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Posted: 12/2/2020 7:36:21 PM EDT
I'm setting up a rifle for shooting under nods. I am trying to decide which RDS to put on a high mount: Eotech 512, Aimpoint T1, or Trijicon MRO. I've heard that the T1 doesn't let much light through and is difficult to actually "see" through the optic with a PVS-14.

I'm planning to test them out (tonight or tomorrow night?) but wanted to hear some thoughts on the subject from people who shoot passively through RDS.
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 7:55:18 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't think the 512 has a NV mode? I use the MRO as that is what I had prior to getting into NV and it works fine for me. I think more people prefer the EXPS to the MRO, but I will let others with experience with both to chime in over that.
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 8:01:45 PM EDT
[#2]
I tried out my MRO and it worked well.
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 8:04:13 PM EDT
[#3]
I have my MRO on a 1.93 mount and it works very well.
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 8:10:25 PM EDT
[#4]
I have an EXPS3 and MRO. I like the EXPS better.

The 512 doesn't have NV setting.
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 8:17:14 PM EDT
[#5]
I have an EOTech EXPS and an Aimpoint T1.
For daytime I prefer the EOTech but the reticle seems too busy for night time use.
I prefer the T1 for the night and I can see through it fine (lets plenty of light in).
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 8:18:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I don't think the 512 has a NV mode? I use the MRO as that is what I had prior to getting into NV and it works fine for me. I think more people prefer the EXPS to the MRO, but I will let others with experience with both to chime in over that.
View Quote


what does NV mode actually mean?
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 8:32:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


what does NV mode actually mean?
View Quote


Lower powered setting, better for image intensifier tubes.
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 8:34:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


what does NV mode actually mean?
View Quote


Low power mode. I can say that my MRO on lowest normal vision mode might as well be off when using the naked eye, but with NV it is like staring into the sun. I use the lowest NV setting.
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 8:35:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


what does NV mode actually mean?
View Quote

it means that the red dot is turned down very low as to be usable with NV goggles.  "day time use only" red dots will not dim enough to be properly used with NVGs.  the dot will be too bright.  with an NV mode, the lowest settings may not be even seen without NVGs on.

some of my aimpoints, the first three clicks aren't even visible to the naked eye but they are bright enough for NVG use.
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 8:41:44 PM EDT
[#10]
Hands down the EOTech EXPS3-0 has been the best passive viewer I have used or seen.  Have it on a full length Hahn Engineering 1/2" riser.
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 8:45:24 PM EDT
[#11]
I have been using a RMR on top of a LPVO. That isn't on your list, but may be something to consider.
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 8:45:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Hands down the EOTech EXPS3-0 has been the best passive viewer I have used or seen.  Have it on a full length Hahn Engineering 1/2" riser.
View Quote


Not disputing, but what makes it the best?

Just got my first NV device a few months ago. The only sight I've used passively with it so far is an Aimpoint T2.
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 9:01:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have been using a RMR on top of a LPVO. That isn't on your list, but may be something to consider.
View Quote



This works well for me, i have the larue ring half mount.

Aimpoint pro's are still awesome at night.
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 9:04:59 PM EDT
[#14]
The eotech reticle on my exps 3 is very nice under night vision.  Its significantly more clean under the nods then when i look through it during the day.
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 9:59:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


what does NV mode actually mean?
View Quote

Settings for viewing under NODs, but absolutely nothing on the MRO since you can't see the dot on #1 setting. You can use any RDS on the lowest setting, just don't stare at it for long lengths of time of it will burn a spot onto your tube.

OP: I used MRO and T1 and never had a problem shooting through the tube. Also with an infinity focus all you're going to see is a shadow of your RDS tube and a dot floating in space.

I prefer Comp series Aimpoints for their battery life, rapid rolling pot switches and bomb proof housings.
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 10:40:58 PM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 11:33:33 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 11:55:21 PM EDT
[#18]
I have looked through Exps3 and it is excellent for nvg use, no doubt.

I've got a couple Aimpoint Pros, just my personal preference for all-around use and they're good too, just a hair darker I think. Put em on a 1.93" mount.
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 12:24:33 AM EDT
[#19]
EoTech EXPS is best. Big optic window is forgiving, lets most light through, and an important feature nobody has mentioned yet can go from low light to NV settings at the push of a button and back. This is a really nice feature IMO.

I honestly love the MRO from the sight picture standpoint for NV because it has a nice big front lens for light, as well as multiple NV settings, but the downside is it has more noticeable parallax. It's not actually a concern in my opinion for shooting (though I would obviously prefer it be less), the issue is that if you want to use a converging zero method on IR devices as I do, you don't want parallax coming into complicate things as the advantage of converging zero is the simplicity and quickness you can zero lasers.

