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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/12/2005 9:39:01 AM EDT
There's lots of talk about the civilian vesion of the P-90. I even read somwhere that someone was hoping that they'd chamber it in 9mm. At first I thought it absurd, but I've ben reflecting on it a bit and may be realizing the advantage that this has. First, I think we can all agree that the inital opurpose of thi scartridge was to offer AP capability in a handgun/small carbine, right?

In light of this, reports of bullet performance have been somewhat dismal (I remember reading that it has a would profile similar to a 22mag)...with the availability of 9mm +P+ ammo loaded in rapidly expanding HP bullets, I think a strong case can be made for a 9mm offering. Not only do you get less expensive ammunition for plinking, but a potentially more effective round in a life or death situation (9mm HP versuse the newer 5.7mm balistic tip bullets).

I suppose my round about question is, how readially convertable will the 5.7 be to a 9mm or 357 sig? I'd imagine the magazine capacity shoudl be similar, btu I'm concerned withthe difference in the profile of the round and its ability to smoothly feed into the chamber.

Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:02:09 AM EDT
I'd prefer 7.62x25, but 9mm would be good too.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:02:56 AM EDT
I was the one that wanted a PS90 in 9mm... but when you break down the OS of the gun you'll see that it aint gonna happen, EVER !

I'd still like to have a PS90 in 9mm, but that contraption that rotates the bullets and the magazines design will be way too costly to covert.

Someone might make an after-market conversion just to save money on ammo, kinda like .22lr conversion... but it will be very expensive and complex to do.

I don't have anything against the 5.7 round... I just would like a 9mm variant too, but it wont happen anytime soon.

Oh well...
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:35:12 AM EDT
One might as well not bother talking about that, as it will come out in 9mm just after the .30-30 winchester version is released. Do you guys know when that M1911 is coming out in 12GA ?
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:56:40 AM EDT
I'm not a 5.7 hater, but all things considered, the 9mm is a nice alternative. I know Fn isn't going to do it, I just didn't know if the loading mechanism would be straight walled cartridge friendly, or require a bottle necked round.

I am encourage with what a 16" barrel will give witht he 5.7 and some of the newer loadings...if only it was half the cost it is now...
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 2:18:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 2:19:51 PM EDT by Phil1712]
how about a P90 in .17 HMR? :P I'd be all over that like a hobo on a ham sammich, mainly becuase I love the .17 HMR and MkII. It'd be great for them pesky vermin in the backyard.


other then that, I'd take a P90 in almost any ammo configuration, if only they could make on in a .223 then I'd buy it cuase that ammo is cheap..

Link Posted: 9/12/2005 6:07:00 PM EDT
P90 in .30 Carbine!
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 6:14:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 6:18:39 PM EDT by pillbox]
6.5mm Arasaka! BONZI!!!!!!!!!!! Hell make a spud gun version too, and a pintle mount for the clown car, and a tow rope attachment..and a mount for an Ipod for tunes at the range...training wheels would be good too an an an a pez despenser.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:49:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sloth:
I'm not a 5.7 hater, but all things considered, the 9mm is a nice alternative. I know Fn isn't going to do it, I just didn't know if the loading mechanism would be straight walled cartridge friendly, or require a bottle necked round.

I am encourage with what a 16" barrel will give witht he 5.7 and some of the newer loadings...if only it was half the cost it is now...



With 50 rounds in a straight magazine, the P90 magazine practically requires straight-walled cartridges.



Sure the P90 technically uses a bottle-necked cartridge, but the wide part of the casing doesn't appear to taper very much. As for the feed mechanism, it's nothing more than a simple follower pushing two dummy rounds ahead of it. The cartridges are able to navigate the spiral twist that orients the cartridges toward the chamber, but the dummy rounds cannot, which makes them semi-captive even though they are not attached to the follower. A new magazine would probably have to be designed to account for the likely dimensional differences between 9mm and the 5.7x28 round, but there's no reason the operating principles of the P90 couldn't be applied directly to 9mm.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:53:19 PM EDT
Asking for a 9mm P90 is like asking for a Ferrari that runs on regular gas. It defeats the purpose and makes no sense.

If you're willing to pay for a P90 ammo price shouldn't be your top priority.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:00:07 AM EDT
I disagree on the Ferrari/unleaded gas analogy...let us not forget the 5.7 was developed to provide an answer to body armor in a handgun. The FN-90 offered a small package and more capacity, but still the purpose was to defeat body armor. When the wound data and profiles started coming back, the results were not what was hoped for...similar to a 22 mag. You get your AP capability, but little else. FN starts to hype the low recoil aspect and the draws some comparisons to the 9mm (on their site), but to refute these...we are going to have access to a semi...not FA version...recoil doesn't matter too much. Also we are not bound by the rules of war...the FN comparisons are 9mm FMJ to 5.7 FMJ. We all know that 9mm hydroshocks are light years ahead of the 9mm FMJ ammo. Its godd to see a 40 grain V-max bullet in the 5.7...and if the figures I've seen in the PS-90 for this offering (2600 fps and 600 ft/lbs)...then this is a step in the right direction. But I still think there is a strong case to be made for the 9mm in this gun...espically if you look at the +P+ loads with some of the high end hollow points.

