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PAS-29 COTI deal alert (Page 3 of 14)
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Link Posted: 7/17/2020 10:16:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By M4Madness:
I watched quite a few videos on YouTube of them in use over the last few weeks, and it just didn't really grab me and impress me. I really wanted to like it, I really did. But I've decided to pass this deal up in favor of a true thermal unit.

I'm sure they would work well for CQB, but I'm looking for longer range detection. The other thing that I didn't really like was the "edge detection" look -- I prefer a brighter white heat signature.
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I've watched every video I can find of COTI and when I contrast that with the variety of conditions and types of full thermal systems I've used, I also think COTI will be much more limited, but I think it's going to be really interesting to see what it can do with the way I hunt (or what it can really do in the case of 2 leg critters, if things keep heading down this clown world path we are on)

I am also not a fan of edge detection on any system I've used and so far only one person has demonstrated a part of edge detection that is even remotely interesting, otherwise I find it to be a whole lot of clutter, noise and false positives. Nice idea but at least in Texas there's just too much going on for edge detection to really work


Link Posted: 7/17/2020 10:32:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/17/2020 10:52:13 PM EDT by HKocher]
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Originally Posted By TNVC_Augee:


Alright gents, let me go ahead and put some end to some of this speculation before it becomes a raging conflagration.

BLUF: Safran/Optics1 is discontinuing the AN/PAS-29A, EuroOptic has purchased the program and all remaining parts and inventory. I do not have any additional information on what extent to which they will be continuing to support the program, however my understanding is that Optics1 will provide product support for a period of one year, after which responsibility will fall on EuroOptic to support or not support.

I do not, at this time have further information on when if ever the E-COTI will become commercially available again. The COTI program and the E-COTI program are separate programs, and TNVC is a vetted and authorized direct commercial distributor for Safran/Optics1 and those whom have communicated with me personally know that there are several lines of effort we have been working on directly with Optics1 that are ongoing.

Optics1 has been awarded several large-scale, but not necessary publicized heavily (besides the USMC SBNVG) military and government contracts based on the E-COTI architecture and is focusing on production and support of these products for the foreseeable future. However this demand from the government sector means that it is difficult to justify and divert production to the commercial sector—it’s not a “we’re better than you” position, rather one that is based solely on the current production demands of the manufacturer, as was the decision to finally discontinue for good the AN/PAS-29A.

Beyond that, my feelings have always been clear, I am a huge fan of the AN/PAS-29A COTI and it is a tremendous capability, and these units are fantastically priced, I would encourage anyone that is interested in this capability to purchase one at these prices.

However, as a company we were uncomfortable committing to purchasing the entire product line without any manufacturer support under these conditions, which is why we have discontinued the sales of these units and declined to take over the program. The E-COTI remains available at this time for government and agency sales to qualified customers—again, not because we, or Optics1 hates you, it’s simply the production demands at this time on already contracted orders and government needs.

While The COTI has been discontinued by Optics1, I remain more than happy to assist anyone that purchases one from any source in whatever way that I am able in terms of information and experience with these units, publicly or privately, I just cannot provide material support. For those customers who have purchased AN/PAS-29A COTIs from us in the past, I am still using units that were built in 2010, however, we will continue to try to provide the best support that we possibly can for these systems and more importantly our customers into the future.

~Augee
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Thanks for the info.

I’m fine with it being a soon to be discontinued item. The two biggest problems with i2/thermal devices is price and the fact there’s always something better around the corner.

If you’re always waiting for the next best thing to go on sale, you’re likely to never buy anything. I've been waiting to get some dual tube WPs, but put that aside because I couldn’t pass this up at that price.
Link Posted: 7/17/2020 10:49:06 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TX-Zen:


I've watched every video I can find of COTI and when I contrast that with the variety of conditions and types of full thermal systems I've used, I also think COTI will be much more limited, but I think it's going to be really interesting to see what it can do with the way I hunt (or what it can really do in the case of 2 leg critters, if things keep heading down this clown world path we are on)

I am also not a fan of edge detection on any system I've used and so far only one person has demonstrated a part of edge detection that is even remotely interesting, otherwise I find it to be a whole lot of clutter, noise and false positives. Nice idea but at least in Texas there's just too much going on for edge detection to really work


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My exact thoughts.
Link Posted: 7/17/2020 11:38:58 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TX-Zen:


I've watched every video I can find of COTI and when I contrast that with the variety of conditions and types of full thermal systems I've used, I also think COTI will be much more limited, but I think it's going to be really interesting to see what it can do with the way I hunt (or what it can really do in the case of 2 leg critters, if things keep heading down this clown world path we are on)

I am also not a fan of edge detection on any system I've used and so far only one person has demonstrated a part of edge detection that is even remotely interesting, otherwise I find it to be a whole lot of clutter, noise and false positives. Nice idea but at least in Texas there's just too much going on for edge detection to really work


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The way I hunt I prefer walking and stalking. If I can get detection at 150 yards I would be super happy. Instead of stopping and scanning I can just drive by feeders and see if something is there.

