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Posted: 6/15/2014 6:42:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2014 10:26:59 AM EDT by ALASKANFIRE]
Just got my two form 1's kicked back and the reason given was "Only Chief Law Enforcement Officer or his/her authorized official may sign."

My confusion you ask??? My form 4 that I sent in at the same time was approved with the same persons signature on it.

Would love to hear some input on what my response should be.


6-19 update

Got a call back from the examiner and he said they will just approve the forms if I send them back in. See last post for better explanation.
Link Posted: 6/15/2014 6:55:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2014 6:56:08 PM EDT by BigWaylon]
You need to call them and have serial number of approved item handy. Any chance the CLEO signed it differently? (Different title, etc) between the forms?
Link Posted: 6/15/2014 7:24:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2014 7:29:24 PM EDT by ALASKANFIRE]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
You need to call them and have serial number of approved item handy. Any chance the CLEO signed it differently? (Different title, etc) between the forms?
View Quote


Same person same day. I cant really see any difference other than the layout is a little different.

Is there any chance they could reverse the form 4??
Link Posted: 6/15/2014 7:41:30 PM EDT
I am assuming it is the same examiner?
Link Posted: 6/15/2014 7:43:26 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 6/15/2014 7:56:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 01SVTSnake:
I am assuming it is the same examiner?
View Quote


How would I know?? The ones they sent back dont have any name on them and the letter doesnt either.
Link Posted: 6/15/2014 10:09:54 PM EDT
Who exactly did you get to sign them? Sheriff, police chief, etc..?
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 4:08:37 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By dvp18:
Who exactly did you get to sign them? Sheriff, police chief, etc..?
View Quote

Took it to the Sheriff and it was whomever he designates to sign for him.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 5:23:08 AM EDT
So I just got off the phone with ATF. He needs something in writing stating that the lady that signed is authorized to do so in behalf of the sheriff. When I asked about my form 4 that was approved with the same signature he said he didn't do it but it should not have been done. He said it is all good but he still needed verification.

Guess it's the old right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. This is a perfect example of why the CLEO signature is bullshit.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 5:25:18 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:

Took it to the Sheriff and it was whomever he designates to sign for him.
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Originally Posted By dvp18:
Who exactly did you get to sign them? Sheriff, police chief, etc..?

Took it to the Sheriff and it was whomever he designates to sign for him.



When ive had the chief deputy sign before he always writes "for chief xxx" beside his name.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 6:03:47 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
So I just got off the phone with ATF. He needs something in writing stating that the lady that signed is authorized to do so in behalf of the sheriff. When I asked about my form 4 that was approved with the same signature he said he didn't do it but it should not have been done. He said it is all good but he still needed verification.

Guess it's the old right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. This is a perfect example of why the CLEO signature is bullshit.
View Quote


Sounds like it should've been more of an error correction letter or a "need more info" letter than a disapproval. Was the actual Disapproved box checked?
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 6:58:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2014 6:58:59 AM EDT by ALASKANFIRE]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BigWaylon:


Sounds like it should've been more of an error correction letter or a "need more info" letter than a disapproval. Was the actual Disapproved box checked?
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
So I just got off the phone with ATF. He needs something in writing stating that the lady that signed is authorized to do so in behalf of the sheriff. When I asked about my form 4 that was approved with the same signature he said he didn't do it but it should not have been done. He said it is all good but he still needed verification.

Guess it's the old right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. This is a perfect example of why the CLEO signature is bullshit.


Sounds like it should've been more of an error correction letter or a "need more info" letter than a disapproval. Was the actual Disapproved box checked?


That is what they did. I improperly used the word disapproval.

I either have to get something in writing authorizing the person that signed my form or have the Sheriff sign them.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 7:12:27 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:


That is what they did. I improperly used the word disapproval.

