Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 11/9/2007 1:56:58 PM EDT
Anyone have experience with one/all of these? What are your opinions of and experiences with them?

Thanks
Link Posted: 11/9/2007 3:35:46 PM EDT
HEMS2 is great, and the only one listed with a booster. Very quiet wet. Very reliable with the booster system on my HK Tac and 1911.

The other ones do not have booster systems so they may or may not function reliably on all pistol hosts.

I'm not sure if AAC still sells the Tactical. They probably need to update their website. Their Evolution 45 is probably the way to go if you decide to go with them.
Link Posted: 11/14/2007 4:44:17 PM EDT
ive shot the gemtech on a mark23 it never malfunctioned over about 50 rounds, but the set-up wasnt mine thats all i got to shoot.
Link Posted: 11/14/2007 5:36:59 PM EDT
I had a HEMS-2, and have shot an AAC Tactical.The HEMS-2 is a better suppressor.

I have never shot a Blackslide.
Link Posted: 11/14/2007 6:51:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/17/2007 4:50:45 PM EDT
I recently got a SWR HEMS2 and I absolutely love it. It is my first .45 can and it was the best decision I ever made.
Link Posted: 11/18/2007 4:00:02 PM EDT
I've only shot a SWR HEMS II on a full size HK USP Tactical. I've put about 120 rnds through it. No failures. No change in POI. Actually shoots much tighter groups with suppressor mounted. Very quiet wet. Sounds kind of like a paintball gun or high power air rifle.
Link Posted: 11/23/2007 11:23:55 AM EDT
evo-45 is the way to go.
Link Posted: 11/23/2007 3:22:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tangodown911:
evo-45 is the way to go.


Based on?

Weight? dB reduction? Cost? Attachment method? Company Rep?
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 4:50:37 AM EDT
I have a Blackside and love it . nice and reliable just plain fun
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 9:26:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2007 9:29:42 AM EDT by Green0]
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 5:02:51 PM EDT
Stay away from the Blackside. I can only get right around 100 rounds through it before every other round is a FTE. It needs a booster to function reliably. It exhibits this behavior on several pistols, and as yet Gemtech has been unwilling to help me. Having shot it next to several other silencers, an SWR HEMS-II, AAC Evo-45, and KAC OHG, the Blackside was the loudest of the 4 cans.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 5:06:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnnyC:
Stay away from the Blackside. I can only get right around 100 rounds through it before every other round is a FTE. It needs a booster to function reliably. It exhibits this behavior on several pistols, and as yet Gemtech has been unwilling to help me. Having shot it next to several other silencers, an SWR HEMS-II, AAC Evo-45, and KAC OHG, the Blackside was the loudest of the 4 cans.


Changing your recoil spring would cure the feed issues.

Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:12:34 PM EDT
Tried it. It only extends the reliability to about 125 rounds. Besides, it's pretty ridiculous to have to modify a gun that's designed from the factory to use a suppressor. Enough people make quality suppressors that are reliable that there's no reason to waste the money on an unreliable suppressor.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:17:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnnyC:
Tried it. It only extends the reliability to about 125 rounds. Besides, it's pretty ridiculous to have to modify a gun that's designed from the factory to use a suppressor. Enough people make quality suppressors that are reliable that there's no reason to waste the money on an unreliable suppressor.


I've shot a few different Blackside suppressors on about a dozen different pistols and never saw problems like you describe. Most likely it is your pistol that is the problem.



Link Posted: 11/27/2007 6:27:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2007 6:29:49 PM EDT by TaylorWSO]
My Blackside finally came unscrewed. If you get it hot enough the locktite will come loose and the can will unscrew. I have abused it, but if you push it, it could come apart. Just shooting a few round through it on a pistol it should be fine.

I find it a too loud dry, wet its okay but I hate shooting it wet.