Honesty I think this video
Optics-1 AN/PAS-29A COTI
sealed the deal for me.
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 2:48:09 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TX-Zen:


I've watched every video I can find of COTI and when I contrast that with the variety of conditions and types of full thermal systems I've used, I also think COTI will be much more limited, but I think it's going to be really interesting to see what it can do with the way I hunt (or what it can really do in the case of 2 leg critters, if things keep heading down this clown world path we are on)

I am also not a fan of edge detection on any system I've used and so far only one person has demonstrated a part of edge detection that is even remotely interesting, otherwise I find it to be a whole lot of clutter, noise and false positives. Nice idea but at least in Texas there's just too much going on for edge detection to really work


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It is pretty limited, but it is really awesome for flipping on and checking your surroundings on the fly, the little lever on the bottom is nice to be able to turn on and off quickly(at least you don't want to run it full time on high). If things get really dark it helps to add some context to what you are seeing and I think it works best mixed between patrol and outline. Things are not perfectly lined up usually either, so if you have ocd it might drive you nuts haha.
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 3:46:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2020 3:54:46 AM EDT by MunnyShot]
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Originally Posted By KPog:


Asking because I am not sure, but my particular PAS 29 has two attachment rings, one is bigger for the 14, and the other has some plastic pieces that fit inside a bigger ring. Any idea what that fits exactly? I have seen a few things but not enough to be sure. I will have to try to take a pic tonight.
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@KPog the rubber adapter ring is for the MUM
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 10:10:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 10:40:53 AM EDT
It may work better for COTI but I've seen enough high end thermals where it definitely doesn't. Even the Skeet is cluttered on edge detect but maybe the advantage that COTI has is that it is much shorter ranged
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 11:27:33 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TX-Zen:
It may work better for COTI but I've seen enough high end thermals where it definitely doesn't. Even the Skeet is cluttered on edge detect but maybe the advantage that COTI has is that it is much shorter ranged
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The advantage is that inside the edges is clear i2 image. You just get black on thermal-only devices, but the COTI allows you to see through the dark spots to whatever your NV tube is displaying for the inside of the hot spot. It’s very effective and I use outline almost exclusively. I swap to patrol sometimes when standing still and wanting to do a more detailed sweep of an area for hot spots.
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 11:38:52 AM EDT
I don't have much to add other than that I really like my COTI, and that I feel like a chump for paying as much as I did years ago after seeing this steal of a deal.
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 11:57:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 12:22:47 PM EDT
I have never seen the COTI on black hot. Is it as crappy as I imagine?
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 12:58:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Lowdown3:



I know where you are coming from I own two that I've had for years that were almost twice as much. It happens unfortunately.

As I mentioned these units have been sometimes available to civilians and sometimes not. I jumped on my 2nd one buying it back from a customer that was going through a divorce and asked me to help. I paid considerably more for both of the units I have. Sometimes it's about sewing something up that isn't always available to us. Hell if you own one you know it's worth the $5800. or so original purchase price!!!

But I bought another couple myself cause for this price now everyone in the family will have one and a spare!
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Maybe you can use them all at the same time if you have a GPNVG.  


Link Posted: 7/18/2020 1:07:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2020 1:14:18 PM EDT by towerofpower94]
Ordered yesterday from JRH and it arrived today. Can’t ask for a better shipping time than that.

Mine has the 4 pin external power connection.

Only had a chance to play around in the basement with it mounted on my RNVGs for a few minutes, but so far it seems like an awesome addition.

Planning to take it out Sunday night for an urban hike on a trail through our neighborhood that runs behind houses on one side and the back of light industrial buildings on the other.

I don’t yet have a thermal scope or handheld, but this price seemed too good to pass on.

ETA: @smeeg will your two pin external battery packs work with the four pin connection on the COTI?
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 1:11:25 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By towerofpower94:
Ordered yesterday from JRH and it arrived today. Can't ask for a better shipping time than that.