Desite what you may think, its not a case of, if your worried about the cost of ammo, you shouldn't be looking at the gun...may of us don't want to make that investment in a weapon that takes highly specialized ammo. I want a gun that I can afford to have a thousand or two rounds stockpiled for. I don't mind several hundred rounds at 50 cents a round...but you get comfortable with a gun by practice and when the cost of ammo makes practice impractical, then you have an issue. No to mention in a pinch, its nice to have a gun chambered in one of the most common rounds on the planet.

As for dimensions...I founs that the rim of the 5.7 is 0.305" but I'm not sure on the 9mm (my Cartridegs of the World" is at home). Obviously the 5.7 is 9mm longer than the 9x19mm, btu I'm unaware how different the bodys of the cartridges are.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:37:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 10:50:14 AM EDT by pillbox]
Sloth..where in the hell are you getting your information? the 5.7 wasnt developed for a handgun at all ,it was developed for the P90 PDW in 1988 ....the pistol didnt come along until 1995!
The P90 was developed at the request of the US Army and so was the HK counterpart. THe US Army had decided that the 9mm was coming to the end of its useful life on the modern battlefield against the uniformed armies of the world due to various forms of body armor becoming common in use , even in 3rd world shitholes.
what I thinks is...that you dont know enough of the correct facts to be speading this horseshit.
and your credibility because of it ,is below zero. If you like the gun /hate the caliber..tough shit because thats how it comes.....you might as well lament that FAL's dont come in .357mag. for you to keep harping on this silly shit makes me think ...nutjob...knock it off allready.

"...let us not forget the 5.7 was developed to provide an answer to body armor in a handgun" ROFL
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 11:23:28 AM EDT
R-E-L-A-X...I'm sorry if my points were all completely perfectly correct. I'm not trying to spread anything nor am I dising the 5.7. I ask a very simple question...can the PS-90 easialy be chambered post-factory to fire 9mm?...and I give a few of my points for thinking this isn't a bad idea...all of a sudden I'm treated like a mouth-piece for Handgun Control. I base what I've said on what I've read from FN's site and the discussion sthat have gone on here. I was not aware of the existance of this cartrigde until the hype over the FiveseveN pistol...thus my thought that it was to provide AP capabilities in a pistol. Let me point out that even you agree that this round was designed to defeat bodyarmor. It may do that, but the reports of wound profiles of a 22 mag are not made up and seem to be an issue with this round.

I'm trying not to dis the round, but I'm exploring the possibility that in the PS-90 a 9mm offering may be an interesting alternative. Due to the similarity of the size of the rounds it is a topic worth of discussion...its not as off as suggestion the FAL be chambered in 357...My inquiry is due to the desire to understand how the 9mm would feed...

Aw, screw it...the prick responses used to be limited to the GD...my apologies if I didn't have a perfect historical foundation upon which to draw from...ARFCOM was much more informative and usefull pre-Y2K.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 11:41:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Schulze:
I'd prefer 7.62x25, but 9mm would be good too.



You would have to handload Tok to get the characteristic you want. Ultra hot Czech and Chinese stuff does not get imported any more.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 1:53:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 5:22:48 PM EDT by DmL5]

Originally Posted By sloth:
I'm trying not to dis the round, but I'm exploring the possibility that in the PS-90 a 9mm offering may be an interesting alternative. Due to the similarity of the size of the rounds it is a topic worth of discussion...its not as off as suggestion the FAL be chambered in 357...



If you think about it, a 9mm P90 is almost as bad as the FAL suggestion. The P90 and 5.7 were developed as replacements to the 9mm. For that reason, making a 9mm P90 would be a pointless step backward.



Let me point out that even you agree that this round was designed to defeat bodyarmor. It may do that, but the reports of wound profiles of a 22 mag are not made up and seem to be an issue with this round.


Firstly, the round and weapons were designed with several things in mind, not just penetration. Secondly, when you cite the "reports of 22 mag wound profiles", you are hearing one side of a controversial argument. Have you heard anything from the other side?

As for the .22 WMR comparison, out of equal barrel lengths the 5.7 gets a lot more velocity than the .22 WMR does and the two bullet designs are different. Add to that the fact that FN is developing heavier loads for the PS-90 and the 16-inch barrel increases velocity by 400 fps. In a couple months, the ammo availability will no longer be an issue. So any worries about a 5.7 PS-90 are unfounded. And even if a 9mm PS-90 did gain the supposed benefit in lethality, you would be losing everything the original gun was designed to improve on.


-DmL
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:09:08 PM EDT
I'm anxiously awaiting the new developments in ammo...I mentioned the balistics that I saw on the 40 grain harnady V-max bullets. In the PS-90, 2600 fps and 600 ft/lbs is very respectable in that size weapon. My question and thoughts were simply an extension of a post I read here several weeks ago...the poster made some points and upon thinking about it, I began to share those thoughts. I wanted to see from those that might be in the know, if it was mechanically feasable to alter the caliber.

I wasn't trying to start a negative thread...and as for weapon systems that make no sense, I've always scratched my head over SBR AR-15's that are chambered in auto-loader pistol calibers. Yet there are many that love their 9mm AR's.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:39:24 PM EDT
what is this, Fallout?*


*in the Fallout games they had the P90 but it was in 9mm

I can see the point in wanting it in 9mm though. for me if I got one it'd mainly be a plinking/fun gun, and cheap 9mm ammo would be a lot better for that than hard to find expensive 5.7
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