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Posted: 10/26/2006 9:48:13 PM EST
Is the PVS 14/6015 supposed to have a cut off feature when removed from the head gear? The reason i'm asking is because i have a 6015 that does not cut off when removed from my mil spec head gear. Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 8:14:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 8:37:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2006 4:05:00 AM EST by IPSC_GUY]

Originally Posted By vincep:
Is the PVS 14/6015 supposed to have a cut off feature when removed from the head gear? The reason i'm asking is because i have a 6015 that does not cut off when removed from my mil spec head gear. Thanks.



There could be a couple of things going on here. First the PVS 14 and the 6015 are two different animals inside. The funny thing is the battery packs all start off as PVS 14.

Who did you buy your unit from?

Does your unit have the brass contacts in the upper housing?

Does your unit have a variable gain knob and does it work?

Now here is where it gets sticky... ALL NVDs sold as PVS 14s or 6015s for that matter are not the same.

WARNING SOAP BOX TIME

Unless your name is Litton, ITT or Morovision (ITT's civilian distributor) you are doing the exact same thing as everyone else. Buying up the componets and building Night Vision Devices. The term factory is pretty loose at best. I tend to believe the conditions I do my work under are better than most. Laminar air flow bench and such. American Surplus in Texas actualy has a clean room in their facility in Texas I am told. Anyway, some companies have sold units that are PVS 14 spec i.e. varaible gain (MX 11769 tube) and auto shutoff and called them "6015." An actual 6015 does not have varaible gain (MX10160 tube) and no auto shutoff.

One poor guy who sent his unit in to me to have a single battery pack upgrade done. Had bought a unit that he was told was a PVS14. BUT they had used a 6015 upper housing (no brass contacts in the upper housing) and a PVS14 battery pack so he did not have the auto shutoff feature. His unit came from (if memory serves) Night Quest. So I called them and had to go all the way to their company President to get an answer and the man said "Oh that is how we offered them for a while as the "civillian" version." We had to scrounge him up an upper housing. What a pain that was. They had also clipped the flex print that SHOULD have gone to the upper housing. So his dual battery pack was now less capable.

Other people sell their units and call them "AN/PVS14." the only units in existance that have AN (AN by the way stands for ARMY NAVY) in front of them is the US Goverment. So It is hard to say in this situation if you are having a malfunction or simply your particular unit does not support that feature.

If your unit does have variable gain and brass contacts in the upper housing it could be your swing arm. The swing arm has a tiny reed switch in side it that is designed to open when the unit is removed from the head harness OR when the rhino mount is tipped UP!! That engages the auto shutoff feature.

Which unit do you have?

IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 4:37:10 PM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By IPSC_GUY:

There could be a couple of things going on here. First the PVS 14 and the 6015 are two different animals inside. The funny thing is the battery packs all start off as PVS 14.

Who did you buy your unit from?

Does your unit have the brass contacts in the upper housing?

Does your unit have a variable gain knob and does it work?

IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA


To answer all your questions in order.
I bought the unit from Optics HQ. My unit does have brass contacts in the upper housing as well as on the head mount adapter it connects to. My unit has no variable gain knob because it's a 6015 not a PVS 14. There is a plastic rivit in place of the varable gain knob.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 5:16:51 PM EST
Ok you have an odd ball unit. With brass contacts in the upper housing you at least have the provision for it. The Auto shutoff may or may not be hooked up. Has your auto shutoff ever worked? or is it just failing now?

IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 5:51:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2006 6:11:12 PM EST by vincep]
height=8
Originally Posted By IPSC_GUY:
Ok you have an odd ball unit. With brass contacts in the upper housing you at least have the provision for it. The Auto shutoff may or may not be hooked up. Has your auto shutoff ever worked? or is it just failing now?

IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA


I've only had the unit for a few weeks and the auto cut off feature never worked. I believe Victor and Optics HQ use the same housing for the PVS 14/6015.

pic of 6015 i own w/ adv specs
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 6:21:14 PM EST
Contact either and ask if the auto shut off feature was hooked up or not on your unit. I am suspecting not.

IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 6:55:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2006 8:03:21 PM EST by vincep]
i brought this up in a thread in nightvisionmall.com regarding 6015 questions. Michael, the owner of Optics HQ seemed like he wasn't 100% sure and he assembeled the unit. Maybe what's needed internally isn't present in the 6015 he and Victor sell?I really love my 6015 as it's light weight, has an ITT Select Alpha tube with extremely high specs. (Thin film, STN 29.6, PR almost 2,600, halo 0.6) Michael hand selected this for me and by rights he could have charged me almost 1100 bucks more than he did. The tube has one tiny blemish that can only be seen in extreme high light and classified this a B grade. To me and i'm sure 98% of others would consider this an A grade, hands down. The 2 reasons i wanted to know if the 6015 was supposed to cut off like the PVS 14 was to; first, see if i have a defective unit/headmount and secondly have the knowledge that there is more of a difference besides the variable gain knob. According to your posts many 6015 as well as PVS 14 variants or knockoffs aren't bult with this auto cut off feature.
If mine is one of them, i really don't want to be a pain in the ass to Michael because he's been good to me. I feel i got my money's worth and then some.


Edited to add

I do remember reading somewhere that the Select Alpha Tubes won't work with the variable gain function in the PVS 14. Is this true? If so, and this is part of the explanation with the auto cut off, then i'd much rather have a tube like mine than one that isn't as good just to have the cut off feature.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 2:37:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2006 7:17:25 AM EST by IPSC_GUY]
The tube has nothing to do with the auto cutoff feature. It is all in the electronics of the battery pack.

Quick lesson

MX 10160 tubes have a fixed gain power supply. These are used in the 6015, the MUM, the D740 / 760 series the ANVIS goggles the list goes on.

MX11769 tubes have a varaible gain power supply. These are used in the PVS 14, the UNS (PVS 22) and in Night Vision Depot's "Talon" 4X rifle sight. The talon by the way is the MAC daddy of rifle sights and you can actually BUY it as oppsed to the Raptor.

Three things make the auto shutoff feature work.

1. The upper housing has to have two brass contacts in it.

2. The battery pack has to be hooked up to these contacts via two small legs of the flex print.

3. You need a wired J arm and either a Halo head harness or a rhino helmet mount.

WHY ITT decided that it was good idea to offer a unit with out this feature I will never understand, becuse to make a 6015 battery pack they take a PVS 14 battery pack and they cut these two leads off and then the cut another piece of flex print going to the variable gain pot and remove it as well.

I am guessing here, but if Optics HQ is using upper housings with brass contacts then they are having trouble getting 6015 housings that do not have the contacts and are simply using PVS 14 upper housings.

I would simply call them and ask if your unit is supposed to have the auto shut off feature or not. Your not being a pain you are simply asking if a product you purchased has a specific feature. If you want that feature retrofited in your unit you are probably looking at a new battery pack.

Edited to add.

Ok I just pulled one (a single battery pack) apart to check and it would be possible to have the flex print repaired with the contacts added. This is doable if all they did was clip the flex print.


IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 7:29:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2006 7:40:42 AM EST by vincep]
height=8
Originally Posted By IPSC_GUY:
The tube has nothing to do with the auto cutoff feature. It is all in the electronics of the battery pack.

Quick lesson

MX 10160 tubes have a fixed gain power supply. These are used in the 6015, the MUM, the D740 / 760 series the ANVIS goggles the list goes on.

MX11769 tubes have a varaible gain power supply. These are used in the PVS 14, the UNS (PVS 22) and in Night Vision Depot's "Talon" 4X rifle sight. The talon by the way is the MAC daddy of rifle sights and you can actually BUY it as oppsed to the Raptor.