Link Posted: 12/3/2020 12:41:38 AM EDT
[#20]
I've only used NODs once and my only point of reference is looking through my Holosun 403. It was pretty much black. Do the Aimpoints let more light through?
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 2:26:29 AM EDT
[#21]
The Eotech 512 has night vision settings, just no special NV button. The lowest setting isn’t visible, but shows up perfectly under nods.

I tried out all three. The Eotech’s window is amazing to look through. The MRO is pretty nice. I brought out a Holosun 503 instead of the Aimpoint, but I didn’t like it nearly as much as the MRO. The Eotech was the clear winner.
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 9:31:03 AM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 9:34:52 AM EDT
[#23]
Comp M5 on a Unity Fast mount or an Eotech EXPS3 on a fast mount.  The new UH1 will be my next one for my scorpion to try.
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 9:46:11 AM EDT
[#24]
Well this has been pretty much answered but I'll try and gob on a bit further.   The reason I say the EXPS3-0 is "the best" is because that big square window lets in so much more light as the man said.  When you use a micro dot, you pretty much only see the reticle and not much else around it.  So if the target is big enough to just super-impose the reticle and shoot, good to go, but if not, the large window lets you see the scene around it.  So first of all, what you can see, looking through the sight, is a much larger picture of things.  Then it's a matter of lining everything up, with a head-mounted NVD, and a rifle-mounted RDS.  Any round tube optic is going to take more work.  The "TV" screen is much more forgiving in this regard.  Especially a rapidly moving, more dynamic engagement.  And I think the coatings on EOTech lenses are more transparent for this work than some other types.  I have a Holosun on a back up rifle that I really like, but they are not as good at this because of the difference in coatings I suspect.  On this specific model, I believe the mount is slightly higher, so when when combined with some sort of riser, you are getting a higher over-all set up which makes getting behind it that much easier.  And yeah, it is nice to have a pre-set NV setting on one push, so you can instantly switch up to NV, or go back white light.  So while most any RDS will work, to one degree or another, if you are wanting to set up a night fighting rifle with passive capability, I would say this RDS is the best, IMHO.  But of course you have EOTech haters so some folks ain't a-gonna use them.  But if we're talking about what RDS is physically the best fit for this purpose, then there it is.
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 10:38:33 AM EDT
[#25]
I like the T2 on a Unity. Hate the MRO.
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 11:12:44 AM EDT
[#26]
I like the Aimpoint T2 very much. Passes plenty of light, doesn't block much of the downrange scene with a big block of metal surrounding the optical parts (if you ditch the flip-open lens covers) and I prefer the rotating brightness knob to the EOTech pushbutton setup. You can crank that Aimpoint knob to the setting you want, and know that it is set they way you want, before you even start.
Have an EOTech too and it is a great sight because of the 1 moa dot and 65 moa circle. The mushy rubber push button  control just isn't as positive and isn't "pre-settable" to the same degree.

The Aimpoint will run for months on a battery, too, while the EOTech shuts off automatically and requires you (for NV) to press two buttons at once to wake it in the NV mode. Not infrequently, my button press timing is wrong and it wakes in daylight mode - much too bright.

That said, the EOTech is a great sight too.
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 11:44:14 AM EDT
[#27]
EXPS3-0 for me
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 1:16:00 PM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 1:44:48 PM EDT
[#29]
Eotech is pretty much the cats ass for NV use. It also happens to be kinda a shitty optic all around in my opinion, aside from that one strong point. I chose to use a Aimpoint because none of my rifles are strictly for night use
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 2:03:07 PM EDT
[#30]
An Eotech with NV button is hands down the best for this.

If you want a tube (or hate Eotech), then fullsize Aimpoint (Comp/PRO series). I haven't tried an MRO for this.

RMRs are nice too, but not in fully passive mode. With an IR illuminator or Vampire light, the hood of the RMR disappears in the NODS and the dot looks like its floating.

I hate small tube sights like T-series for passive NVG use.

Link Posted: 12/3/2020 10:46:05 PM EDT
[#31]
I’ve mounted my Eotech on a Unity riser to get it up high. It looks a little awkward compared to a T1 or MRO, but it sure does work well. Thanks for all the comments.
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 10:59:43 PM EDT
[#32]
This begs the question, why hasn’t Eotech made a taller optic option.
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 10:59:48 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
An Eotech with NV button is hands down the best for this.

If you want a tube (or hate Eotech), then fullsize Aimpoint (Comp/PRO series). I haven't tried an MRO for this.

RMRs are nice too, but not in fully passive mode. With an IR illuminator or Vampire light, the hood of the RMR disappears in the NODS and the dot looks like its floating.

I hate small tube sights like T-series for passive NVG use.