Mine has the 4 pin external power connection.

Only had a chance to play around in the basement with it mounted on my RNVGs for a few minutes, but so far it seems like an awesome addition.

Planning to take it out Sunday night for an urban hike on a trail through our neighborhood that runs behind houses on one side and the back of light industrial buildings on the other.

I don't yet have a thermal scope or handheld, but this price seemed too good to pass on.
View Quote
Nice!
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 2:06:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 2:12:11 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By towerofpower94:
Ordered yesterday from JRH and it arrived today. Can’t ask for a better shipping time than that.

Mine has the 4 pin external power connection.

Only had a chance to play around in the basement with it mounted on my RNVGs for a few minutes, but so far it seems like an awesome addition.

Planning to take it out Sunday night for an urban hike on a trail through our neighborhood that runs behind houses on one side and the back of light industrial buildings on the other.

I don’t yet have a thermal scope or handheld, but this price seemed too good to pass on.

ETA: @smeeg will your two pin external battery packs work with the four pin connection on the COTI?
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That’s way too long for shipping. Unacceptable.

In for answers on the power pack too.
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 2:23:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By towerofpower94:
Ordered yesterday from JRH and it arrived today. Can’t ask for a better shipping time than that.

Mine has the 4 pin external power connection.

Only had a chance to play around in the basement with it mounted on my RNVGs for a few minutes, but so far it seems like an awesome addition.

Planning to take it out Sunday night for an urban hike on a trail through our neighborhood that runs behind houses on one side and the back of light industrial buildings on the other.

I don’t yet have a thermal scope or handheld, but this price seemed too good to pass on.

ETA: @smeeg will your two pin external battery packs work with the four pin connection on the COTI?
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Per pbjunkie in smeegs ee thread:

"There is a 4 prong connector on the back of the pas-29 that this plugs into. If it doesnt have a little black and copper p pin plug next to the batter compartment it will not work."

Link Posted: 7/18/2020 3:33:48 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By madbarbarian87:


Per pbjunkie in smeegs ee thread:

"There is a 4 prong connector on the back of the pas-29 that this plugs into. If it doesnt have a little black and copper p pin plug next to the batter compartment it will not work."

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The plug on the pas has 4 pins and the connector has two which allows it to be connected in various directions.

What i was stating in that post was that some COTI lile the tacs, and tacs-m do not have the plug and capability to take an external battery
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 3:57:33 PM EDT
So, will this work on my RNVGs?
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 4:14:25 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By towerofpower94:
Ordered yesterday from JRH and it arrived today. Can’t ask for a better shipping time than that.

Mine has the 4 pin external power connection.

Only had a chance to play around in the basement with it mounted on my RNVGs for a few minutes, but so far it seems like an awesome addition.

Planning to take it out Sunday night for an urban hike on a trail through our neighborhood that runs behind houses on one side and the back of light industrial buildings on the other.

I don’t yet have a thermal scope or handheld, but this price seemed too good to pass on.

ETA: @smeeg will your two pin external battery packs work with the four pin connection on the COTI?
View Quote


Yes just got my new coti in and confirmed The battery packs I have in the EE work.
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 5:31:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ss2nv:
So, will this work on my RNVGs?
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Coti? Yes...

Coti battery pack no.
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 7:24:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2020 7:50:43 PM EDT by ss2nv]
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Originally Posted By KPog:


Coti? Yes...

Coti battery pack no.
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Originally Posted By KPog:
Originally Posted By ss2nv:
So, will this work on my RNVGs?


Coti? Yes...

Coti battery pack no.


Why no battery pack?  No room for the connection?

ETA:  Order placed!
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 7:36:38 PM EDT
I’m looking to upgrade to dual tubes in the near future and so far the AIB DTNVG and the upcoming DTNVS housing interest me the most. Does the COTI mount to either of these platforms?
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 8:19:06 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By HKocher:
I’m looking to upgrade to dual tubes in the near future and so far the AIB DTNVG and the upcoming DTNVS housing interest me the most. Does the COTI mount to either of these platforms?
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Should work on either as long as they have the pvs14 objective lenses.
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 8:28:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By pbjunkiee:


The plug on the pas has 4 pins and the connector has two which allows it to be connected in various directions.