WHY ITT decided that it was good idea to offer a unit with out this feature I will never understand, becuse to make a 6015 battery pack they take a PVS 14 battery pack and they cut these two leads off and then the cut another piece of flex print going to the variable gain pot and remove it as well.


Edited to add.

Ok I just pulled one (a single battery pack) apart to check and it would be possible to have the flex print repaired with the contacts added. This is doable if all they did was clip the flex print.


IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA


Thats weird. Why would they remove a feature when it wasn't necessary to use the MX 10160 tubes? The only reason i can speculate to is maybe they had to make these modificatins in order to get these units on the civilian market? Sort of what they did by removing bayonet lugs on rifles to get them to be imported a few years ago. Well if it can be repaired, is it worth the expense to do it? If i knew more about NV, i would attempt to re sodder the leads myself. But then again, if i took the unit apart, i wouldn't be able to nitrogen purge the unit. Although, a guy in another forum who repairs Military NV, said that nitrogen purging isn't necesary if you take the unit apart in a low humidity air conditioned room. To the best of your knowledge is that true?
Anyway, i'm not sure having this feature is really that impotant. It's a shame though that my unit and head gear is set up for that feature and because of an unnecessary mod it won't work.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 10:46:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2006 11:19:30 AM EST by IPSC_GUY]
Why remove the feature? I have no idea other than they were trying to mimick the 6015 features?

Remember these guys are just like me, they are building this stuff, not buying it from ITT as a completed unit. I just happen to be a bigger night vision geek and have read more, and repaired more than most.

There is no restriction on night vision equipment other than supplying it to users outside the US.

As for the repair / retrofit you will need flex print and the ability to set an eyelet in the end of the flex print. In addition you will need a 24 gauge female pin to make the end connection. This will all need to be done on an ESD mat with an electrically isolated tip soldering iron as the circuit card is full of surface mount ICs that are susceptable to ESD damage.

As for nitrogen purging if you want take that risk, that is up to you. Having moisture laden air inside the unit will cause it to fog the interior glass surfaces when you take your unit out in cold wet weather. Who ever said you don't need to nitrogen purge is off their rocker.

IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 1:08:49 PM EST
Well if 6015's aren't supposed to have this feature then i'm not going to sweat it. Its not worth the hassle and expense to modify my unit. I've learned some things that i can share with others;most importantly that the difference between the 6015 and PVS 14 is not only the variable control knob. Apparently the 6015's being advertised as only lacking one feature (varable gain) of the PVS 14 isn't true.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 1:33:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By vincep:
Well if 6015's aren't supposed to have this feature then i'm not going to sweat it. Its not worth the hassle and expense to modify my unit. I've learned some things that i can share with others;most importantly that the difference between the 6015 and PVS 14 is not only the variable control knob. Apparently the 6015's being advertised as only lacking one feature (varable gain) of the PVS 14 isn't true.


Correct

6015 - non variable gain and no auto shut off feature.

PVS14 Variable gain and auto shut off feature.

That is it.

IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 4:20:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2006 4:22:06 PM EST by vincep]
Michael says he's going to get back with me next week because he's going to check this out. He insists that both the PVS 14 and 6015 will cut off when used in a flip up helmet mount.Tell me if i'm wrong but whether or not a unit will cut off with a Helmet Mount will also determine whether ot not it will or will not work with a wired Headmount, correct?


link to thread in other forum
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:05:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By vincep:
Michael says he's going to get back with me next week because he's going to check this out. He insists that both the PVS 14 and 6015 will cut off when used in a flip up helmet mount.Tell me if i'm wrong but whether or not a unit will cut off with a Helmet Mount will also determine whether ot not it will or will not work with a wired Headmount, correct?


link to thread in other forum


Ok if they were building 6015s with the feature then the problem will most likely be in your swing arm. The arm has a small reed switch inside it that is actuated magnetically when it is pluggedinto the head mount or the rhino mount. In the case of the head mount when you detach it you activate the reed switch. In the case of the rhino mount when you tip it up. So you MIGHT actually have something wrong if they hooked it up. If they are building 6015s with the feature they should advertise it and educate the customer to it's use.

IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 6:46:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 12:54:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 1:13:32 PM EST by vincep]
height=8
Originally Posted By Victor: Vincep, I also do not believe you have ever been one of my customers of any of my NV products. I also do not believe the word “they” I am seeing here applies to any of my products. Just wanted to clear up any miscommunications as I do not know about other folks products that they buy from, only the gear I sell. Hope this all helps.


I wasn't trying to imply anything negative about your or Michaels Products as i'm very happy with my 6015 from Optics HQ. The only reason i posted a link to a thread, posted by you in nightvisionmalls forum, is to let Ipsc guy see a picture of a 6015 SB unit that appears exactly like the one i own. I made an asumption that since the unit shown in the pic not only appears the same; (down to the plastic rivit in place of the VC knob) it was the same. My only intent was to furnish as much information as i could about my particular unit to determine whether or not my unit has the auto cut off feature.


height=8
Originally Posted By Victor: Vincep, I also do not believe you have ever been one of my customers of any of my NV products.


This is correct. The only item i ever purchased from you is DA Varable Torch.(which i'm extremely happy with)
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 1:11:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2006 5:16:37 PM EST by vincep]
height=8
Originally Posted By IPSC_GUY:
Originally Posted By vincep:

Ok if they were building 6015s with the feature then the problem will most likely be in your swing arm. The arm has a small reed switch inside it that is actuated magnetically when it is pluggedinto the head mount or the rhino mount. In the case of the head mount when you detach it you activate the reed switch. In the case of the rhino mount when you tip it up. So you MIGHT actually have something wrong if they hooked it up. If they are building 6015s with the feature they should advertise it and educate the customer to it's use.

IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA


If it's a switch in the swing arm that you're suspecting, then it either has to be open or closed to trip the auto cut off, right? If my assumption is correct; if my unit is set up for this, i can trip this feature by turning the unit on and either connecting or severing a conection with the brass leads? Would this let me know for sure if my unit is at least wired for this feature? If so, i can conclude by the process of elimination that the swing arm is defective, right?

Edited to add.

I tried this to no avail. Either i'm taking the wrong approach or my unit dooes not support this feature.


Edited twice to add.

I wrote Morovision(itt's comercial distributer) and asked them about 6015's. They replied and stated that in general 6015's do lack the autocutoff feature.He further went on to say that some 6015's are equipped with this feature.(apparantly Victors units are the few that do) They also stated, providing the headgear is wired for it; a unit that will cut off with a helmet mount will also cut of with a headmount. Ipsc guy is more or less on the money.
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 1:33:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2006 12:51:31 AM EST by IPSC_GUY]
Here this is what I should have had you try right off the batt. This is a quick test to see if you unit has been wired for auto shutoff.

Take you unit, put a day over on it. Make sure you do not expose it to any undue amount of light. A dimly light room is ok with the day cover on. Next turn the unit on and ensure that it is operating. With a paper clip that has been unfolded, touch the two brass contacts with each end of the paper clip making an electrical connection. Your unit should shut off.

Next turn the switch back to the off position. Now again touch the two brasscontacts with the paper clip. here is the tricky part. While maintaining contact between the two brass screws, turn the unit ON. It should stay on till you remove the paper clip breaking the electrical connection. At this point you will have to recycle the ON OFF switch to get you unit to turn on again.

If your unit does the above you have the auto cutoff feature and the problem is in you swing arm. If it does not then your unit was not wired for auto cutoff feature.

Try that,

IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
Link Posted: 11/1/2006 3:28:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2006 3:51:42 PM EST by vincep]
height=8
Originally Posted By IPSC_GUY:
Here this is what I should have had you try right off the batt. This is a quick test to see if you unit has been wired for auto shutoff.