Still waiting on a good 45 dry suppressor
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 7:55:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ian187:

Originally Posted By JohnnyC:
Tried it. It only extends the reliability to about 125 rounds. Besides, it's pretty ridiculous to have to modify a gun that's designed from the factory to use a suppressor. Enough people make quality suppressors that are reliable that there's no reason to waste the money on an unreliable suppressor.


I've shot a few different Blackside suppressors on about a dozen different pistols and never saw problems like you describe. Most likely it is your pistol that is the problem.





If you read his post that would mean the problem lies with his several pistols.
Link Posted: 11/27/2007 8:54:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TommyBrown:

Originally Posted By ian187:

Originally Posted By JohnnyC:
Tried it. It only extends the reliability to about 125 rounds. Besides, it's pretty ridiculous to have to modify a gun that's designed from the factory to use a suppressor. Enough people make quality suppressors that are reliable that there's no reason to waste the money on an unreliable suppressor.


I've shot a few different Blackside suppressors on about a dozen different pistols and never saw problems like you describe. Most likely it is your pistol that is the problem.





If you read his post that would mean the problem lies with his several pistols.


Yeah well, he also stated a suppressor with no moving parts was unreliable. Hard to tell what is going on without being there but it sure seems like it is pistol related.

Link Posted: 11/28/2007 2:35:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ian187:

Yeah well, he also stated a suppressor with no moving parts was unreliable. Hard to tell what is going on without being there but it sure seems like it is pistol related.



It is unreliable because, despite what Gemtech says, it weighs too much to reliably cycle on a pistol that is anything less than perfectly clean. Every time I got to the range and see someone with a .45 with the same thread pattern I ask them to put some rounds through it. Every time I see someone with a Blackside I ask them if we can swap cans for a little bit. I also ask them about how reliable it is. The fact is, EVERY SINGLE person that I've let shoot my Blackside on EVERY SINGLE gun refuses to function reliably once the round count begins to climb to around 100 rounds. Same thing with their own personal Blackside cans. It's great for about 100 rounds, after that, It becomes incredibly unreliable. I've have numerous people fire my pistol, it's not a problem with my pistol, nor my grip. Any other boostered can functions flawlessly, even after the Blackside stopped function of my pistol. The very bottom line is that it's an unreliable suppressor if your gun is mildly dirty (approx. 100 rounds). It's not worth saving the extra couple bucks. There's absolutely no reason why a pistol designed for suppressor use should not function. I'm sure I could drop the recoil spring down to absolutely nothing but I refuse to be forced to change it every time I want to shoot unsuppressed. The fact that a lighter recoil spring already didn't work makes me hesitant to try an even lighter one and risk breaking my gun/s. I've had quite a few gunsmiths look at my pistols and there is nothing wrong with any of them. I even sent my fullsize tactical back to HK to have them check it out and tune it up......nothing is wrong with any of my pistols, the problem lies in the boosterless design of the Blackside.

Gemtech has already told me to go pound sand on several occasions when I've asked for help regarding this issue and as such I can't justify ever purchasing a Gemtech can again. It's a pity because I'm fairly happy with my OutbackII, but their lack of help in this matter is pretty disheartening. There's no reason for me to give my money to a company who won't help me fix a problem with their product, when a company like SWR would bend over backwards to make it right. (Not to mention they make a better product in the HEMS-II, quieter too.)
Link Posted: 11/28/2007 3:48:02 AM EDT
What do you want Gemtech to do?

It's a boosterless suppressor. It has a drawback in that it may not be 100% reliable (though I have read many people who say the reliability is acceptable), but it's also shorter, lighter, less expensive, and doesn't have the distracting recoil impulse that booster cans often have.

Everything in life is a trade-off; you set your priorities and make your choice.
Link Posted: 11/28/2007 4:31:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2007 4:35:21 AM EDT by JohnnyC]

Originally Posted By kc3:
What do you want Gemtech to do?

