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Posted: 4/10/2002 1:53:00 PM EDT
Hypothetical situation;

Your outfitting the firearms for a group of 5 people other then yourself. All the money you could accumulate is 20 000$ before the apparent fall of the government and everything will go to chaos.

You need to buy the following;
Each needs a weapon, wether a Assault rifle, MBR, or cheap SMG.

You must also buy ammo and mags. Cleaning kits are not optional.

Possible optional choices with leftover money includes uniforms, handguns, explosives, SAW, whatever.

Your firearm and setup does not count out of the 20 000$ but name the gun and accoutrements.

PS: be creative and have fun!
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 2:37:12 PM EDT
I think I would buy 2 of those 80's chevy diesal trucks you know the ones that the military bought and are camo. Then mount .50cals on them, then buy 10 AK's the extras for spares or backups whats that cost around $2000 I am guessing with mags? buy 20,000 rounds of ammo for around $2,000

then get the hell out of the country before the shtf
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 2:42:55 PM EDT
I would take the money and get me a couple of Texas bikini team members and lay on a beach in a country that doesn't allow weapons. We all know that if there's gun control then there is no crime. I'm a lover not a fighter. (Rodney Dangerfield in back to school)
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 3:52:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2002 3:56:17 PM EDT by cluster]
At the time of purchase do you know that the gov-ment is going to chaos.. in which case the price of firearms and ammo go up dramatictly..
also since the gov. is no-more who are we fighting or protecting ourselves from.. Joe down the street. or the cowboy at the ATF that now has nothing to lose < not that they are ever held actountable for thier actions anyway >

Reasons are that if the gov has already or is just about to fall why pay todays prices for Full auto..? the way I see it is if it comes to that point just start converting ar15's into m16's < no, Im not saying turn off the comp and go to the back yard and start digging your up shotgunnews DIAS... yet> Just that at that point survial would be your priority not making sure you didnt load more than 5 rounds in your mag cause a local law says that a no-no..

Hm.. I see now those books I got at the local funshow might actually be OK... gota go now... I need to learn how to make an explosive from tarter controll toothpaste....

DISCLAIMER:
IF YOU ARE AN FBI AGENT TROLLING THE BOARDS, I WAS JUST KIDDING ABOUT THE LAST PART....


Link Posted: 4/10/2002 3:53:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Scarecrow:
Hypothetical situation;

Your outfitting the firearms for a group of 5 people other then yourself. All the money you could accumulate is 20 000$ before the apparent fall of the government and everything will go to chaos.
!



I would save part of the money for school. That way you damn Canadians can learn that the dollar sign ($) goes in front on the numbers!!!

Understand...........eh?

Sgtar15
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 4:00:52 PM EDT
Great mental exercise. Ok, 6 man team factoring weapons and ammo into my 20K, here goes:

4 Bushmaster 20" a3 rifles with Trijicon Reflex II's on the flattop. $4,400

2 DSA SA58 FAL's with Trijicon 4 power ACOG's. $4000

1 Bushmaster 16" a3 carbine with another reflex II on top. $1100


Remington PSS in .308 with Tasco SS 3-9 scope and harris bipod. $1300


Magazines for AR's at $20 each. (10 each man, plus 4 for sniper with carbine) $880

Magazines for FAL's at $10 each NIW. $200

2500 rounds LC M193 for AR's. $500

1000 rounds Portugese .308 for FAL's. $200

200 rounds of Federal Match 168gr BTHP for PSS. $180

LBE, canteens, bandoliers, stripper clips, spoons and web gear for each man. $1000

MRE's for a good while. $1000

The rest ($5000+) would be used for camping equip and thing's I've surely forgotten in this list.

I figure that I'd have 4 guys with AR's for all around duty, 2 guys with FAL's that can reach out if need be, or punch holes in cover and then have one guy with a PSS who can really reach out. The sniper would have the Carbine, just in case he's in the shi*t too.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 4:06:30 PM EDT
Twenty of the cheapest Mausers I can find. That should be about $800 for 20 Turks. Then, I'd have plenty of spare parts, and if we did have to trade a rifle for food, wood, gas, women(just kidding), etc., we'd have plenty. A set of GO, NO-GO, and field gauges so you could safely swap bolt parts around. Ten crates of 720 rounds each of 8mm ammo from FAC for $44.95 each+shipping. Twenty bandoliers (1,400 rounds) of turk 8mm ammo for $80. That would give me reusable stripper clips and andoliers. Two 22LR bolt actions for ~$100 each plus 10,000 rounds of 22LR for about $160. Two bricks (1,000 rounds) of Colibri powderless 22LR for about $25 for when you need to be more quiet. Also, I'd add a few hundred rounds of 22LR "snake-shot." If I want to get extravagant, I'd add a new Taurus 22LR revolver. It's the only new production 9-shot one I know of (please let me know if I'm wrong since I got a friend looking to buy one). I think it's about $250. For cleaning, I'd buy a dozen of the cheap WalMart (Outers brand, I think) kits and a drum of CLP. After running out of cleaning patches, I've got plenty of cloth to cut-up. This is basically the list of what a friend has put together to get him through the nuclear war (yes, he's a nut, but he is prepared) he thinks will happen before the end of this year. He spent just under $2,000 total for everything I listed above. Before he talked to me, he was planning on buying three Bushmaster AR-15's and 3K of 223. While having a more accurate semi-auto with larger mags would be nice, having spare parts and a vastly larger amount of ammo would be worth more. His biggest fear (since he's had it happen to him twice when his son was arrested for selling drugs and once after hurricane Hugo) is having the police take a gun. Having a LEO take one of twenty Mausers would hurt a lot less than one of three Bushmasters. Also, I'd feel more comfortable with about 10K of 8mm and over 11K of 22LR versus 3K of 223.