Take you unit, put a day over on it. Make sure you do not expose it to any undue amount of light. A dimly light room is ok with the day cover on. Next turn the unit on and ensure that it is operating. With a paper clip that has been unfolded, touch the two brass contacts with each end of the paper clip making an electrical connection. Your unit should shut off. Next turn the switch back to the off position. Now again touch the two brasscontacts with the paper clip. here is the tricky part. While maintaining contact between the two brass screws, turn the unit ON. It should stay on till you remove the paper clip breaking the electrical connection. At this point you will have to recycle the ON OFF switch to get you unit to turn on again.

If your unit does the above you have the auto cutoff feature and the problem is in you swing arm. If it does not then your unit was not wired for auto cutoff feature.

Try that,

IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA


I did exactly what you said 3 times and it had no effect. Below is Michael's reply i got today. Apparently the units he has are all over the place.

Vince,

A bit of an update while I am waiting for some responses.

We get our housings complete so the only assembly required would be to drop in the tube, purge it and test it. I have just gone through about 12 6015s (those that had the contacts) and 10 or so PVS-14s. Results:

6015: some did not have the auto shut-off feature; some shut-off when removed from headgear or helmet mount, but did not shut-off when the helmet mount was flipped up; some shut-off when removed from headgear or helmet mount or when the helmet mount was flipped up. Further discrepancy: some the units with the shut-off function came back on when the unit was plugged in again, and some required the reset.

PVS-14: some shut-off when removed from headgear or helmet mount, but did not shut-off when the helmet mount was flipped up; some shut-off when removed from headgear or helmet mount or when the helmet mount was flipped up. Further discrepancy: some the units with the shut-off function came back on when the unit was plugged in again, and some required the reset.

At this point, I can only guess that there are discrepancies in the electronics on the manufacturer's end and I am waiting to hear some answers.
_________________
Michael

Link Posted: 11/1/2006 3:48:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2006 3:53:49 PM EST by IPSC_GUY]
Huh? I have seen the versions that come back on when reattached to the head or helmet mount with out recycling the on off swithch but there was no ryme or reason as to why. I actualy like that better. Too bad my current single battery pack requires reseting the switch to make it come back on.

If they are working with a halo head harness but not the Rhino mount then the Rhino mount is at fault there. The Rhino mount has a small magnest inside it in a tube. When the mount is tipped up the magnet falls down causing the reed switch (in the swing arm) to activate and open or close the circuit. It is kind of a funky thing really and the magnet may not be falling back into place each time.

Now I am going to go break all this out and play with it again. Great more time out in the yard in the dark...

IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA


Link Posted: 11/1/2006 4:12:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2006 6:40:19 PM EST by vincep]
height=8
Originally Posted By IPSC_GUY:
Huh? I have seen the versions that come back on when reattached to the head or helmet mount with out recycling the on off swithch but there was no ryme or reason as to why. I actualy like that better. Too bad my current single battery pack requires reseting the switch to make it come back on.

If they are working with a halo head harness but not the Rhino mount then the Rhino mount is at fault there. The Rhino mount has a small magnest inside it in a tube. When the mount is tipped up the magnet falls down causing the reed switch (in the swing arm) to activate and open or close the circuit. It is kind of a funky thing really and the magnet may not be falling back into place each time.

Now I am going to go break all this out and play with it again. Great more time out in the yard in the dark...

IPSC_GUY

SIERRA II ALPHA





It sounds like perhaps his supplier is supplying him with a combination of different functioning units and or mounts? I'm wondering if he's using the same head and helmet mount to test all the units. If he is, at least this would sort of narrow it down to the unit;although an intermitant problem with the headgear could cause this confusion? IMO, a bad approach would be to test these units on their individual headmounts. While i don't claim to know much about nightvision diagnosis and repair; i am familiar with the process of elimination.
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