It's a boosterless suppressor. It has a drawback in that it may not be 100% reliable (though I have read many people who say the reliability is acceptable), but it's also shorter, lighter, less expensive, and doesn't have the distracting recoil impulse that booster cans often have.

Everything in life is a trade-off; you set your priorities and make your choice.


I was guaranteed reliability on my .45 tactical, I want Gemtech to follow up on this. There's a difference between what some people consider "acceptable" and what I would consider "acceptable." 100 rounds of reliability isn't acceptable to me. I could understand if they couldn't do anything about the compact tactical or 1911 or a sig, but considering the first e-mail I received stated that it was specifically designed for the USP 45 Tactical and that they guaranteed reliability, I'd at least like them to make an effort to rectify the situation. After going through all the standard "what ammo, limp wristing, recoil spring" questions, they admitted that quite a few people were having problems and I would have to accept it. That to me is no guarantee of reliability. Their last 45 can used a recoil booster and I've never heard of anyone having reliability issues with it. If I had known better I would have searched for an SOS-45 instead of getting the Blackside. Some people have issues with the finish, I'm not a real cosmetic guy so I could care less that it turns gray when it gets warm. However, the fact that I had to locktite the back end cap in because it came unscrewed when it got hot kind of irks me. At least it's an easy fix though, but it shouldn't be an issue at all. How much does locktite or rocksett cost a company? Can't be much if manufacturers include it for mounting flash hiders, so it seems a drop on an end cap threads shouldn't be an oversight.

Oddly enough, it wasn't until I made several statements on this website about the reliability of my can that Kel IM'd me to see if he could help. We'll see if he comes through with the LID he said he was finding for me. It's a simple fix and would save a ton of hassle and bad PR, and should have been an option to begin with. It just sucks that quite a few manufacturers refuse to help until you publicly state trying to get satisfaction. I tried dealing with them directly, but in the end I'd rather use my experience to inform fellow shooters. Who knows, you might not ever have a problem, but I know that I do, and quite a few other people have as well. If I could do it all over again, I would have spent a little more dough and wouldn't have to worry about this at all.
Link Posted: 11/28/2007 5:00:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnnyC:
Oddly enough, it wasn't until I made several statements on this website about the reliability of my can that Kel IM'd me to see if he could help. We'll see if he comes through with the LID he said he was finding for me.


If Gemtech has LID's available for the Blackside, I wouls like one too.
Link Posted: 11/28/2007 5:28:54 AM EDT
I love my Gemtech Viper. But when it comes to a .45 can for a pistol, i'd steer away from the Blackside. I've heard one too many problems come up. AAC's Blackbox sounds interesting, but you'll probably get a Shrike before you'll get a Blackbox. When i muster up the cash, i'm probably going to go with the HEMS II. That's what's been recommended the most to me. The EVO-45 reportedly isn't bad either.
Link Posted: 11/28/2007 5:41:32 AM EDT
Although I don't have personal experience with all the cans listed as options....I have nothing but great things to say about the EVO-45.
Link Posted: 11/28/2007 8:15:19 AM EDT
Rocksett is retail $15 for a 4oz bottle.

www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=1661390&PMT4NO=33555981
Link Posted: 11/28/2007 9:22:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnnyC:
I was guaranteed reliability on my .45 tactical, I want Gemtech to follow up on this.


I wasn't aware that they "guaranteed" 100% reliability.

Pretty ballsy thing to do, in any case.

If they guaranteed 100% reliability, by all means, hold them to that.

Is that guarantee posted/printed somewhere I can see it?
Link Posted: 11/28/2007 3:33:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2007 3:37:01 PM EDT by JohnnyC]
It was in an e-mail. I won't paste private e-mails unless absolutely necessary. They guaranteed reliability on the HK 45 Tactical as that's the gun the suppressor was designed for.


