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Posted: 9/9/2018 12:40:58 AM EDT
Ok this thing looks absolutely awesome. Does anyone have one? They aren't even that expensive. Well... sorta, I'm seeing some dealers apparently are already playing games with the pricing, but that'll self-correct soon enough.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:LXNjsTGlmRAJ:https://dkfirearms.com/product/panzer-arms-bp-12-bullpup-shotgun-12ga/%3Fadd_to_wishlist%3D365+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Link Posted: 9/9/2018 8:34:08 AM EDT
First I have heard of it. Get some 10rd mags and if it's reliable and durable I'm very interested.
Link Posted: 9/9/2018 12:43:23 PM EDT
Looks like it takes AR grips which is cool.

Only thing I see that might be an issue is the charging handle. A non reciprocating charging handle farther forward would be preferred but maybe you can use aftermarket AR handles too.
Link Posted: 9/9/2018 6:27:47 PM EDT
Saw it posted on dun.deals but found there is no info on it beyond the seller's site. Are Turkish shotguns gtg?
Link Posted: 9/10/2018 11:30:02 PM EDT
Price has been updated. Its not a bad price at all. Added to the list along with

http://www.uzkon.com.tr/Uzkon_Product/details.php?id=808

and this

https://www.classicfirearms.com/tristar-25122-bullpup-12g-20-5rd

The tristar is actually a KRAL 12 compact. Cool stuff!
Link Posted: 9/10/2018 11:42:17 PM EDT
You know, I was expecting something dumb, but that actually looks pretty neat. If it works well that may end up being a pretty nifty little shotgun.
Link Posted: 9/11/2018 8:09:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2018 8:10:36 AM EDT by zedsdead]
Apparently you can use MKA 1919 mags, so there's a pretty robust aftermarket supply.
Link Posted: 9/12/2018 12:31:45 AM EDT
definitely like the innovation on shotgun bullpups, i have a ksg and it works fine, but ideally would like a reliable semi-auto!

anyone have experience with mag fed shotguns? i was concerned about shells deforming and causing cycling issues if the gun sat for awhile with loaded mags for HD.
Link Posted: 9/12/2018 1:43:01 AM EDT
Yes, the first (and possibly second) shell usually will deform if the mag is inserted against a closed bolt and left to rest for a week or more. That's due to the shells being soft at the front.

S&B buckshot doesn't deform as much because they roll crimp over a circular plastic disc, so it retains its shape better. I left a 10rd mag loaded in a VEPR-12 for 4 months to see what would happen, and it still fed.
Link Posted: 9/12/2018 8:17:57 AM EDT
Are there full length brass shotshells available?
Link Posted: 9/12/2018 8:27:22 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By backbencher:
Are there full length brass shotshells available?
View Quote
Magtech makes some.
Link Posted: 9/13/2018 7:23:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By commoncents:
definitely like the innovation on shotgun bullpups, i have a ksg and it works fine, but ideally would like a reliable semi-auto!

anyone have experience with mag fed shotguns? i was concerned about shells deforming and causing cycling issues if the gun sat for awhile with loaded mags for HD.
View Quote
great info, thanks!
Link Posted: 9/13/2018 11:36:27 PM EDT
If your SG has bolt hold open, that's an option too. I do that for my Saigas with the notch.

Also, using a slug for the top round works.
Link Posted: 9/13/2018 11:50:31 PM EDT
Interesting. Is that a Magpul AFG1 on there, or their knockoff of it? Betting Magpul could have some fun with patent infringement if they wanted to do so.
Link Posted: 9/29/2018 4:31:51 PM EDT
Idk if anyone is still interested but I ordered one of these a few days ago. When I get it I can make a mini review of it in this thread if anyone is interested.
Link Posted: 9/29/2018 4:48:35 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WatermelonAssassin:
Idk if anyone is still interested but I ordered one of these a few days ago. When I get it I can make a mini review of it in this thread if anyone is interested.
View Quote
Please do. This is the first time I’ve ever heard of these and they actually looks pretty nice.
Link Posted: 9/29/2018 5:45:19 PM EDT
Saw one in person at a local gun shop. Seems pretty decent.

I want one..it's on my short list

Would love to see a review here.