uniforms, handguns, explosives, SAW, whatever.


Since I live out in the country, I don't see much use in uniforms, a handgun
(beyond the 22LR revolver I mentioned above for snake medicine), explosives,
or crew served full auto weapons. I also wouldn't buy a generator. No matter
how much fuel (it would have to be diesel if you were storing it) you've got
on hand, you just couldn't run it for long enough to matter. You might as well get used to not having electricity. The same goes for trucks, ATV's, chainsaws, etc. A few hundred gallons of diesel, while nice, just wouldn't sustain you for long in the overall scheme of things. Also, I wouldn't buy any fancy radios, walkie talkies, GPS units, etc., because again, batteries are not easily replaced consumables.

Link Posted: 4/10/2002 4:07:01 PM EDT
(cont)
I'd spend most of the rest on food, seed, and human powered farm tools. I've got almost enough firewood to get me through an entire winter. I cut it myself (my back still hurts), so I have no idea how much that would cost if I bought it. Also, I've got two tanks about the size of 55 gallon drums full of propane for my grill that I can use to cook, heat water (I've got a homemade tank that I can sit on the grill that I've used a couple of times when the power was out for 3+ days), and heat the house. I have fresh water behind my house that is safe to drink (the farms and cows are thankfully all downstream). Also, if I had $20K, I'd add a handpump to my well.

Finally, I'd have to acquire some sort of medication to help me get over my ar15.com addiction if it was suddenly shutdown when the SHTF.z
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 4:07:50 PM EDT
Gunbert you forgot NIGHTVISION devices..
Just get one.. you need to save money for unforseen stuff..
but if you need more you can always take get from a dead govt agent

NO really nightvision would be an asset.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 4:26:25 PM EDT
I would probably recommend spending a little less on weapons and more on supplies for a small self sufficient community/militia outpost. Of course you need a couple of ARs but you can also get into equally deadly weapons with SKSs and bolt action rifles. You can have 10 bolt actions with tons of ammo for the price of one AR. Survival supplies will be very important if you have to dig in somewhere.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 4:34:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cluster:
Gunbert you forgot NIGHTVISION devices..
Just get one.. you need to save money for unforseen stuff..
but if you need more you can always take get from a dead govt agent

NO really nightvision would be an asset.




Absolutely right... I hadn't thought of that.

You'd need at least 2 pair of decent NVG setups. Well, there goes my 5k surplus!
Oh, I also left out sidearms! HK USP .45's all around!
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 4:45:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dex:
I would probably recommend spending a little less on weapons and more on supplies for a small self sufficient community/militia outpost. Of course you need a couple of ARs but you can also get into equally deadly weapons with SKSs and bolt action rifles. You can have 10 bolt actions with tons of ammo for the price of one AR. Survival supplies will be very important if you have to dig in somewhere.




I agree somewhat... but my philosophy is to be armed and supplied enough to wait till things cool down a bit, then move back in (or out, as it were). In a true post apocalypse there would be plenty of disorganized survivors who would be more than happy to work the land and provide food in exchange for the security my group could provide them from maurauders.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 4:53:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 4:53:56 PM EDT
Don't know if I'd call it a Milita group ... if the SHTF you better stick to family and really good friends.

I think a bolt action .22, decent scope and supressor if you could get one in time would be valuable assets. Subsonic ammo is readily available at the local sporting goods stores and would attract little attention in the scheme of things. In a SHTF scenario you don't want to attract attention from anyone. I'd probably get ~10K rounds of subsonic .22 for hunting small game, doesn't damage the meat either. That's all of $1,000 including the supressor.