What i was stating in that post was that some COTI lile the tacs, and tacs-m do not have the plug and capability to take an external battery
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Originally Posted By pbjunkiee:
Originally Posted By madbarbarian87:


Per pbjunkie in smeegs ee thread:

"There is a 4 prong connector on the back of the pas-29 that this plugs into. If it doesnt have a little black and copper p pin plug next to the batter compartment it will not work."



The plug on the pas has 4 pins and the connector has two which allows it to be connected in various directions.

What i was stating in that post was that some COTI lile the tacs, and tacs-m do not have the plug and capability to take an external battery


Right after I posted that question I had a potential light bulb moment with regards to the four pin input allowing for multiple connecting options for the power cord, but figured I’d leave it and let those smarter than I confirm my assumption.

Thanks for confirming.
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 8:30:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ss2nv:


Why no battery pack?  No room for the connection?

ETA:  Order placed!
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Originally Posted By ss2nv:
Originally Posted By KPog:
Originally Posted By ss2nv:
So, will this work on my RNVGs?


Coti? Yes...

Coti battery pack no.


Why no battery pack?  No room for the connection?

ETA:  Order placed!


Can’t confirm the external battery box will work with it mounted on RNVGs, as I don’t yet have one in hand, but I stared at my hand for a few minutes in my basement with the COTI attached to my RNVGs earlier today and there were no issues
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 8:30:50 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By smeeg:


Yes just got my new coti in and confirmed The battery packs I have in the EE work.
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Originally Posted By smeeg:
Originally Posted By towerofpower94:
Ordered yesterday from JRH and it arrived today. Can’t ask for a better shipping time than that.

Mine has the 4 pin external power connection.

Only had a chance to play around in the basement with it mounted on my RNVGs for a few minutes, but so far it seems like an awesome addition.

Planning to take it out Sunday night for an urban hike on a trail through our neighborhood that runs behind houses on one side and the back of light industrial buildings on the other.

I don’t yet have a thermal scope or handheld, but this price seemed too good to pass on.

ETA: @smeeg will your two pin external battery packs work with the four pin connection on the COTI?


Yes just got my new coti in and confirmed The battery packs I have in the EE work.


Thanks much
Link Posted: 7/18/2020 9:36:50 PM EDT
Wow just used it for about 20 minutes and holy shit this thing is awesome so far. Was able to spot my brother in bushes that I could not see with just night vision. I like the outline mode the best so far.
Link Posted: 7/19/2020 1:39:56 AM EDT
JRH got more of my money. Order placed
Link Posted: 7/19/2020 8:35:21 AM EDT
Apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere, if it has I haven't found it.  Can anyone comment on the standalone capabilities of these units?  I understand this isn't the intended usage, but am curious about how these would compare to something like a Breach.  I'm torn between one of these and a Breach (or similar), and don't know enough about this subject to determine which would add more overall value to a PVS-14 setup.  

Thanks
Link Posted: 7/19/2020 9:17:39 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ewick:
Apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere, if it has I haven't found it.  Can anyone comment on the standalone capabilities of these units?  I understand this isn't the intended usage, but am curious about how these would compare to something like a Breach.  I'm torn between one of these and a Breach (or similar), and don't know enough about this subject to determine which would add more overall value to a PVS-14 setup.  

Thanks
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Word is that standalone usage sucks pretty bad.
Link Posted: 7/19/2020 9:43:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/19/2020 12:45:16 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ewick:
Apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere, if it has I haven't found it.  Can anyone comment on the standalone capabilities of these units?  I understand this isn't the intended usage, but am curious about how these would compare to something like a Breach.  I'm torn between one of these and a Breach (or similar), and don't know enough about this subject to determine which would add more overall value to a PVS-14 setup.  

Thanks
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Honestly the breach or something better will be there when your ready this might not be
Link Posted: 7/19/2020 12:56:33 PM EDT
Is there any manner in which a knucklehead like me could damage a NV tube using Coti?  I know they’re designed to work together, but I’m quite capable of screwing up simple tasks...
Link Posted: 7/19/2020 7:48:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2020 7:49:15 PM EDT by Ironman8]
I’ve watched a number of these videos out there showing the COTI and like another guy posted, it didn’t jump out and grab me...does it just work/look better in person or what? The response to this deal makes me think that might be the case...

