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Link Posted: 9/11/2012 2:45:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By Accomplice1:
Originally Posted By GreaseMonkey_AP:
Originally Posted By Accomplice1:
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
less lube and enviromental sensitivites are a myth, less lube equils siezed pistons and heavy objects, as for enviromental, most piston guns still have not figured it out.



I've experienced it first hand. The DI guns just don't go as long without a FTF. Plus some mags that I had labeled as bad since they were poor performers in the AR platform were flawless in other platforms. The AR is light, has huge aftermarket support but is far from the best platform available these days. But then again, why should it be? It is a legacy platform developed decades ago.


You do realize pistons are older than DI by a decent amount, right?  Further so long as you keep most decent quality ARs lubed then your GTG.

You do realize the new platforms have been developed using pistons right?

Also, thereis that it's GTG 'so long as' disclaimer. There are now more reliable platforms that don't requirethe disclaimers.


+1, or a gallon of Mobile-1 to be carried in the back pocket....

Link Posted: 9/12/2012 11:42:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2012 11:48:13 PM EST by GreaseMonkey_AP]
Originally Posted By LIONHART:
Originally Posted By Accomplice1:
Originally Posted By GreaseMonkey_AP:
Originally Posted By Accomplice1:
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
less lube and enviromental sensitivites are a myth, less lube equils siezed pistons and heavy objects, as for enviromental, most piston guns still have not figured it out.



I've experienced it first hand. The DI guns just don't go as long without a FTF. Plus some mags that I had labeled as bad since they were poor performers in the AR platform were flawless in other platforms. The AR is light, has huge aftermarket support but is far from the best platform available these days. But then again, why should it be? It is a legacy platform developed decades ago.


You do realize pistons are older than DI by a decent amount, right?  Further so long as you keep most decent quality ARs lubed then your GTG.

You do realize the new platforms have been developed using pistons right?

Also, thereis that it's GTG 'so long as' disclaimer. There are now more reliable platforms that don't requirethe disclaimers.


+1, or a gallon of Mobile-1 to be carried in the back pocket....



Incorrect.  Despite popular myth ALL piston systems require roughly, same level of maintenance to keep them running propperly (and some actually require moar!) which is to say both DI and piston don't require much.. *gasp*

Link Posted: 9/16/2012 7:31:30 PM EST
What are the major issues with gas piston guns?

Well, in the case of AR gas pistons you've got the issue of carrier tilt, but that's not an issue with the ARX-160 that was designed from the ground up to be a GP gun.

Weight.  Beretta is trying to get around this through a polymer body with a metal skeleton and for a rifle with rails the ARX-160 is pretty light stock.  They've definitely beaten the ACR and FNH SCAR in that category.

Bulk. We'll see on this one. However, right now in the AR market 'thin is in" when it comes to foregrip and rails.  ARX-160 is probably not going to score well in this category.

Adaptability.  It's a MIL rifle not built for the civilian market and the MIL doesn't let you change out pistol grips and rails.  It scores low in this category simply because it's not made for us.

Accuracy.  I don't really care about the insignificant edge the DI AR has in accuracy, because in terms of actual utility defensive use it doesn't matter.

Price.  They tend to be up there in price. However, Beretta has a history of competitive pricing.

What are the pros?

You're just cleaning the pistol and whereever it's housed of unburnt carbon. You don't have unburt carbon all over the whole damn weapon.  Now with the ARX-180 you've got coatings as well that do not require much lubrication and as a consequence hardly attract any fouling (very nice if you're in sand environment or extreme temps whether hot or cold).  You're also going to see a very long service life on your bolt and bolt carrier compared to what you can get out of an AR DI, but for the civilian the readily available parts for it are so cheap this may negate this issue for most.  

Link Posted: 9/21/2012 3:41:49 PM EST
Rapidly approaching 4th qtr, 2012.  Play or fold, Beretta.
Link Posted: 9/22/2012 2:20:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By Master_Blaster:
Rapidly approaching 4th qtr, 2012.  Play or fold, Beretta.