I like the idea of NVD's of some kind, probably PVS-7's - I think those are the goggle type monocular. Excellent for hunting in no light or checking out "bumps" in the night. Would require laying in a stock of batteries - this would be a limited resource as the batteries would eventually all be used or beyond shelf life and unusable. I'd like to think that some form of government will eventually be put back in place even if only locally and manufacturing/trade would resume. I'll set aside $4000 for this even though I think that's excessive.

One long range rifle with a Leupold or comparable optic. Probably something like my Browning Abolt II .308. This gives your group distance and larger game hunting ability. Lay in 2000 rnds of Hirtenberger .308 and 500 rnds of match grade black hills. Let's say that's $2500.

I love my ARs, but I think I'd have to pick up FAL's for the rest of the group for ammo compatibility with the long distance gun. 4 DSA STG-58A's equiped with VOMZ 4x32 russian optics or comparable and quick throw rings in case the optics bite the dust. Lay in another 1000 rnds of Hirt per rifle and we can call that another $4500.

Everyone get's a Smith revolver like a model 10 - no adj. sights to break, .38 special ammo for the ladies and .357 ammo for the guys. I'd lay in maybe 500 rnds of each type of ammo - this ain't practice time here this is serious so we aren't going to be shooting up a storm to attract attention. We can call that $2000 ... probably less.

Probably throw in a .22 pistol with a trijicon reflex for hunting rabbit and squirrel. We need some MRE's and other cooking supplies like SALT, lay in some fire starting materials in sealed containers, and required camping gear if the group is gonna be on the move.

I'm sure there are things I've forgotten, but that's my approach.

Ryan
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 5:04:36 PM EDT
I would outfit them with some standard equipment, AR-15 carbines, a good .308, .45 or 9mm for a sidearm. Equipment would be surplus stuff (ALICE packs, etc.)

Then I would send everyone to Frontsite, or other training facility. No use in buying all the equipment, and then not know how to use it.

Sure it would eat up the budget, but training will take you a long way.

Av.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 5:08:12 PM EDT
... in addition to my earlier post.

I don't have friends/family that don't already have their own weapons and ammo...

Ryan
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 9:45:06 PM EDT
maybe 3 m-14s and 2 .308 deer rifles with nice big scopes. some ammo storage containers where we could bury them in a few different locations. a couple small cheep, high capacity 9mm pistols, tec 9 might work i guess, depending on the money reserves hopefully an uzi or two instead, for going into "town" to scrounge. one of those wind up radios and some of those water filtration pumps that hikers carry. buy maybe some OD cover-alls, some thick work boots and misc dry store foods till my money ran out. lots of aspirin and penicillin too.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 10:29:54 PM EDT
Gunbert,

you need the parts to convert at least one AR lower to a RELIABLE select fire lower, with full auto-not tri-burst, and find from someone, somewhere a belt fed upper. Preferably one that accepts M249 barrels. A SAW is worth its weight in gold. Something like the Aries Shrike. Something that would allow you to use AR mags as well.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 10:36:31 PM EDT
So is that something you can go to the bank for? A "Small Malitia Loan"
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 7:44:41 AM EDT
I can't believe that J. W. Rawles hasn't already made an appearance on this thread.

Let's see... how about 5 FALs, a couple bolt-action .308 "tactical" rifles, about 10,000 rounds of ammo, a couple .22 bolt-action rifles both threaded for one suppressor (for small game and more covert activities), plenty of spare parts for all of the above.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 8:06:27 AM EDT
5 No.4 Mk.1 Lee Enfield Actions, 5 22 inch Krieger heavy barrels chambered for 7.62 NATO threaded for the Actions. A Barrel Wrench, some GO-NO GO Gauges, Some Sheet metal tools to make magazines.

BDU's, Night Vision Scopes, Range Finders, Leupold or Night Force or US Optics Scopes to mount on the rifles.

Spend the rest of the money on Ammo, Reloading Supplies, Rations and Cache Containers

Link Posted: 4/11/2002 8:11:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2002 8:13:04 AM EDT by Spearweasel]
$1000 on a good AR, $1000 on ammo and mags, $2 on a can opener, and $18,000 on beans. Screw those other SOB's...

MY BEANS! NO! NO! GET AWAY! *kapow-kapow-kapow-kapow-kapow-kapow-kapow-kapow- NO! kapow-kapow-kapow-kapow*



Link Posted: 4/11/2002 8:15:06 AM EDT
Thank you, Spearweasel, for making me laugh out loud this morning.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 8:30:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spearweasel:
$1000 on a good AR, $1000 on ammo and mags, $2 on a can opener, and $18,000 on beans. Screw those other SOB's...

MY BEANS! NO! NO! GET AWAY! *kapow-kapow-kapow-kapow-kapow-kapow-kapow-kapow- NO! kapow-kapow-kapow-kapow*







Link Posted: 4/11/2002 9:01:04 AM EDT
a 10/22 and a 38

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