ETA: Resolution is in the process. I will edit to add the outcome.
Link Posted: 11/28/2007 4:52:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnnyC:
Oddly enough, it wasn't until I made several statements on this website about the reliability of my can that Kel IM'd me to see if he could help. We'll see if he comes through with the LID he said he was finding for me. It's a simple fix and would save a ton of hassle and bad PR, and should have been an option to begin with. It just sucks that quite a few manufacturers refuse to help until you publicly state trying to get satisfaction. I tried dealing with them directly, but in the end I'd rather use my experience to inform fellow shooters. Who knows, you might not ever have a problem, but I know that I do, and quite a few other people have as well. If I could do it all over again, I would have spent a little more dough and wouldn't have to worry about this at all.


Man, I'm sorry to hear that you're having troubles with a Gemtech can. I think Kel will take care of you though. He has already bent over backwards for a HVT that I have and I plan on doing a write up on what happened soon. I'm having slight accuracy issues right now, but once I get it worked out I'll post the results of the CS that I received along with a good range report.

Hang tight a little longer and see what Kel and Gemtech do for you.

-X
Link Posted: 11/28/2007 7:46:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Black-X:
Man, I'm sorry to hear that you're having troubles with a Gemtech can. I think Kel will take care of you though. He has already bent over backwards for a HVT that I have and I plan on doing a write up on what happened soon. I'm having slight accuracy issues right now, but once I get it worked out I'll post the results of the CS that I received along with a good range report.

Hang tight a little longer and see what Kel and Gemtech do for you.

-X


I have no doubt that Kel will help me resolve this after talking back and forth. The thing that upset me the most was the rest of their CS that refused to help me initially, and it took bringing my problems to the public eye in order to get someone to step up and really try and help me. I should shortly be sending my can off to Gemtech for whatever work is required to ensure reliability, and I'm sure I'll be happy with the resolution.
Link Posted: 11/29/2007 8:35:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnnyC:

Originally Posted By Black-X:
Man, I'm sorry to hear that you're having troubles with a Gemtech can. I think Kel will take care of you though. He has already bent over backwards for a HVT that I have and I plan on doing a write up on what happened soon. I'm having slight accuracy issues right now, but once I get it worked out I'll post the results of the CS that I received along with a good range report.

Hang tight a little longer and see what Kel and Gemtech do for you.

-X


I have no doubt that Kel will help me resolve this after talking back and forth. The thing that upset me the most was the rest of their CS that refused to help me initially, and it took bringing my problems to the public eye in order to get someone to step up and really try and help me. I should shortly be sending my can off to Gemtech for whatever work is required to ensure reliability, and I'm sure I'll be happy with the resolution.


Please start another thread for the resolution. If this one pops up again in my active list in three months I may not read it...

Link Posted: 12/1/2007 1:56:00 AM EDT
I've got a Hems-2, and I am fairly confident in saying there is nothing comparable at it's price point, not to mention that SWR's customer service is second to NONE!!!
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 6:23:16 PM EDT
I got a GemTech Blackside brand new and it was unreliable out of the box. Plus after 60 rounds the loctite gave out and the back unscrewed. I have a full size USP tactical, and I too do not think that I should have to change the springs out. What if I forgot about it and shot it without the suppressor on it? If GemTech ever decides to make a booster for it or upgrade it then I'll call them, but after hearing over and over from other owners the lack of support to resolve this I will not contact them. I will also not buy any other products from them either, unless they fix this or offer a trade in for a different model or something that makes me happy. Bottom line is I have a $595 silencer tied to a $200 tax stamp that is now a safe queen. And the only reason why its a safe queen is because I cant even shoot a full magazine with out problems. If I got another pistol silencer I'd steer away from 45 cans anyways. 9mm is the way to go, much more quiet dry and even better wet.
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 8:58:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kalikraven:
I got a GemTech Blackside brand new and it was unreliable out of the box. Plus after 60 rounds the loctite gave out and the back unscrewed. I have a full size USP tactical, and I too do not think that I should have to change the springs out. What if I forgot about it and shot it without the suppressor on it? If GemTech ever decides to make a booster for it or upgrade it then I'll call them, but after hearing over and over from other owners the lack of support to resolve this I will not contact them. I will also not buy any other products from them either, unless they fix this or offer a trade in for a different model or something that makes me happy. Bottom line is I have a $595 silencer tied to a $200 tax stamp that is now a safe queen. And the only reason why its a safe queen is because I cant even shoot a full magazine with out problems. If I got another pistol silencer I'd steer away from 45 cans anyways. 9mm is the way to go, much more quiet dry and even better wet.


