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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/17/2005 7:58:27 PM EDT
I've purchased a Rem 870 Express Super Mag, and I've been wanting to dress it up a little. My main debate is if I should stick with an 8 shot mag extension so I can have a shorter (20") barrel, or if I should go all out and get the 10 shot, which requires about 26" of barrel to be under. I'm leaning towards the Tac Star brand, mainly because it is made from steel and not polymer. Any thoughts?? My overall goal is to have a nice home defense piece that is a capable and fun to shoot gun. Here are my thought for what I need to get it running:

Speedfeed stock set--I really like the III model or whatever it is that lets you keep spares in the butt and has the separate PG, and I'd probably get the horizontal forend to match.
Magazine extension--probably Tac Star, but I'm open to suggestions, and debating between 8 and 10 shot
Side Saddle--probably a 6 rnd model, but 4 is okay too, maker isn't as critical
I've already got a set of Hi Visibility dot sights that remind me of a set of Glock night sights that should work well.

Anything else I need to make a nice shotgun?? I might go uber-tactical and get the bandoleer and shell carrier sling, but that can come later. Thanks for the input.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 8:13:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dar48:
I've purchased a Rem 870 Express Super Mag, and I've been wanting to dress it up a little. My main debate is if I should stick with an 8 shot mag extension so I can have a shorter (20") barrel, or if I should go all out and get the 10 shot, which requires about 26" of barrel to be under. I'm leaning towards the Tac Star brand, mainly because it is made from steel and not polymer. Any thoughts?? My overall goal is to have a nice home defense piece that is a capable and fun to shoot gun. Here are my thought for what I need to get it running:

Speedfeed stock set--I really like the III model or whatever it is that lets you keep spares in the butt and has the separate PG, and I'd probably get the horizontal forend to match.
Magazine extension--probably Tac Star, but I'm open to suggestions, and debating between 8 and 10 shot
Side Saddle--probably a 6 rnd model, but 4 is okay too, maker isn't as critical
I've already got a set of Hi Visibility dot sights that remind me of a set of Glock night sights that should work well.

Anything else I need to make a nice shotgun?? I might go uber-tactical and get the bandoleer and shell carrier sling, but that can come later. Thanks for the input.



Ok....

Before you go out and buy all this stuff.....

Tape the number of shells you have chosen to the gun/sling

Now move the shotgun as if comming on target...

8+1 and a side saddle to balance it should be enough... if you want more ammo on hand consider an AR with frangable ammo.

The shorter the barrel the faster and easier to move.
For home /tactical use I'd consider 20" tops.(to include the magazine)
If you are doing gun games then suit yourself.

Horizonal foregrips look cool... but the only one I've seen that actually made sense was on a bullpup.

Nightsights are cool... but a Surefire foreend is a better option.. you can identify your target and blind it at the same time.
(Precludes shooting your son's girlfriend in the dead of the night)

Your mileage may vary.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 8:23:32 PM EDT
Got the 870 to 20in barrel, rear top folding stock, foreward pistol grip, 7rd mag



Link Posted: 9/17/2005 11:00:18 PM EDT
In magazine extensions, all of them are steel, except the ATI plastic version.
Good extensions are the Remington factory model, the Wilson/Scattergun, the Vang, and Choate.

I rate the Tac-Star below those due to a past history of Tac-Star quality defects like mis-aligned tubes, and out of round couplings.

I always used and recommended Choate extensions for their price/quality/availability/options available.

The Choate comes in lengths to fit 18" to 26" barrels, and in satin black sulfate or parkerized finishes.

The main reason I like the Choate is, it comes as a complete kit.
You get the steel extension, a high-grade long spring, a heavy-duty magazine follower, a sling swivel, and the all-important barrel clamp.

USE THE BARREL CLAMP, even on short barrel guns.
The clamp prevents knocking the extension off the gun with a bump, which damages the GUN's magazine tube.
This costs an expensive trip back to Remington to have a new tube installed.