Here is a reply I received from Beretta USA on Facebook when I asked about the status of the ARX-160 for US consumers.

"We are waiting for final approvals to begin production of the 5.56 model, so I don't want to speculate on a timeline, as it is not in our control.
The 22LR version should be available toward the end of October (probably beginning of Nov. in-store)."
Link Posted: 9/22/2012 5:56:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 9:09:37 AM EST
LoL
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 1:28:07 PM EST
For what its worth all the IT SF dudes still rock M4s while the line units use the ARX-160...
Link Posted: 9/25/2012 2:15:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2012 2:20:35 AM EST by Alien]







Originally Posted By GreaseMonkey_AP:
Originally Posted By LIONHART:






Originally Posted By Accomplice1:






Originally Posted By GreaseMonkey_AP:






Originally Posted By Accomplice1:






Originally Posted By m4hk33:



less lube and enviromental sensitivites are a myth, less lube equils siezed pistons and heavy objects, as for enviromental, most piston guns still have not figured it out.

I've experienced it first hand. The DI guns just don't go as long without a FTF. Plus some mags that I had labeled as bad since they were poor performers in the AR platform were flawless in other platforms. The AR is light, has huge aftermarket support but is far from the best platform available these days. But then again, why should it be? It is a legacy platform developed decades ago.

You do realize pistons are older than DI by a decent amount, right?  Further so long as you keep most decent quality ARs lubed then your GTG.







You do realize the new platforms have been developed using pistons right?
Also, thereis that it's GTG 'so long as' disclaimer. There are now more reliable platforms that don't requirethe disclaimers.




+1, or a gallon of Mobile-1 to be carried in the back pocket....

Incorrect.  Despite popular myth ALL piston systems require roughly, same level of maintenance to keep them running propperly (and some actually require moar!) which is to say both DI and piston don't require much.. *gasp*




If you say so. Many experienced people on this board who are AR-15 aficionados and instructors will say you will many times need to keep an AR-15 BCG lubed to keep it running reliably. I never did with my AR-15, but I don't have to with my ACR either. The AR-15 is a much bigger pain to clean if you want to wipe down all the carbon fouling. The ACR only has a fraction of the amount of carbon fouling that my AR-15 did after the same or less rounds in a session. I'm not by any means saying AR-15s are unreliable when dirty or anything, only repeating what many will say, only that they require extra effort if you are concerned about keeping them clan.
 
Link Posted: 9/25/2012 7:53:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2012 7:55:00 AM EST by m4hk33]
the problem is that instead of the gas venting into the action, where lube can be easily applied, in the event that one goes through 3 combat loads of ammo.


A piston carbine, on the other hand, fouls the gas regulator housing area and can not be simply relubed on the fly, in the event that, enough carbon builds up on the piston/regulator its going to seize up the gun. but when the gun does stop, its out of commishing, not just dry and in need of lube.

berretta thinks that 3 drops of lube are all thats needed to keep their system, running.



Link Posted: 9/25/2012 3:04:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2012 3:06:16 PM EST by Master_Blaster]
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
the problem is that instead of the gas venting into the action, where lube can be easily applied, in the event that one goes through 3 combat loads of ammo.


A piston carbine, on the other hand, fouls the gas regulator housing area and can not be simply relubed on the fly, in the event that, enough carbon builds up on the piston/regulator its going to seize up the gun. but when the gun does stop, its out of commishing, not just dry and in need of lube.

berretta thinks that 3 drops of lube are all thats needed to keep their system, running.



Non-issue.  I have yet to need to break open & clean the gas reg on any of my AK's due to carbon fouling.  As with carbon deposition inside the AR's gas tube, carbon deposition inside the reg is indeed a self-regulating (pardon the pun) condition; it self-maintains.  If you're actually having to clean the gas reg, then you're doing something wrong.