I either have to get something in writing authorizing the person that signed my form or have the Sheriff sign them.
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
So I just got off the phone with ATF. He needs something in writing stating that the lady that signed is authorized to do so in behalf of the sheriff. When I asked about my form 4 that was approved with the same signature he said he didn't do it but it should not have been done. He said it is all good but he still needed verification.

Guess it's the old right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. This is a perfect example of why the CLEO signature is bullshit.


Sounds like it should've been more of an error correction letter or a "need more info" letter than a disapproval. Was the actual Disapproved box checked?


That is what they did. I improperly used the word disapproval.

I either have to get something in writing authorizing the person that signed my form or have the Sheriff sign them.


Yeah, then it's just not knowing what they are doing, either with the one that was approved, or the one they sent with the correction letter. Seems to be a lot of this going on, I'd guess with the new helpers and or examiners there will be these screw ups. Get the letter, mail it back, you'll have it approved in no time.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 8:35:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2014 8:37:06 AM EDT by RenegadeX]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Guess it's the old right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. This is a perfect example of why the CLEO signature is bullshit.
View Quote


You mean neither you nor the signer understood what this meant in box 13:

By (if delegated authority to sign for the chief law enforcement official) :

Nor did either of you read Instruction 2f, as specified in box 13:

2f: ...If someone has specific delegated authority to sign
on behalf of the Chief of Police, Sheriff, etc., this fact must be noted by
printing the Chief’s, Sheriff’s, or other authorized official’s name and title,
followed by the word “by” and the full signature and title of the delegated
person. Item 13 must be completed for an individual maker. The certification
must be dated no more than one year prior to the date of receipt of the
application
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 10:54:55 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
So I just got off the phone with ATF. He needs something in writing stating that the lady that signed is authorized to do so in behalf of the sheriff. When I asked about my form 4 that was approved with the same signature he said he didn't do it but it should not have been done. He said it is all good but he still needed verification.

Guess it's the old right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. This is a perfect example of why the CLEO signature is bullshit.
View Quote


The NFA process is bullshit. You got lucky with the first one and the examiner used common sense, of course the 2nd has to be the typical ass hole drinking their anti gun bull shit cool aid...
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 11:12:15 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bwhited:


The NFA process is bullshit. You got lucky with the first one and the examiner used common sense, of course the 2nd has to be the typical ass hole drinking their anti gun bull shit cool aid...
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Originally Posted By bwhited:
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
So I just got off the phone with ATF. He needs something in writing stating that the lady that signed is authorized to do so in behalf of the sheriff. When I asked about my form 4 that was approved with the same signature he said he didn't do it but it should not have been done. He said it is all good but he still needed verification.

Guess it's the old right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. This is a perfect example of why the CLEO signature is bullshit.


The NFA process is bullshit. You got lucky with the first one and the examiner used common sense, of course the 2nd has to be the typical ass hole drinking their anti gun bull shit cool aid...

You mean doing their job?
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 1:25:57 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:


You mean neither you nor the signer understood what this meant in box 13:

By (if delegated authority to sign for the chief law enforcement official) :

Nor did either of you read Instruction 2f, as specified in box 13:

2f: ...If someone has specific delegated authority to sign
on behalf of the Chief of Police, Sheriff, etc., this fact must be noted by
printing the Chief’s, Sheriff’s, or other authorized official’s name and title,
followed by the word “by” and the full signature and title of the delegated
person. Item 13 must be completed for an individual maker. The certification
must be dated no more than one year prior to the date of receipt of the
application
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Guess it's the old right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. This is a perfect example of why the CLEO signature is bullshit.


You mean neither you nor the signer understood what this meant in box 13:

By (if delegated authority to sign for the chief law enforcement official) :

Nor did either of you read Instruction 2f, as specified in box 13:

2f: ...If someone has specific delegated authority to sign
on behalf of the Chief of Police, Sheriff, etc., this fact must be noted by
printing the Chief’s, Sheriff’s, or other authorized official’s name and title,
followed by the word “by” and the full signature and title of the delegated
person. Item 13 must be completed for an individual maker. The certification
must be dated no more than one year prior to the date of receipt of the
application

I like how I am to blame. She signed according to their specs and it even says by as instructed.