For an inside-the-house-gun, I personally recommend an 18" barrel with or without a Choate extension.
Forget the gimmick's like folding stocks, forward pistol grips, pistol grip-only stocks, electric sights and other add-on's until you've had a chance to shoot the gun.

Most of that stuff, you'll probably take right back off after actually shooting the gun and discovering it actually slows you down and REDUCES the gun's effectiveness.

On HD shotguns "Less Is More".
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 12:14:28 AM EDT
I'll second the "less is more" for home defense.

The real question is, how much do you intend to shoot this gun?

If you are going to shoot it occasionally and you are wanting to "tac it out" then go for it. My only word of caution is be familiar with the gun if it is for self defense.

If you intend to shoot this gun a lot, then you should clean it a lot (cleaning a gun involves more than a bore snake and a can aerosol cleaner). At this point you should ask yourself if you are a patient person. A sidesaddle shell holder and a magazine tube extension are items that have to be removed to disassemble and clean the gun. You are adding items that must be uninstalled and reinstalled every time you clean the gun. After the magazine clamp puts a nice scratch on your barrel, and you get tired of fighting that longer stiffer spring, you'll understand what I'm getting at.

You said "horizontal" forend. Did you mean pistolgrip? I've used them and have one on my HD shotgun. My main reason for using one is dampening the recoil abuse to my shoulder. I recently discovered the SVL LimbSaver recoil pads so my thinking on these has changed slightly.

I love SpeedFeed's pistolgrip buttstocks. They are extremely well designed. I have several different stocks from them and they all make me regret ever buying any other brand. Whatever you decide, you can't go wrong with SpeedFeed.

An alternative to the sidesaddle (receiver mounted) is a stock mounted shell holder. I tried this on my HD gun and really like it


Three more things on mag extensions.
-The Tac Star extension that adds two shells doesn't always give you two more shells. The lengths of 2 3/4" shells varry and you may find that you can only get one more. The Tac Star extension needs to be about 1/2" longer. I can't give any advice from experience on the other brands.
-To avoid scratching the barrel, I have switched to ATI barrel clamps. They are made of plastic. They work.
-Does your shotgun have the dimples toward the end of the magazine tube? If so they will have to be drilled/ground out before the extension will be effective.

Illumination for the gun is a very good idea. From all of the lights I have mounted on various shotguns, all of them have done an excellent job of illuminating the factory sights or beads. Now, if you don't have a light mounted to your gun, and you find yourself holding a flashlight and a shotgun, you might find yourself in an awkward/unconfortable/painful situation. Here's what happened to me www.2guntom.com/shotguns/winchester4.html

Just some thoughts from many years of aftermarket parts installations on several guns. Hope it helps.

2guntom
2guntom.com
454 Casull

Link Posted: 9/20/2005 9:29:29 AM EDT


My HD gun, Mossy 590 20", 12+1 on-gun capacity.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 2:13:45 PM EDT
Home defense implies you will likely be inside if/when the gun is delpoyed. Moving through a house/building with a long gun can be tricky and the longer the gun is, the trickier it gets. I'd suggest an 18" barrel, which will allow for a Remington +2 extension tube with no problems at all.

The Davis Speed-Feed IV 13" combo stick is well-designed and seems quite rugged. Any stock with joints or swivels detract from it's ability to be used as a club, should the situation dictate. Also, in a HD situation, concealment or portability should not really be issues, which are primary reasons for collapsable stocks in the first place. The shorter OAL of the 13' IV makes handling all the easier in close quarters, allows for wearing body armor, and better-fits smaller-framed shooters Loading from a receiver-mounted shell carrier is much easier and quicker than the shells stored in the Speed Feed stock. I have plenty of experience with both and I definitely prefer the receiver-mounted system.