Blacksides dont have LCD/Nielson boosters do they?
That's a fucking shame... if not.

Put it on the end of a camp carbine or something.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 7:42:02 AM EDT
No they do not have a LID or Nielson Device or booster or whatever you want to call it. I got it for my USP Tactical and it is threaded for it. Sure I could go out and buy something with a fixed barrel or a carbine for it but that's not the point. It was made for the Tactical and mine wont run. I'd really like to see them retrofit it with a booster, that would make me happy. Or better yet if I could trade it in for a Trinity. Maybe I will give them a call and see how good thier customer service is. For what its worth AAC's non boostered Tactical has'st gotten the best reviews either. Bottem line 45 cans need a booster.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 7:55:04 AM EDT
I am very happy with my HEMS-2, have ran about 650 rounds through it - and it was a demo when I bought it.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:02:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kalikraven:
No they do not have a LID or Nielson Device or booster or whatever you want to call it. I got it for my USP Tactical and it is threaded for it. Sure I could go out and buy something with a fixed barrel or a carbine for it but that's not the point. It was made for the Tactical and mine wont run. I'd really like to see them retrofit it with a booster, that would make me happy. Or better yet if I could trade it in for a Trinity. Maybe I will give them a call and see how good thier customer service is. For what its worth AAC's non boostered Tactical has'st gotten the best reviews either. Bottem line 45 cans need a booster.


I know it may not help and you may already be aware of it, but their .40 Blackslide comes with a booster.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 10:12:22 AM EDT
I've got a Blackside and a Hems2 that I use on a Tactical. I got everything new.
My Blackside has only failed to cycle once since and that was within the first 50 rounds of ever shooting my Tactical.
Since then, it has yet to have a malfunction after at least 500 rounds.
In comparing the Blackside and the Hems2, I think the Hems2 is quieter dry and stays quieter longer w/ coolant.
However, since both are wet cans, I prefer to shoot the Blackside more IF I'm using coolant since it IS BOOSTERLESS.
Why? Because, I don't like getting splattered w/ the dirty coolant. When using a boostered can, it is always more messy for the shooter.

If I don't feel like recharging the suppressor w/ coolant then I put the Hems2 on.

Just my 2 cents from a recreational shooter. If I was using this stuff for a living then maybe I wouldn't care about getting splattered in the face.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 10:25:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By amphibian:
I've got a Blackside and a Hems2 that I use on a Tactical. I got everything new.
My Blackside has only failed to cycle once since and that was within the first 50 rounds of ever shooting my Tactical.
Since then, it has yet to have a malfunction after at least 500 rounds.
In comparing the Blackside and the Hems2, I think the Hems2 is quieter dry and stays quieter longer w/ coolant.
However, since both are wet cans, I prefer to shoot the Blackside more IF I'm using coolant since it IS BOOSTERLESS.
Why? Because, I don't like getting splattered w/ the dirty coolant. When using a boostered can, it is always more messy for the shooter.

If I don't feel like recharging the suppressor w/ coolant then I put the Hems2 on.

Just my 2 cents from a recreational shooter. If I was using this stuff for a living then maybe I wouldn't care about getting splattered in the face.


Then why did GemTech add a booster?
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 11:03:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2007 11:09:17 AM EDT by amphibian]


Then why did GemTech add a booster?