So tagged.
Link Posted: 9/29/2018 10:03:30 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jblomenberg16:
Interesting. Is that a Magpul AFG1 on there, or their knockoff of it? Betting Magpul could have some fun with patent infringement if they wanted to do so.
View Quote
I'm not sure if they're fakes or the real thing, but both the AFG *and* the BUIS that are provided are spitting images of the Magpul offerings.
Link Posted: 9/29/2018 10:08:36 PM EDT
I'm reposting this from my post over on the BPF...

Brought mine home on Thursday. Overall, I'm pretty impressed with it and if it is reliable, it'll make a good choice for defending the hut. There are some things I wasn't 100% thrilled with, however.

1. Weight. It's a heavy beast and feels heavier than my Benelli M4 and my MDR. However, once shouldered, it seems to just "fit" and lock in.

2. Trigger. The trigger does feel a bit heavy, but in a defensive situation, I'm not sure I'd notice. Still, it is something to consider if you're going to use this for more sporting purposes to put Daffy or Bugs on a dish for dinner.

3. Sling mount points. This one is probably the most annoying nit I have to pick. There are QD points on the forward 1913 rail sections (I really wish they would have carved them off and gone to M-Lok and saved a few ounces), but there aren't any QD mounts on the rear of the shotgun. There is a loop molded into the stock's heel, but I hate those as the firearm never lays right when I sling it and it really destroys a lot of the utility a 2 point adjustable sling like the Ferro Concepts Slingster brings to the table.

4. No choke tubes. This is a "what you get is all you get" barrel, and I hope that either the aftermarket or the manufacturer brings out a replacement barrel that will allow the use of a common pattern choke tube. However, this is a really minor issue and not something that would influence me if I were to buy another, it's more like a "want to have" instead of a "have to have".

That said, there are some things that I really like.

1. Two magazines. They could have shipped one, but shipped two which was a nice surprise.

2. BUIS and AFG that are either OEM from Magpul or knockoffs. If they are knockoffs, then they're damned good ones. The AFG really helps lock the shotgun into your shoulder and feels more natural for your support hand given the short foreend.

3. Tools. You get a cleaning kit and a take down wrench that looks like it could be used to remove a receiver extension nut as well.

4. Multiple ways to charge the shotgun. From the factory, the shotgun has a right side charging handle and an AR pattern charging handle. I'm not sure if a normal AR charging handle will fit, if I get bored this weekend I might give it a try. If it doesn't fit, I'd be curious to see if an AR-10 charging handle would fit. Either the side charging handle (which reciprocates, but appears that it doesn't need to be installed for proper function) or the AR handle can be used to load the shotgun. The side charging handle may be repositioned to the left side if the user desires.

That's about it until I have a chance to shoot it.

To add:

Someone asked whether the grip was "AR compatible". I'm not sure, but after looking at the illustrated parts diagram and doing a side by side comparison with an AR, I would have to say that they are either directly compatible or can be "filed to fit" compatible. I guess you could add this to a "wish it was different" list, but I sort of wish that the grip was more vertical than raked in the A2 style because my wrist sometimes hits the overly flared magwell. It isn't a deal breaker, just one of those ergonomic improvements that could be done. That said, I might absolutely hate it with a more vertical grip, so who knows?
Link Posted: 9/29/2018 10:09:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2018 10:11:24 PM EDT by HK_DUDE]
The AFG on the shotgun is not a magpul, it is a cheaply made knock off. I noticed that right away. I am only referring to the one I saw.

I did snap a quick pic, so I could remember price. It was a bit steep compared to what I am seeing online...but it was there in real life...haha.

It has some sort of barrel shroud/fake suppressor on it.

The pic doesn't show much...sorry.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 9/29/2018 10:54:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2018 10:55:26 PM EDT by WatermelonAssassin]
I will post a review when I get mine in. I can add more to what has already been said, maybe get some accurate weights, and I will try to test the shotgun with a few different loads to see how it functions, including cheap Walmart bulk box and some Federal LE tru-ball slugs. If anyone has anything specific they would like me to test or try please let me know and I will try to arrange it. I will also try to take more detailed photos, see if the grip is actually compatible with a Magpul and standard A2 grip, and see if the barrel can be drilled for chokes (potential Salvo 12 compatibility?). As I said before if anyone wants to know, see, or for me to shoot anything specific let me know.
Link Posted: 9/30/2018 11:56:37 AM EDT
Briley can do chokes.
Link Posted: 9/30/2018 1:14:45 PM EDT
Is this shotgun compatible with left handers?
Link Posted: 9/30/2018 1:22:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:
Is this shotgun compatible with left handers?
View Quote
Saw two Panzers at a gun show today and it seems somewhat lefty compatible but only ejects right. It appears it can be charged two way, right side charging handle and a AR style charging handle.