Tritium sights are nice but a weapon-mounted light, such as the Surefire fore end, is always better. SG's recoil violently, so don't cheap-out on a light and mount. Junk will soon follow the laws of gavity and find itself on the floor, in pieces. If your equipment/mounts won't stand up to a few hundred rounds of full-power ammo, then consider something else.

The 4-shot receiver-mounted shell carrier will allow you to grasp the receiver without the saddle getting in the way. The 6-shot version will not (at least not easily/gracefully). This is particularly useful in grasipng the gun to reload or clear malfunctions when the barrel is very hot.

I also think that accessories should be bought only after you become familiar with the gun. Go to a shotgun course, such as the one offered by Rob Haught and you'll see what you need and what is just window dressing.

My HD gun is a parkerized, factory rifle-sighted, 18" 870P (factory +2 extension) with a 4-shot Tac Star side saddle and Speed Feed IV stock.

Good luck and stay safe
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 3:34:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 3:36:36 PM EDT by Ardenner]
I have a Benelli M1 tactical form home defense. It has an 18.5" barrel and does not have the mag extension because that is at least somewhat legally questionable, and if I have to use it I want to be sure as hell I am not killing someone with an illegal firearm. The way I see it - in a home invasion scenario if you can't neutralize the target with 6 rounds of No. 1 Buck you are going to need something more than a shotgun like maybe a SAW. Also I do not have a side saddle as it can cause recoil operated shotguns not to cycle- I’ve never seen it happen but I would hate for it to happen when I need it most. There is a box of ammo in my night stand if it really becomes necessary.

Back to barrel length - If i can shoot skeet well with an 18.5" barrel, I fail to see why anything longer than 18.5" is necessary for a weapon I am going to be using at ranges of 10 yards or less.

ETA- I have ghost ring sights on mine, but in reality you can just point and shoot with a shotgun at that range, aiming is not required. This is why I think those FN police shotguns are sort of ridiculous, why do you need a rifle sight unless you are shooting slugs?
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 3:40:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 3:42:41 PM EDT by photoman]
Anything under 14inches and on a 5.56x45mm chambered rifle.


But if it has to be a shotty, then anything under 14inches and in 12ga.

ETA: if this is a home defense gun a 26 in barrel is not practical either is a 20 in or an 18.5 inch. You want the shortest barrel you can get for mobility reasons. Just something to think about. If you live in an NFA friendly state think about getting an "entry" type shotty. Though that does mean going through all the C3 purchasing hoops, but well worth it.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 3:48:56 PM EDT
Okay, thanks everyone for the Input. I will be looking into the Choate mag extension (thanks for the quality Heads-up) probably an 8 or 9 shot, and a Speedfeed III or IV probably. When I said Horizontal foregrip I meant similar to a factory one (Not a Pistol Grip). I agree with everyone as to the limited usefulness. The "night sights" will be a permanent part of the arrangement, but I did also intend to get some kind of tactical lighting system, so thanks for the ideas on those. The shotgun will mainly be a project for me. Right now it is an 870 Express Super Mag witha 30" vent rib barrel. My thoughts are to install the mag tube, chop the barrel, install my "sights," and hopefully a nice stock set. I like the separate pistol grip on the back, meaning it is separate from the buttstock. I like the idea of a solid, non-folding butt, but with the separate grip. It just feels better to me. Thanks for the ideas, and if anyone has anymore, please send them my way.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 3:58:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 4:25:21 PM EDT
I personally feel that 20" with its 7-round tube is better than 18.5" with a 6-shot tube. Mag capacity is very important to me, but a 26" barrel is just too long to justify the extra capacity.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 6:35:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dar48:
Okay, thanks everyone for the Input. I will be looking into the Choate mag extension (thanks for the quality Heads-up) probably an 8 or 9 shot, and a Speedfeed III or IV probably.