View Quote

Does the pro work as well as the comp series for passive? I used to have a m4s that I really liked and I’m thinking of picking up another one or a pro.
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 11:28:10 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This begs the question, why hasn’t Eotech made a taller optic option.
View Quote

They hate us?
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 11:55:52 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Does the pro work as well as the comp series for passive? I used to have a m4s that I really liked and I’m thinking of picking up another one or a pro.
View Quote

The PRO is part of the Comp series AimPoints and it's probably the best value for the money.
Link Posted: 12/4/2020 2:00:27 AM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This begs the question, why hasn’t Eotech made a taller optic option.
View Quote


The costs involved with designing and manufacturing a whole new optic body. They probably don't see a need for it for it as majority of people are using 1.5 to lower 1/3 height, then if more height is needed just purchase an aftermarket rail riser.
Link Posted: 12/4/2020 2:18:13 AM EDT
[#37]
I’m new to night vision, but here is my thinking on why I went with the EXPS 3-0 and someone in the know please feel free to point out where I’m wrong.

I figured any optic that was tinted would not transmit light through it as effectively as the more clear EOTech. NVGs amplify available light , right? So I want as much light as possible coming through the optic if I’m shooting passively.

Edit: I see the tint had already been covered above.
Link Posted: 12/4/2020 9:27:27 AM EDT
[#38]
Yeah the coatings have been gone over in previous posts.  As Augee said, the EOTech has much better coatings/light transmission.

On heights, yeah I think the EXPS3 is a bit taller, although I don't have the specs.  It sure was a lot taller than the Holosun; I bought the spacer for it and it was still significantly lower than a stock EOTech.  

Well I guess it's like anything else, they're making the height the vast majority will use, and then folks like UT, KA, ADM, and MI fill in the gaps.

What would you wager the percentage of guys like us, with a passive NV rifle set up, vs the Gen Pop out there?
Link Posted: 12/4/2020 12:27:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Link Posted: 12/4/2020 1:08:58 PM EDT
[#40]
553 here. Going to order a HAHN Precision riser that someone mentioned above.

My MRO dot seems to turn into a worm through my PVS-14. It’s a early unit, maybe that’s why? I’ll try it again tonight.
Link Posted: 12/4/2020 3:00:50 PM EDT
[#41]
Exps3 or a T2/M5 on Unity mounts. KAC and Reptilia work well too.
Link Posted: 12/4/2020 6:14:53 PM EDT
[#42]
Yeah I'm really happy with the Hahn Precision.  It uses full, slide on rails, and set screws to tighten it up vertically against upper rail.  Pretty slick; no protruding hardware.  And since it's full length, you can still get a 3x mag behind it.  I don't know what cumulative height is with EXPS3, but you can get a -14 behind it, no sweat.  Binos better still.
Link Posted: 12/9/2020 8:13:47 AM EDT
[#43]
Has anyone tried the Vortex UH-1 Gen 2 under NV?
Link Posted: 12/9/2020 10:29:09 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yeah I'm really happy with the Hahn Precision.  It uses full, slide on rails, and set screws to tighten it up vertically against upper rail.  Pretty slick; no protruding hardware.  And since it's full length, you can still get a 3x mag behind it.  I don't know what cumulative height is with EXPS3, but you can get a -14 behind it, no sweat.  Binos better still.
View Quote


Which version do you have? Is there room for front and rear buis?
Link Posted: 12/9/2020 11:53:01 AM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Has anyone tried the Vortex UH-1 Gen 2 under NV?
View Quote

And are they significantly better than a $350 PRO
Link Posted: 12/9/2020 12:07:01 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Has anyone tried the Vortex UH-1 Gen 2 under NV?
View Quote


Mine will be here in a few days. From what I've seen looks comparable to an eotech.
Link Posted: 12/9/2020 12:28:55 PM EDT
[#47]
EOTech is hands-down the best when it comes to use with NODs.
Link Posted: 12/9/2020 4:09:32 PM EDT
[#48]
I have the full-length Hahn rail, which fits the upper rail, end to end.  Yes there is plenty room for a rear BUIS, and 3x mag, but you need a short 3-slot, 1/2" riser, like the Burris for the front sight.  Since I have RDS, viz laser, and IR laser, I have dropped the BUIS's on this rifle.  YMMV.
Link Posted: 12/9/2020 5:16:44 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Has anyone tried the Vortex UH-1 Gen 2 under NV?
View Quote



I think that's what I'm going with when my CMMG Bolt/Carrier and Barrel arrive in 3 years...

As to coatings - they seem to matter a lot if running a Monacle - they seem to not matter when running Binos, as the other eye/device just fills in everything.
Link Posted: 12/9/2020 6:00:11 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have the full-length Hahn rail, which fits the upper rail, end to end.  Yes there is plenty room for a rear BUIS, and 3x mag, but you need a short 3-slot, 1/2" riser, like the Burris for the front sight.  Since I have RDS, viz laser, and IR laser, I have dropped the BUIS's on this rifle.  YMMV.
View Quote
I did see that Hahn has a riser rail with an integrated rear sight.
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