Actually, I spoke to them at the SAR show on Friday.
I told them the same thing I just stated above.
They mentioned the Blackside booster and that it decreases the life of the host pistol to booster it if it didn't need it.
But for a military application, life of the host pistol is not as important as 100% functioning.
I'm just restating what was told to me. I have no experience w/ torture testing cans w/ or w/o boosters.
I have the boostered Hems2 and while I don't think its harmful to the host gun, I haven't shot it alot either.
I think I've also heard that HK only warrants the Knights can and the BT (swiss made one not the US clone) on their Mk23 Socom. Not sure about their position on the Tactical.
They only warrant those two cans since they have had extensive testing done w/ those cans on the Mk23. I think that other designs caused some mechanical failures. This may be outdated information so excuse me if it is not totally correct.

Again, I'm a recreational shooter. I'm just happy that my Blackside + Tactical has proven itself to be very reliable for ME (zero malfunctions in the past 450+ rounds) as I do not like boostered pistols. So when Gemtech, DOES release a booster for the .45 Blackside, you will not see one on my Tactical.
Again, If my life depended on it and I got my equipment for FREE, my opinion may be different.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 1:04:20 PM EDT
Maybe HK saw that the B&T and KAC suppressors were reliable with the Tactical and others were not. Surely had they done a test with the GemTech Blackside or AAC Tactical they would have ran into problems. Just my guess. But those two suppressors were not around when the Tactical first came out, so they were not tested.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 1:13:55 PM EDT
Any of you Blackside haters want to sell one cheap?

I need a couple for 2 Uzis
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 1:38:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By amphibian:


Then why did GemTech add a booster?


Actually, I spoke to them at the SAR show on Friday.
I told them the same thing I just stated above.
They mentioned the Blackside booster and that it decreases the life of the host pistol to booster it if it didn't need it.
But for a military application, life of the host pistol is not as important as 100% functioning.
I'm just restating what was told to me. I have no experience w/ torture testing cans w/ or w/o boosters.
I have the boostered Hems2 and while I don't think its harmful to the host gun, I haven't shot it alot either.
I think I've also heard that HK only warrants the Knights can and the BT (swiss made one not the US clone) on their Mk23 Socom. Not sure about their position on the Tactical.
They only warrant those two cans since they have had extensive testing done w/ those cans on the Mk23. I think that other designs caused some mechanical failures. This may be outdated information so excuse me if it is not totally correct.

Again, I'm a recreational shooter. I'm just happy that my Blackside + Tactical has proven itself to be very reliable for ME (zero malfunctions in the past 450+ rounds) as I do not like boostered pistols. So when Gemtech, DOES release a booster for the .45 Blackside, you will not see one on my Tactical.
Again, If my life depended on it and I got my equipment for FREE, my opinion may be different.


Interesting logic. This reminds me of what the G5 defense was when it fell apart in testing - as it turns out not being a fully welded core.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 1:39:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cpermd:
Any of you Blackside haters want to sell one cheap?

I need a couple for 2 Uzis


Are these for FA or semi UZI's?

I was thinking about using my Blackside for one of my FA UZI's but since it's a wet can, I haven't bothered.
I've been talking to Gemtech about doing a UMP can w/ a "Mossad" UZI mount. I was told to ask again after the Shot Show.
They do have the UMP can available w/ a thread mount but I'd prefer the UZI mount.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 2:10:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By amphibian:

Originally Posted By cpermd:
Any of you Blackside haters want to sell one cheap?

I need a couple for 2 Uzis


Are these for FA or semi UZI's?

I was thinking about using my Blackside for one of my FA UZI's but since it's a wet can, I haven't bothered.
I've been talking to Gemtech about doing a UMP can w/ a "Mossad" UZI mount. I was told to ask again after the Shot Show.
They do have the UMP can available w/ a thread mount but I'd prefer the UZI mount.


This type of silencer would run out of juice on an UZI before one magazine was finished.
Top Top