If DI is so damned superior, then why is not being employed in more modern current designs?  And of course, you do know that whatever issues specific to indirect impingement design have been addressed since the 60's - right?
Link Posted: 9/26/2012 1:08:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2012 1:12:10 AM EST by Alien]

Originally Posted By m4hk33:





the problem is that instead of the gas venting into the action, where lube can be easily applied, in the event that one goes through 3 combat loads of ammo.
A piston carbine, on the other hand, fouls the gas regulator housing area and can not be simply relubed on the fly, in the event that, enough carbon builds up on the piston/regulator its going to seize up the gun. but when the gun does stop, its out of commishing, not just dry and in need of lube.
berretta thinks that 3 drops of lube are all thats needed to keep their system, running.





I am pretty sure you aren't supposed to lube the op-rod/gas regulator housing on most any rifle out there. I've never even read about fouling being an issue. Even most well made AR-15s can continue to operate reliably with copious amounts of carbon residue built up in the BCG. Most any decent piston based rifle or AR-15 will go well beyond several "combat loads" worth of ammo before needing to be cleaned to maintain reliability, functioning for thousands of rounds without cleaning.
 
Link Posted: 10/18/2012 10:03:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2012 11:22:55 AM EST by 556Cliff]
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
Information will be available hopefully in November.


Almost November bump.
Link Posted: 10/18/2012 10:16:38 AM EST
info is on schedule to go out novermber 5th
Link Posted: 10/30/2012 2:09:45 AM EST
Patiently waiting...
Link Posted: 10/31/2012 9:24:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By Master_Blaster:
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
the problem is that instead of the gas venting into the action, where lube can be easily applied, in the event that one goes through 3 combat loads of ammo.


A piston carbine, on the other hand, fouls the gas regulator housing area and can not be simply relubed on the fly, in the event that, enough carbon builds up on the piston/regulator its going to seize up the gun. but when the gun does stop, its out of commishing, not just dry and in need of lube.

berretta thinks that 3 drops of lube are all thats needed to keep their system, running.



Non-issue.  I have yet to need to break open & clean the gas reg on any of my AK's due to carbon fouling.  As with carbon deposition inside the AR's gas tube, carbon deposition inside the reg is indeed a self-regulating (pardon the pun) condition; it self-maintains.  If you're actually having to clean the gas reg, then you're doing something wrong.

If DI is so damned superior, then why is not being employed in more modern current designs?  And of course, you do know that whatever issues specific to indirect impingement design have been addressed since the 60's - right?


Have you shot the ARX?  I'm going to guess no because if you had you would realize comparing the piston design between it and the AK is laughable at best.  You will have to wait and see the results of the Army's testing.
Link Posted: 11/1/2012 6:35:43 PM EST
November 5th? Don't you know things get leaked all the time ;) ;)
Link Posted: 11/3/2012 10:46:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2012 10:50:29 PM EST by 556Cliff]
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
Info is on schedule to go out November 5th.


Almost November 5th bump.
Link Posted: 11/4/2012 10:09:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2012 10:10:24 PM EST by 556Cliff]
It's the 5th of November somewhere.

Where can we find the new info?
Link Posted: 11/5/2012 12:09:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By 556Cliff:
It's the 5th of November somewhere.

Where can we find the new info?


"2 Weeks"

Link Posted: 11/5/2012 4:15:29 AM EST
hmmmm, I think that tastes like weak sauce
Link Posted: 11/5/2012 10:36:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gifters:
hmmmm, I think that tastes like weak sauce


Indeed... I hope he's joking.
Link Posted: 11/5/2012 1:14:24 PM EST
any minute now
Link Posted: 11/5/2012 2:52:15 PM EST
I've been scouring the internets with Google and can't find anything.
Link Posted: 11/5/2012 4:32:24 PM EST
Nothing on Berettas website, the press releases section, or their facebook page.
Link Posted: 11/6/2012 10:22:54 AM EST
Well, that was disappointing.

