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Posted: 9/23/2011 4:31:27 PM EST
Sorry if this has been beaten to death, I've been reading conflicting things about doing this and search is not helping.

Michigan just allowed suppressors as of a few weeks ago. I'm looking to pick one up and would like to do so via the trust route. I'm going to use Quicken willmaker or whatever to build the trust, this isn't a $20,000 MG and I want to keep things simple. I need the idiot's walkthrough on what gets done 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. This will be my 1st NFA item on a new trust...

I'm confused because I've read that you want to list the supressor as trust property when you first make the trust. How would this be possible if you don't have the serial number yet?

What happens then? I talk to a class III dealer about ordering a suppressor, then fill out the form 1?

Thanks for the help
Link Posted: 9/23/2011 4:40:34 PM EST
The trust doesn't own the suppressor until the transfer to your trust is approved. As such you will not list it as property of the trust. As usual, IANAL, YMMV, etc.

You will also be using a Form 4 to transfer the silencer, not a Form 1. Your dealer will fill out the Form 4 with you, hand it over, and you will send:
2x Form 4
1x copy of trust
1x $200 check
1x 5330.20 (debatable...some examiners require it, some don't. I err on the side of caution myself.)
Link Posted: 9/24/2011 3:00:32 AM EST
You will be purchasing the silencer however it will be held by the dealer until BATFE approval. The serial number will be known and on your Form 4.
You will also need to include an Assignment to Trust with the package you send.

Being somewhat new to Class 3 stuff myself, I'm waiting on 2 approvals, I decided to use guntrustlawyer.com for my trust. Yes, it was several hundred dollars but
was much more inclusive of pertinent issues related to ownership of class 3 weapons than what I would have come up with using generic form making software. I gave both considerable thought but decided to error on the side caution as I believe there is too much at risk to do otherwise. There is plenty of debate on this website regarding the matter so you can do your own due diligence.

Welcome to the Class 3 club
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 9:07:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2011 9:07:25 AM EST by Zcwilkins]
Originally Posted By Kurzhaar1:
You will be purchasing the silencer however it will be held by the dealer until BATFE approval. The serial number will be known and on your Form 4.
You will also need to include an Assignment to Trust with the package you send.

Being somewhat new to Class 3 stuff myself, I'm waiting on 2 approvals, I decided to use guntrustlawyer.com for my trust. Yes, it was several hundred dollars but was much more inclusive of pertinent issues related to ownership of class 3 weapons than what I would have come up with using generic form making software. I gave both considerable thought but decided to error on the side caution as I believe there is too much at risk to do otherwise. There is plenty of debate on this website regarding the matter so you can do your own due diligence.

Welcome to the Class 3 club


Such as?
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 11:33:01 AM EST
You wouldn't list it on your Schedule A until you take ownership of it.

For example...

You buy your first suppressor. You send in the paperwork (nothing listed on your Schedule A). Four +/- months pass. Stamp comes back and you take ownership of suppressor. You decide to buy another one. You send in paperwork (listing previous suppressor on Schedule A).
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 1:39:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By TX_Road_Warrior:
You wouldn't list it on your Schedule A until you take ownership of it.

For example...

You buy your first suppressor. You send in the paperwork (nothing listed on your Schedule A). Four +/- months pass. Stamp comes back and you take ownership of suppressor. You decide to buy another one. You send in paperwork (listing previous suppressor on Schedule A).
Can you create the trust with nothing on it?

Link Posted: 9/27/2011 5:10:38 PM EST
You can list it on the schedule A. I have sent in several over the past few years with no issues. I list them as shown below:

Make (Form 4 submitted waiting approval)
a. Silencer, Serial Number
b. Cal
c. Model

When they get approved I have have it I update my schedule A by removing the (Form 4 submitted waiting approval). I think this accurately reflects the situation. If I were to pass with the form pending then the Trustee would know the asset is in existence and to be prepared for the return of the form. If you don't list it and you pass while pending, how does the trustee know about the asset?

YMMV, I am not an attorney, etc
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 5:14:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By cedjunior:
Can you create the trust with nothing on it?


no, you need something, a lot of people will use a dollar bill
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 8:25:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By hellbound:
Originally Posted By cedjunior:
Can you create the trust with nothing on it?


no, you need something, a lot of people will use a dollar bill


If you want to be really detailed, you attach a checking account to the trust and use that checking account for the purchase of the item and the fee to BATF. If you do this, you have the checking account in the trust as the first item.
Link Posted: 9/28/2011 5:03:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By Zcwilkins:
Originally Posted By Kurzhaar1:
You will be purchasing the silencer however it will be held by the dealer until BATFE approval. The serial number will be known and on your Form 4.
You will also need to include an Assignment to Trust with the package you send.

Being somewhat new to Class 3 stuff myself, I'm waiting on 2 approvals, I decided to use guntrustlawyer.com for my trust. Yes, it was several hundred dollars but was much more inclusive of pertinent issues related to ownership of class 3 weapons than what I would have come up with using generic form making software. I gave both considerable thought but decided to error on the side caution as I believe there is too much at risk to do otherwise. There is plenty of debate on this website regarding the matter so you can do your own due diligence.

Welcome to the Class 3 club


Such as?


I referenced the website in my post so you can do your own research and use what works best for you. Just as I did.

Link Posted: 9/29/2011 11:26:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By hellbound:
Originally Posted By cedjunior:
Can you create the trust with nothing on it?


no, you need something, a lot of people will use a dollar bill


+1

A trust needs something in it to be valid. A one dollar bill is easy.
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