Go with the Speedfeed IV.
The mag tubes on the III are no good and you are limited on other options such as slings and cheek rests.
I had the III and switched to the IVs.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:17:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lu380:
I personally feel that 20" with its 7-round tube is better than 18.5" with a 6-shot tube. Mag capacity is very important to me, but a 26" barrel is just too long to justify the extra capacity.



If mag capacity is an issue, why not go with a pistol or a rifle?? Way better mag capacity with those.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:56:45 AM EDT
Pistol grip stock vs. non pistol grip stock on my 870?

I have a pistol grip speedefeed stock right now, but there are a couple things I don't like about it.

I cannot hit the safety without rotating my grip, and I cannot hit the slide release without taking my hand almost completely off the grip.

What do you guys think? I also like the pc-ness of the non pistol-grip stock.

Link Posted: 9/21/2005 1:04:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2005 1:05:27 PM EDT by photoman]

Originally Posted By Opesus:
Pistol grip stock vs. non pistol grip stock on my 870?

I have a pistol grip speedefeed stock right now, but there are a couple things I don't like about it.

I cannot hit the safety without rotating my grip, and I cannot hit the slide release without taking my hand almost completely off the grip.

What do you guys think? I also like the pc-ness of the non pistol-grip stock.




I have almost the same issues, but I have a mosberg so the safety is on top, the slide release I can hit from mine. I just don't like the fit of the stock to my gun. There is a nice large gap between the PG and the trigger guard, and the LOP is way to long for my comfort. It was totaly bad stock choice on my part. But I also don't shoot it a lot and it doesn't figure into my HD plans at all. So it sits and waits for an eventual SBS stamp, ACE sidefolder and a 12in barrel. But I do prefer a PG over a traditional stock on the shotgun, I actually prefer a vert grip too in it as it's more natural as far as the grip/racking goes I also have more control of it that way.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 1:53:24 PM EDT
OK... Well, to answer the original question asked: "what's a good length for a "tactical"/home defense barrel??"

I believe the answer is clear. Shorter is better. You don't need to be tripping over your barrel and knocking stuff over as you're dodging for cover and doing flips over the living room sofa and peeking around the corner and stuff.

My 870P has an 18" barrel with factory extension (7 round) + 6 on the side saddle. That gives me 13 rounds and if you can't solve a home defense battle with that many rounds out of a shotgun, then consider taking lessons or choosing a semi-auto high cap handgun or rifle.

Also, I went with the Surefire picatinny rail forend so that I can mount my own light (G2) and VG (KAC) which gives me much better control and follow up.

I just receive my SpecOps stock which I have yet to try out but have heard nothing but excellent reviews. If it's as good as I'm hearing, it's the perfect stock for home defense.

And since I've just finished mounting my new stock, I thought I'd share a pic of my 'Utlimate Home Defense System"

Link Posted: 9/21/2005 1:56:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2005 1:57:07 PM EDT by photoman]

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
OK... Well, to answer the original question asked: "what's a good length for a "tactical"/home defense barrel??"

I believe the answer is clear. Shorter is better. You don't need to be tripping over your barrel and knocking stuff over as you're dodging for cover and doing flips over the living room sofa and peeking around the corner and stuff.

My 870P has an 18" barrel with factory extension (7 round) + 6 on the side saddle. That gives me 13 rounds and if you can't solve a home defense battle with that many rounds out of a shotgun, then consider taking lessons or choosing a semi-auto high cap handgun or rifle.

Also, I went with the Surefire picatinny rail forend so that I can mount my own light (G2) and VG (KAC) which gives me much better control and follow up.

I just receive my SpecOps stock which I have yet to try out but have heard nothing but excellent reviews. If it's as good as I'm hearing, it's the perfect stock for home defense.

And since I've just finished mounting my new stock, I thought I'd share a pic of my 'Utlimate Home Defense System"

i14.photobucket.com/albums/a346/niceguymr/DSC01977.jpg



I'd say tht if it's going to be the primary HD gun DO take a class or 12 on fighting with a shotgun.