The Panzer was also next to a MKA 1923 bullpup shotgun and based on looks, weight and feel the Panzer seemed like the better shotgun of the two. It needs real performance reviews though.
Link Posted: 10/1/2018 9:08:28 AM EDT
The lack of chokes is a disappointing oversight.
Link Posted: 10/1/2018 9:15:28 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lazyengineer:
The lack of chokes is a disappointing oversight.
View Quote
Isn’t it thick enough to have it threaded for chokes?
Link Posted: 10/4/2018 5:01:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2018 8:37:10 PM EDT by WatermelonAssassin]
This is part one of my review, the second part will be after the range trip. I will try to answer as many questions as I can. Feel free to IM or post in this thread.

I got the shotgun today. It comes in a decent cardboard box. All the accessories have their own little cardboard boxes. Overall a nice package. You get the manual, two 5rd magazines, the takedown wrench used to remove the barrel, fakepul sites, and a cleaning kit with the beefiest rods I have ever seen you could beat someone down with the cleaning rods themselves.



The fit and finish with the gun is overall very nice. No machining marks inside or out that I can see. The only nits I could pick are: 1. The color fill on the safety markings are laughable and look like a kindergartner did them. 2. The Ar-15 style charging handle has a boat load of slop and play. It can wiggle quite a bit. During disassembly I realized the AR style charging handle serves 0 purpose for the function of the firearm and interfaces with a little nob on the bolt. I would say that the gun can be run with the side charging handle only. Which is probably what I will do. If that works well I might see if I can get someone to machine a plug for the receiver.



People have wondered if the grip can be replaced with an Ar-15 style grip. The answer is Maybe. I have two different AR grips in my parts box. A standard A2 grip and an Ergo grip. The ergo grip will fit and function (if I take the nobby bits on the front off it isn't completely installed in the pics). The A2 on the other hand will not. This is because the channel that the receiver sits in is narrower on the A2 than on the factory grip. The factory grip isn't bad. The finger numb is located well and it is made out of that rubber material that almost feels sticky. I will likely swap this out at some point for something else. One important thing with the pistol grip. You have to take down the entire gun to swap it. There is a bolt on the inside of the receiver that the grip screws into, not the plastic lower itself. If you don't take apart the whole gun that bolt will shift and bounce around in the receiver.






The giant suppressor looking thing is just a barrel shroud that screws onto threads on the outside of the barrel. The barrel shroud interacts with a plate at the front of the hand guard to lock the front of the hand guard in place. Without it the hand guard wiggles and the top rail moves. This could be cut down to reveal the end of the barrel for suppressing or chokes and still perform its function. I am unsure if the barrel has enough meat to be threaded for chokes. It seems like it does? But I am unsure.




The receiver itself is beefy and thick the thickness you see in the pictures is uniform throughout the sides of the receiver itself. The top of the receiver seems extra reinforced and is roughly half an inch thick. I imagine it could take a fair amount of pressure in the event of a Kaboom. The gas system seems well made and the action glides with no wiggle.




The trigger. Holy shit the trigger. It is single stage with no uptake or overtravel and a clean break. But hell it must be 20-25lb.


Link Posted: 10/4/2018 5:07:26 PM EDT
The shotgun has an ar-15 style ambi mag release in the rear of the gun by the mag well. It also has an AR style bolt hold open situated in the same spot. I like that the safety and mag release are both held on by allen screws. This would likely allow for easy aftermarket parts to be made. The mags that ship with the gun fall free nicely and seem well made.



If anyone has questions or wants pics of anything specific feel free to ask.
Link Posted: 10/4/2018 5:09:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2018 5:10:42 PM EDT by RDTCU]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WatermelonAssassin:
The trigger.
View Quote
Probably to make it super drop safe. There ARE two trigger springs and a hammer spring in there

It looks like they used AR trigger parts where they could.
Link Posted: 10/4/2018 7:21:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2018 7:36:51 PM EDT by WatermelonAssassin]
So I have been playing around with the shotgun more and I realized that a Geissele charging handle could be easily modified to fit. If you shaved maybe 1/8in off the gas key side of a AR-15 charging handle it would function perfectly. Without modification the bolt appears to be completely in battery but there is some pressure on the operating spring. I will try to take some pics and get them up.