Just got off the phone with the sheriffs office and apparently the new examiners are to blame according to hem. This particular person has been signing NFA forms for almost 20 years.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 1:27:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By eracer:

You mean doing their job?
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Originally Posted By eracer:
Originally Posted By bwhited:
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
So I just got off the phone with ATF. He needs something in writing stating that the lady that signed is authorized to do so in behalf of the sheriff. When I asked about my form 4 that was approved with the same signature he said he didn't do it but it should not have been done. He said it is all good but he still needed verification.

Guess it's the old right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. This is a perfect example of why the CLEO signature is bullshit.


The NFA process is bullshit. You got lucky with the first one and the examiner used common sense, of course the 2nd has to be the typical ass hole drinking their anti gun bull shit cool aid...

You mean doing their job?

Someone wasn't doing their job and my money is ATF with all the info I currently have. We will see though.

If the first examiner was right the second is wrong. If the second is right the first and the sheriffs office was wrong.

Either way it's just little ole me getting the shaft so I'm sure hey won't lose any sleep
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 2:19:28 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:

I like how I am to blame. She signed according to their specs and it even says by as instructed.
.
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Guess it's the old right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. This is a perfect example of why the CLEO signature is bullshit.


You mean neither you nor the signer understood what this meant in box 13:

By (if delegated authority to sign for the chief law enforcement official) :

Nor did either of you read Instruction 2f, as specified in box 13:

2f: ...If someone has specific delegated authority to sign
on behalf of the Chief of Police, Sheriff, etc., this fact must be noted by
printing the Chief’s, Sheriff’s, or other authorized official’s name and title,
followed by the word “by” and the full signature and title of the delegated
person. Item 13 must be completed for an individual maker. The certification
must be dated no more than one year prior to the date of receipt of the
application

I like how I am to blame. She signed according to their specs and it even says by as instructed.
.


Not blame but a question. Post pic and we will see if it was to spec.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 2:53:25 PM EDT
Are you unable to get a letter from the sheriffs office stating she has the authority so that you're able to get a reversal?
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 5:19:32 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Midas_touch:
Are you unable to get a letter from the sheriffs office stating she has the authority so that you're able to get a reversal?
View Quote

Don't know yet. Person that signed doesn't get back till tomorrow and I can't get over there till Friday.

At this point I am going to request a written letter but it is frustrating to know that they have already been through this several times and this person has been signing forms for longer than I have been voting age.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 5:23:18 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:


Not blame but a question. Post pic and we will see if it was to spec.
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Guess it's the old right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. This is a perfect example of why the CLEO signature is bullshit.


You mean neither you nor the signer understood what this meant in box 13:

By (if delegated authority to sign for the chief law enforcement official) :

Nor did either of you read Instruction 2f, as specified in box 13:

2f: ...If someone has specific delegated authority to sign
on behalf of the Chief of Police, Sheriff, etc., this fact must be noted by
printing the Chief’s, Sheriff’s, or other authorized official’s name and title,
followed by the word “by” and the full signature and title of the delegated
person. Item 13 must be completed for an individual maker. The certification
must be dated no more than one year prior to the date of receipt of the
application

I like how I am to blame. She signed according to their specs and it even says by as instructed.
.


Not blame but a question. Post pic and we will see if it was to spec.



Questions usually have question marks at the end. You made a statement that either one or both of us didn't read the instructions, you did not ask if I had read them.