Also, how is the weight once it’s clipped into a dual 14 or bino NVD? Is it worth the “full time” added weight or would it be better to have a handheld thermal for scanning areas in front of you?
Link Posted: 7/19/2020 8:13:47 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By slowplay:
Is there any manner in which a knucklehead like me could damage a NV tube using Coti?  I know they’re designed to work together, but I’m quite capable of screwing up simple tasks...
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dont crank up the brightness crazy high and leave it, and you will be fine. it even has a little symbol of the sun that flashes if it thinks it is too bright.
Link Posted: 7/19/2020 8:25:17 PM EDT
Ordered one from JRH. I eagerly await its arrival.  Can never have enough NVG and thermal toys.
Link Posted: 7/19/2020 8:39:23 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ironman8:
I've watched a number of these videos out there showing the COTI and like another guy posted, it didn't jump out and grab me...does it just work/look better in person or what? The response to this deal makes me think that might be the case...

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This was/is me. I was waiting for the Hogster to come back in stock, but went ahead and ordered one anyway. I figure if I don't like it, I sell it off and buy the Hogster. Although in true arfcom, I'll probably end up with both
Link Posted: 7/19/2020 9:05:29 PM EDT
I’m thinking I should tether this thing to the NVG somehow if anyone does this or has done this post some pics.
Link Posted: 7/19/2020 9:26:25 PM EDT
If your running dual pvs14 on a bridge would it need two coti units, one on each pvs?
Link Posted: 7/19/2020 11:08:21 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Ct1:
If your running dual pvs14 on a bridge would it need two coti units, one on each pvs?
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No, running both would seriously mess with you, they have some lag and both of them separately would give you lag independently on each tube.

Sorry its hard to explain.
Link Posted: 7/20/2020 10:04:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By KPog:

No, running both would seriously mess with you, they have some lag and both of them separately would give you lag independently on each tube.

Sorry its hard to explain.
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But the Instagram flex would be insane.

@Ct1: Do it.
Link Posted: 7/20/2020 10:39:13 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ThisWildAdventure:

But the Instagram flex would be insane.

@Ct1: Do it.
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QFT.
Link Posted: 7/20/2020 12:45:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/20/2020 1:45:31 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ironman8:
I’ve watched a number of these videos out there showing the COTI and like another guy posted, it didn’t jump out and grab me...does it just work/look better in person or what? The response to this deal makes me think that might be the case...

Also, how is the weight once it’s clipped into a dual 14 or bino NVD? Is it worth the “full time” added weight or would it be better to have a handheld thermal for scanning areas in front of you?
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Im guessing it’s something you pick up with practice as Augee stated.

I would need a lot of practice bc it looks like a hot mess to me. If an I2 device needs help from thermal detecting a target, how is it going to ID said target?
Link Posted: 7/20/2020 1:55:52 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tacosis:


Im guessing it’s something you pick up with practice as Augee stated.

I would need a lot of practice bc it looks like a hot mess to me. If an I2 device needs help from thermal detecting a target, how is it going to ID said target?
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Think about a deer standing motionless in thick brush in daylight.  

It could be challenging to see that there’s anything there.

If it were at night, with the best I2 device, equally challenging.

When you add the heat signature visible via thermal, you immediately identify the presence of something in the brush and it helps you break the visible camoflage  .
Link Posted: 7/20/2020 2:00:27 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ironman8:
I’ve watched a number of these videos out there showing the COTI and like another guy posted, it didn’t jump out and grab me...does it just work/look better in person or what? The response to this deal makes me think that might be the case...

Also, how is the weight once it’s clipped into a dual 14 or bino NVD? Is it worth the “full time” added weight or would it be better to have a handheld thermal for scanning areas in front of you?
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Best would be to have a high res/mag handheld thermal + a COTI on your nod of choice. Then a thermal scope or i2 scope on your rifle.

In my opinion progression should be i2, laser, thermal handheld, thermal/i2 scope..... then a COTI. If you are hunting coyotes at 2-400 yards the COTI is a waste. If you are spot and stalking pig at 1-200 yards or patrolling an area then it is not a waste.


Link Posted: 7/20/2020 2:28:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/20/2020 2:29:36 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Gthirteen:



Think about a deer standing motionless in thick brush in daylight.  

It could be challenging to see that there’s anything there.

If it were at night, with the best I2 device, equally challenging.

When you add the heat signature visible via thermal, you immediately identify the presence of something in the brush and it helps you break the visible camoflage  .
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Yeah that’s why I sold my Pvs-14 and kit....I couldn’t really see anything well, especially as you said a deer in front of brush.  I can see the benefit of a Coti in that regard big time.
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PAS-29 COTI deal alert (Page 3 of 14)
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