Also can you tell me about that front end on yer gun? where did you find the forend?? Hows the LOP on the stock??
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 2:06:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2005 2:23:16 PM EDT by niceguymr]

Originally Posted By photoman:
Also can you tell me about that front end on yer gun? where did you find the forend?? Hows the LOP on the stock??



The forend is Surefire and the light is a Surefire G2 with a TDI (I think) mount. The VG is by KAC. In the previous picture, I've got these rail covers on that are made by Falcon Ind. and are available at Brownells. rail covers The LOP is adjustable between 11.25" and 15.25".
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 2:26:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By niceguymr:

Originally Posted By photoman:
Also can you tell me about that front end on yer gun? where did you find the forend?? Hows the LOP on the stock??



The forend is Surefire and the light is a Surefire G2 with a TDI (I think) mount. The VG is by KAC. In the previous picture, I've got these rail covers on that are made by Falcon Ind. and are available at Brownells. rail covers The LOP is adjustable between 11.25" and 15.25".
i14.photobucket.com/albums/a346/niceguymr/DSC01944.jpg



Have you shot it set up like that yet? I saw you said you just got it put on but wasn't sure if you shot it yet. I'd like to hear how you like it once you do. My biggest pet peeeve with shotguns is the LOP eeven with the factory stock on mine it always seemed to long for me.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 2:30:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:
Have you shot it set up like that yet? I saw you said you just got it put on but wasn't sure if you shot it yet. I'd like to hear how you like it once you do. My biggest pet peeeve with shotguns is the LOP eeven with the factory stock on mine it always seemed to long for me.



Unfortunately, I haven't shot it with this setup yet. I took it to the range last weekend, and after firing a few rounds through my AR, a lightning storm blew over and shut down the range (county park facility). The LOP shouldn't be a problem with this stock since it's adjustable (and you can even shave off another 1/2" or so by removing the buttpad, but I don't see the point in that.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 2:33:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By niceguymr:

Originally Posted By photoman:
Have you shot it set up like that yet? I saw you said you just got it put on but wasn't sure if you shot it yet. I'd like to hear how you like it once you do. My biggest pet peeeve with shotguns is the LOP eeven with the factory stock on mine it always seemed to long for me.



Unfortunately, I haven't shot it with this setup yet. I took it to the range last weekend, and after firing a few rounds through my AR, a lightning storm blew over and shut down the range (county park facility). The LOP shouldn't be a problem with this stock since it's adjustable (and you can even shave off another 1/2" or so by removing the buttpad, but I don't see the point in that.



Cool, about the LOP stuff not the storm keeping you from shooting it. I'm kinda torn because i want a spec-ops stock but at the same time I'm going for as compact as possible with my SBS so a side folder works better in tht regard. But I may just buy an 870 to mod out for the SBS and leave the mossberg as a fullsize fighting shotgun. Still haven't fully decided. Look forward to the range report on the shotty.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 11:43:37 PM EDT
Here's my 2 cents.

18" barrel. Easier to move around indoors. 14" if you live in an SBS-legal state and can endure the $200 tax and long wait for NFA approval.

Use the shortest magazine extension you can fit on the gun. If you are not a police officer engaging bank robbers, it's doubtful you'll fire more than 5 rounds, in which case you can transition to your sidearm. You'll never use a 10-round magazine unless you're shooting a 3-gun match. Longer springs = less reliability.

Side-saddle unit provides quick reloads. Make sure that if you have different ammo types, one type is base down and the other base up, so you can tell by feel what you are loading.

You definitely will want a Surefire Weaponlight forened for positive target identification. Cheaper than one hour of a lawyer's time (I know, I charge $350/hr.)

Use #4 buckshot for indoors. Plenty of power and less penetration danger (but still plenty dangerous from a penetration standpoint).

Replace the magazine follower with a high visibility unit that will also reduce spring bind.

Consider an oversized safety button.

Buy plenty of ammo and practice.

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