I always appreciate the help.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 5:37:35 PM EDT
Do you know who the examiner was that said there is an error? My guess is it's one of the new ones. I would email Mr. Schaible (Gary.N.Schaible@usdoj.gov) and tell him you think you wrongfully received an error letter and see if he can look into it? Might be worth a try...
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 6:51:52 PM EDT
The NFA is sending out error letters like crazy. If they would take two seconds to check out the reason they are sending the error letter out for, they could probably see there is no error to begin with. I bet error letters have increased 75% in the last year and a half. Something has changed up there, have no idea what..... I do know that the OP would not have received an error letter for BS like this 2 years ago.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 7:41:51 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dvp18:
Do you know who the examiner was that said there is an error? My guess is it's one of the new ones. I would email Mr. Schaible (Gary.N.Schaible@usdoj.gov) and tell him you think you wrongfully received an error letter and see if he can look into it? Might be worth a try...
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Originally Posted By dvp18:
Do you know who the examiner was that said there is an error? My guess is it's one of the new ones. I would email Mr. Schaible (Gary.N.Schaible@usdoj.gov) and tell him you think you wrongfully received an error letter and see if he can look into it? Might be worth a try...


The lady at the Sheriffs office had the same opinion. Said they have a bunch of new people and have had lots of problems. The gentleman I talked to was named Jason. Who is Gary Schaible? Is he a supervisor? I dont really want to piss off my examiner if I can avoid it.
Originally Posted By bwhited:
The NFA is sending out error letters like crazy. If they would take two seconds to check out the reason they are sending the error letter out for, they could probably see there is no error to begin with. I bet error letters have increased 75% in the last year and a half. Something has changed up there, have no idea what..... I do know that the OP would not have received an error letter for BS like this 2 years ago.

That sucks. I hope I can get this cleared up friday. Just all seems so silly.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 7:55:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2014 9:10:18 AM EDT by ALASKANFIRE]
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 8:52:31 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:

The lady at the Sheriffs office had the same opinion. Said they have a bunch of new people and have had lots of problems. The gentleman I talked to was named Jason. Who is Gary Schaible? Is he a supervisor? I dont really want to piss off my examiner if I can avoid it.
.
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He is the director or supervisor or some kind of authority, not an examiner.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 9:15:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By dvp18:


He is the director or supervisor or some kind of authority, not an examiner.
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Originally Posted By dvp18:
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:

The lady at the Sheriffs office had the same opinion. Said they have a bunch of new people and have had lots of problems. The gentleman I talked to was named Jason. Who is Gary Schaible? Is he a supervisor? I dont really want to piss off my examiner if I can avoid it.
.


He is the director or supervisor or some kind of authority, not an examiner.


Gotcha. Maybe I will shoot him a email. Left a message for my examiner so I am interested to hear what he has to say.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 9:50:54 PM EDT
Can't hurt, they already have it in error so the worst they can do is make you fix it. You might get lucky and get it approved instead.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 9:57:35 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By dvp18:
Can't hurt, they already have it in error so the worst they can do is make you fix it. You might get lucky and get it approved instead.
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I would at least have to send the forms back to them
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:14:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2014 8:16:19 AM EDT by Southern_Raider]
You and I get our forms approved at the same place. All I can say is that not only is the top picture posted correct per ATF standards (it shows delegation) it also resembles every form I've ever received out of that office including the form I just received this week.

The bottom picture is technically signed by the records manager in place of the sheriff and is not correct. I've never had a form come out of the Washoe County Sheriff's office looking like this. Somebody at the WCSO screwed the pooch in my opinion.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:26:17 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Southern_Raider:
You and I get our forms approved at the same place. All I can say is that not only is the top picture posted correct per ATF standards (it shows delegation) it also resembles every form I've ever received out of that office including the form I just received this week.