Edit: Ok so I tried to take good pictures for this one so I'm sorry if the IPotato sucks. I compared the two charging handles side by side. The Geissele would be a wonderful upgrade for this beast. There is no slop or wiggle with it, and it is nice and tight. The Geissele fits and functions just fine the only issue is the gap shown in the pictures. As you can see the bolt is fully in battery with both charging handles, but there is pressure on the spring with the Geissele. You can also see from the pic of the two charging handles side by side, that it would be a simple task to remove a little material from the Geissele to obtain perfect function.

F = Factory
G = Geissele





Link Posted: 10/4/2018 7:47:02 PM EDT
What is the length of pull?
Link Posted: 10/4/2018 8:16:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2018 8:37:57 PM EDT by WatermelonAssassin]
LOP from the center of the trigger to the center of the buttpad looks like 16.5”

And it weighs 8lb 3.2oz empty and no optic.
Link Posted: 10/4/2018 8:59:20 PM EDT
Thank you.
Link Posted: 10/6/2018 2:10:21 AM EDT
I just ordered one from my LGS. I can’t wait to get it.
Link Posted: 10/6/2018 9:47:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2018 11:29:40 AM EDT by HK_DUDE]
Would you be able to show a picture of the whole gun with the fake can/barrel shroud removed?

Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 10/7/2018 12:48:50 PM EDT
Yea I can take one in a few minutes. Please note I made an edit about the fake can in my review. Turns out it locks a plate in place which stabilizes the hand guard and makes it not wobble like mad. Since the optic rail is built into the hand guard, it not wobbling is super important. But you could replace it with a bolt of appropriate size and threading or even cut the factory shroud in half and it will still do the same job. Also the barrel comes to the end of the shroud so you could run chokes and the factory shroud at the same time.
Link Posted: 10/7/2018 1:34:43 PM EDT
Oh, OK I didn't see that update.

I like the looks of the shroud anyway, so no bigs.

Thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 10/7/2018 1:40:04 PM EDT
We need a range report.

Test it with a box of every 12 guage ammo you can find.

That isn't too much to ask, is it
Link Posted: 10/7/2018 4:12:03 PM EDT
I intend to. I went to Scheels and got a variety. I am just waiting for the weather to permit. It has been cold rain here in Rochester the last few days.

So far to test I have:

2.75" Federal Field and Target 8 shot (1200fps) walmart 100rnd bulk box
2.75" Fiocchi Exacta Nickel plated 9 pellet 00 buck (1325fps)
2.75" Federal LE Tru-ball 1oz rifled slugs (1600fps)
2.75" Winchester AA Low Recoil Low Noise target loads #8 shot (980fps) lightest load I could find anywhere
2.75" Winchester AA Super-handicap heavy target loads 7.5 shot (1250fps)
3" Federal Power Shok Magnum 00 buckshot 15 pellet (1210fps)
Link Posted: 10/7/2018 4:33:26 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WatermelonAssassin:
I intend to. I went to Scheels and got a variety. I am just waiting for the weather to permit. It has been cold rain here in Rochester the last few days.

So far to test I have:

2.75" Federal Field and Target 8 shot (1200fps) walmart 100rnd bulk box
2.75" Fiocchi Exacta Nickel plated 9 pellet 00 buck (1325fps)
2.75" Federal LE Tru-ball 1oz rifled slugs (1600fps)
2.75" Winchester AA Low Recoil Low Noise target loads #8 shot (980fps) lightest load I could find anywhere
2.75" Winchester AA Super-handicap heavy target loads 7.5 shot (1250fps)
3" Federal Power Shok Magnum 00 buckshot 15 pellet (1210fps)
View Quote
Good deal! I look forward to your review.
Link Posted: 10/7/2018 4:40:31 PM EDT
I have both new Panzers.
Link Posted: 10/7/2018 6:09:08 PM EDT
What is the other one?
Link Posted: 10/7/2018 6:22:08 PM EDT
Turkish. No thanks.
Link Posted: 10/9/2018 12:01:55 AM EDT
any other reviews? i think there are a couple other 12ga semi auto bullpups out or coming out soon as well.
Link Posted: 10/9/2018 6:14:34 PM EDT
I will have the range report up Thursday. Unfortunately it has been heavy ran the last few days here in Rochester and Thursday is supposed to be the first day of clear weather. Since it is an outdoor range I will have to wait it out.
Link Posted: 10/10/2018 5:56:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2018 6:08:37 PM EDT by WatermelonAssassin]
The weather cleared today so I managed to make it to the range. Here is what I got:

The good: The only round the gun had issues with is the low recoil and noise. Which isn’t surprising since it is such a abnormally light load. It had no failures with the Walmart bulk or any other load. It patterned the buckshot and slugs fairly well. About what would be expected of a 18.5” cylinder bore. Recoil with the Walmart bulk was pleasantly light. The slugs and magnum 3” buckshot by far recoiled the most. But even they were easily manageable. Very fun gun to shoot. The trigger isn’t an issue once you get used to it. The reset on the trigger is very audible and tactile so that is good.

The bad: The right side of the ambi safety cut into my trigger finger under recoil. Not terrible but very irritating. Since the safety is installed with Allen screws I will see if that side can be removed. Some of the rounds, especially the magnum buckshot were very gassy. Being a bullpup that gas cloud came right out of the ejection port and AR charging handle slot right into the shooters face. Manageable but definitely not pleasant. Worth noting the slugs, Walmart bulk, and 2.75” buck didn’t have this problem. It was exclusively the 3” buck and the heavy handicap Winchester.

Final thoughts: I think the shotgun is a blast to shoot and could be a great suppressor host. The form factor and balance is excellent. I think it has a few shortcomings but more than makes up for them. The multiple charging options is very nice and the mags and build quality is excellent. Not to mention the price point is excellent for what you are getting.
Link Posted: 10/10/2018 6:25:14 PM EDT
After much thought, as phenomenal as I think this shotgun is, I have decided to post mine in the EE later this evening. This isn't a knock against this shotgun. Honestly today I just realized, while I can shoot a shotgun and hit what I am aiming at, I don't ENJOY shooting shotguns. Not like I enjoy shooting my Tavor or my Garand. I have tried a lot of shotguns. From Benelli M4s, Super Vincis, Husqvarna SxS, H&R OUs, and at least a dozen different flavors of pump action shotguns including SBS. And I just don't enjoy them. I thought maybe this one would be different, but sadly it was not. So it is going up on the block. I will probably replace it with something cheap for hunting that I won't feel bad only pulling out of the safe 1-2 times a year to bird hunt with and nothing else. So if anyone is interested please let me know.
Link Posted: 10/10/2018 6:40:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WatermelonAssassin:
The weather cleared today so I managed to make it to the range. Here is what I got:

The good: The only round the gun had issues with is the low recoil and noise. Which isn’t surprising since it is such a abnormally light load. It had no failures with the Walmart bulk or any other load. It patterned the buckshot and slugs fairly well. About what would be expected of a 18.5” cylinder bore. Recoil with the Walmart bulk was pleasantly light. The slugs and magnum 3” buckshot by far recoiled the most. But even they were easily manageable. Very fun gun to shoot. The trigger isn’t an issue once you get used to it. The reset on the trigger is very audible and tactile so that is good.

The bad: The right side of the ambi safety cut into my trigger finger under recoil. Not terrible but very irritating. Since the safety is installed with Allen screws I will see if that side can be removed. Some of the rounds, especially the magnum buckshot were very gassy. Being a bullpup that gas cloud came right out of the ejection port and AR charging handle slot right into the shooters face. Manageable but definitely not pleasant. Worth noting the slugs, Walmart bulk, and 2.75” buck didn’t have this problem. It was exclusively the 3” buck and the heavy handicap Winchester.

Final thoughts: I think the shotgun is a blast to shoot and could be a great suppressor host. The form factor and balance is excellent. I think it has a few shortcomings but more than makes up for them. The multiple charging options is very nice and the mags and build quality is excellent. Not to mention the price point is excellent for what you are getting.
View Quote
Great review with pertinent info. Thank you! I want one more now, because I will never shoot 3" anything in it.
Link Posted: 10/10/2018 7:28:12 PM EDT
Thanks for the review. Post a video review if you have the time as I couldn't find any on Youtube yet.
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