The bottom picture is technically signed by the records manager in place of the sheriff and is not correct. I've never had a form come out of the Washoe County Sheriff's office looking like this. Somebody at the WCSO screwed the pooch in my opinion.
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Mine looks identical to the posted pics. I guess I'll find out in 6 months


Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:53:20 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By HK94dude:
Mine looks identical to the posted pics. I guess I'll find out in 6 months
View Quote

Which pic?
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 11:17:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2014 11:17:54 AM EDT by HK94dude]
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Originally Posted By Southern_Raider:

Which pic?
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Originally Posted By Southern_Raider:
Originally Posted By HK94dude:
Mine looks identical to the posted pics. I guess I'll find out in 6 months

Which pic?

both the WCSO pics have the same signature


Link Posted: 6/17/2014 11:45:31 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By HK94dude:


both the WCSO pics have the same signature


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Originally Posted By HK94dude:
Originally Posted By Southern_Raider:
Originally Posted By HK94dude:
Mine looks identical to the posted pics. I guess I'll find out in 6 months

Which pic?


both the WCSO pics have the same signature



Understood, but look a bit closer at my earlier post. The top picture is done correctly as Patricia the sheriff's designee is signing. The bottom is wrong because Patricia the record keeper is signing for the sheriff.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 12:37:31 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Southern_Raider:

Understood, but look a bit closer at my earlier post. The top picture is done correctly as Patricia the sheriff's designee is signing. The bottom is wrong because Patricia the record keeper is signing for the sheriff.
View Quote


The bottom pic only shows the delegation box. He did not show the top portion of box 13 where the CLEO or designate signs.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 12:57:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2014 12:59:37 PM EDT by Southern_Raider]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:


The bottom pic only shows the delegation box. He did not show the top portion of box 13 where the CLEO or designate signs.
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By Southern_Raider:

Understood, but look a bit closer at my earlier post. The top picture is done correctly as Patricia the sheriff's designee is signing. The bottom is wrong because Patricia the record keeper is signing for the sheriff.


The bottom pic only shows the delegation box. He did not show the top portion of box 13 where the CLEO or designate signs.


I did a double take and had to look again. The top pic is of a Form 4 and the bottom pic is of a form 1, which I missed and explains why they look so different. You are correct in that some info was left out of the second picture, but the designee spot does indeed appear correctly filled in. I guess I no longer see why this may have been rejected, but I do wonder what was in section 13.

It's been a long time since I did a form 1.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 2:26:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:


The bottom pic only shows the delegation box. He did not show the top portion of box 13 where the CLEO or designate signs.
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By Southern_Raider:

Understood, but look a bit closer at my earlier post. The top picture is done correctly as Patricia the sheriff's designee is signing. The bottom is wrong because Patricia the record keeper is signing for the sheriff.


The bottom pic only shows the delegation box. He did not show the top portion of box 13 where the CLEO or designate signs.

So it is right it wrong?

4 got approved 1's got bounced.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 2:28:16 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:

So it is right it wrong?

4 got approved 1's got bounced.
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By Southern_Raider:

Understood, but look a bit closer at my earlier post. The top picture is done correctly as Patricia the sheriff's designee is signing. The bottom is wrong because Patricia the record keeper is signing for the sheriff.


The bottom pic only shows the delegation box. He did not show the top portion of box 13 where the CLEO or designate signs.

So it is right it wrong?

4 got approved 1's got bounced.


Don't know need to see all of box 13.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 3:59:09 PM EDT
LE me look when I get home. I folded it there because I think it had some of my info on it and I didn't feel like editing it out
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 5:53:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2014 9:06:23 AM EDT by ALASKANFIRE]
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 6:03:01 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Sorry I can't figure out how to flip this image using my phone. I can try when I get home.
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Well that is not even signed, much less signed incorrectly. How did you miss that?
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 7:04:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2014 7:05:06 AM EDT by ALASKANFIRE]
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:


Well that is not even signed, much less signed incorrectly. How did you miss that?
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Sorry I can't figure out how to flip this image using my phone. I can try when I get home.


Well that is not even signed, much less signed incorrectly. How did you miss that?

She signed the spot that says BY which is for the designated signee.

What else is that section for?

ATF didn't say it was signed in the wrong place only that they didn't know she was able to sign.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 7:08:00 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:

She signed the spot that says BY which is for the designated signee.

What else is that section for?

ATF didn't say it was signed in the wrong place only that they didn't know she was able to sign.
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Sorry I can't figure out how to flip this image using my phone. I can try when I get home.


Well that is not even signed, much less signed incorrectly. How did you miss that?

She signed the spot that says BY which is for the designated signee.

What else is that section for?

ATF didn't say it was signed in the wrong place only that they didn't know she was able to sign.


The directions state:

If someone has specific delegated authority to sign on behalf of the Chief of Police, Sheriff, etc., this fact must be noted by printing the Chief’s, Sheriff’s, or other authorized official’s name and title, followed by the word “by” and the full signature and title of the delegated person. Item 13 must be completed for an individual maker. The certification must be dated no more than one year prior to the date of receipt of the application.

The part in bold is not done on the form 1, but it is done on the form 4 you posted previously.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 7:11:12 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:


Well that is not even signed, much less signed incorrectly. How did you miss that?
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Sorry I can't figure out how to flip this image using my phone. I can try when I get home.


Well that is not even signed, much less signed incorrectly. How did you miss that?


I had to go look at my last form 1 from 2009, and it was done just as pictured and accepted (Granted that was awhile ago). A form 1 has two signature lines, one for CLEO and one for the designee, one of which would always be unused. Contrast that to a form 4 with a single signature line used by the CLEO or designee as required.

If we think this most recent picture is incorrect, how should it have been done given that the CLEO is not actually signing?
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 7:20:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2014 7:21:20 AM EDT by RenegadeX]
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Originally Posted By Southern_Raider:

If we think this most recent picture is incorrect, how should it have been done given that the CLEO is not actually signing?
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Not to be an ass, but the directions are quite clear:

If someone has specific delegated authority to sign on behalf of the Chief of Police, Sheriff, etc., this fact must be noted by printing the Chief’s, Sheriff’s, or other authorized official’s name and title, followed by the word “by” and the full signature and title of the delegated person. Item 13 must be completed for an individual maker. The certification must be dated no more than one year prior to the date of receipt of the application.

All I see is the printed name and title of the Sheriff, I do not see "by" followed by a signature/title of the delegate like on the form 4.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 7:31:46 AM EDT
What happened with your reject is that the person did not sign in the correct capacity and the person who signed the forms did so in their capacity as records manager. There is a big difference between

CLEO by CDE, Records Manager

and

CDE, Records Manager

They filled out the correct portion where they state their individual information but they did not Sign on behalf of the CLEO, therefore the CLEO did not sign your form.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 7:41:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2014 7:42:57 AM EDT by Southern_Raider]
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:


Not to be an ass, but the directions are quite clear:

If someone has specific delegated authority to sign on behalf of the Chief of Police, Sheriff, etc., this fact must be noted by printing the Chief’s, Sheriff’s, or other authorized official’s name and title, followed by the word “by” and the full signature and title of the delegated person. Item 13 must be completed for an individual maker. The certification must be dated no more than one year prior to the date of receipt of the application.

All I see is the printed name and title of the Sheriff, I do not see "by" followed by a signature/title of the delegate like on the form 4.
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By Southern_Raider:

If we think this most recent picture is incorrect, how should it have been done given that the CLEO is not actually signing?


Not to be an ass, but the directions are quite clear:

If someone has specific delegated authority to sign on behalf of the Chief of Police, Sheriff, etc., this fact must be noted by printing the Chief’s, Sheriff’s, or other authorized official’s name and title, followed by the word “by” and the full signature and title of the delegated person. Item 13 must be completed for an individual maker. The certification must be dated no more than one year prior to the date of receipt of the application.

All I see is the printed name and title of the Sheriff, I do not see "by" followed by a signature/title of the delegate like on the form 4.


I am quite possibly nitpicking here, but the Form 1 itself has that "BY" printed on the form itself (By (if delegated authority to sign for the chief law enforcement official:)) along with a different signature location for a designee. The Form 4 is physically laid out differently and requires the designee to actually enter the "BY".

Are we saying that this statement has to be placed in yet a different place on a form 1 even though the form already incudes it?
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 8:20:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2014 8:21:41 AM EDT by ALASKANFIRE]
Can one of you explain why that was not pointed out in the error letter? The letter and examiner both stated the only problem was who signed not where.

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Originally Posted By Southern_Raider:


I am quite possibly nitpicking here, but the Form 1 itself has that "BY" printed on the form itself (By (if delegated authority to sign for the chief law enforcement official:)) along with a different signature location for a designee. The Form 4 is physically laid out differently and requires the designee to actually enter the "BY".

Are we saying that this statement has to be placed in yet a different place on a form 1 even though the form already incudes it?
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Originally Posted By Southern_Raider:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By Southern_Raider:

If we think this most recent picture is incorrect, how should it have been done given that the CLEO is not actually signing?


Not to be an ass, but the directions are quite clear:

If someone has specific delegated authority to sign on behalf of the Chief of Police, Sheriff, etc., this fact must be noted by printing the Chief’s, Sheriff’s, or other authorized official’s name and title, followed by the word “by” and the full signature and title of the delegated person. Item 13 must be completed for an individual maker. The certification must be dated no more than one year prior to the date of receipt of the application.

All I see is the printed name and title of the Sheriff, I do not see "by" followed by a signature/title of the delegate like on the form 4.


I am quite possibly nitpicking here, but the Form 1 itself has that "BY" printed on the form itself (By (if delegated authority to sign for the chief law enforcement official:)) along with a different signature location for a designee. The Form 4 is physically laid out differently and requires the designee to actually enter the "BY".

Are we saying that this statement has to be placed in yet a different place on a form 1 even though the form already incudes it?

That's what got me, it already says by right on the form. Unlike the form 4 it has a specific place to sign rather than signing the same block and stating by.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 9:14:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2014 10:00:50 AM EDT by Presto97sl]
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Can one of you explain why that was not pointed out in the error letter? The letter and examiner both stated the only problem was who signed not where.


That's what got me, it already says by right on the form. Unlike the form 4 it has a specific place to sign rather than signing the same block and stating by.
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Can one of you explain why that was not pointed out in the error letter? The letter and examiner both stated the only problem was who signed not where.

Originally Posted By Southern_Raider:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By Southern_Raider:

If we think this most recent picture is incorrect, how should it have been done given that the CLEO is not actually signing?


Not to be an ass, but the directions are quite clear:

If someone has specific delegated authority to sign on behalf of the Chief of Police, Sheriff, etc., this fact must be noted by printing the Chief’s, Sheriff’s, or other authorized official’s name and title, followed by the word “by” and the full signature and title of the delegated person. Item 13 must be completed for an individual maker. The certification must be dated no more than one year prior to the date of receipt of the application.


All I see is the printed name and title of the Sheriff, I do not see "by" followed by a signature/title of the delegate like on the form 4.


I am quite possibly nitpicking here, but the Form 1 itself has that "BY" printed on the form itself (By (if delegated authority to sign for the chief law enforcement official:)) along with a different signature location for a designee. The Form 4 is physically laid out differently and requires the designee to actually enter the "BY".

Are we saying that this statement has to be placed in yet a different place on a form 1 even though the form already incudes it?

That's what got me, it already says by right on the form. Unlike the form 4 it has a specific place to sign rather than signing the same block and stating by.





Your problem is this signature spot is blank. It should contain this information Michael Haley, Sherriff by /s/ Patricia Kelly /s/, Records Manager. The /s/ portion means signature. It should look just like your form 4 does.

picture removed per OP request.

Link Posted: 6/18/2014 9:20:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2014 9:20:52 AM EDT by ALASKANFIRE]
Hen why does it have a whole separate block for someone the sheriff designates to sign??? It says BY right in front of her name.
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