Link Posted: 11/8/2012 2:42:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
info is on schedule to go out novermber 5th

Anyone think M4HK33 will ever come through on why this rifle is "junk"?
Link Posted: 11/8/2012 3:35:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/8/2012 3:42:08 PM EST by 556Cliff]
Originally Posted By jefmad:
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
info is on schedule to go out novermber 5th

Anyone think M4HK33 will ever come through on why this rifle is "junk"?


Nope.

He's probably one of those steel and walnut M14 guys... Just fucking with us.
Link Posted: 11/8/2012 8:05:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
The army never should have went away from the 1903.
 

Link Posted: 11/8/2012 9:36:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By Gifters:
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
The army never should have went away from the 1903.
 



Link Posted: 11/10/2012 5:52:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/10/2012 6:03:15 PM EST by 556Cliff]
This> 3 page article <is from June.

I don't think I've seen this one before. I just found it posed here.
Link Posted: 11/12/2012 10:58:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2012 11:00:44 AM EST by 556Cliff]
"I talked with Beretta today and I was told the civilian version will be available in late 2013 or early 2014."

Quote taken from here.
Link Posted: 11/12/2012 4:47:38 PM EST
Beretta makes some fantastic guns, but as a corporation they are a cluster fuck. If it wasn't for the M9 contract, they would have been out of business ten years ago.
Link Posted: 11/12/2012 4:59:33 PM EST
I don't know they make some pretty good shotguns, and Benelli doesn't do to bad either with their shotguns
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 11:51:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By MMcCall:
Beretta makes some fantastic guns, but as a corporation they are a cluster fuck. If it wasn't for the M9 contract, they would have been out of business ten years ago.



They have been in business since 1526. I got a funny feeling they aren't going anywhere...
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 1:44:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By NickOfTime:
Originally Posted By MMcCall:
Beretta makes some fantastic guns, but as a corporation they are a cluster fuck. If it wasn't for the M9 contract, they would have been out of business ten years ago.



They have been in business since 1526. I got a funny feeling they aren't going anywhere...


Maybe selling wine carafes and $100 lodge sweaters.. they seem bound and determined to NOT offer what their firearms-buying public wants (on the civilian/self defense side, anyway).
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 2:20:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By MMcCall:
Originally Posted By NickOfTime:
Originally Posted By MMcCall:
Beretta makes some fantastic guns, but as a corporation they are a cluster fuck. If it wasn't for the M9 contract, they would have been out of business ten years ago.



They have been in business since 1526. I got a funny feeling they aren't going anywhere...


Maybe selling wine carafes and $100 lodge sweaters.. they seem bound and determined to NOT offer what their firearms-buying public wants (on the civilian/self defense side, anyway).


Don't they make a killing on their shotguns? Over Unders for the WASPs who want to go on a guided duck hunt once a year to really "rough it", before they get back to skiing at Aspen kind of guys.
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 7:14:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
the problem is that instead of the gas venting into the action, where lube can be easily applied, in the event that one goes through 3 combat loads of ammo.

A piston carbine, on the other hand, fouls the gas regulator housing area and can not be simply relubed on the fly, in the event that, enough carbon builds up on the piston/regulator its going to seize up the gun. but when the gun does stop, its out of commishing, not just dry and in need of lube.

berretta thinks that 3 drops of lube are all thats needed to keep their system, running.



That high pressure gass escaping the vent will ensure that the route is kept clear. Fouling of the gas system is not an issue. I never lubed the gas systems on my FAL's (and it's not recommended to do so), or cleaned the gas system very often.
Link Posted: 11/25/2012 3:26:42 PM EST
Any updates?

I've been saving up for this or a Tavor, looking more and more like IWI will get my money instead of Beretta.
Link Posted: 11/25/2012 10:25:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/25/2012 10:25:40 PM EST by MMcCall]
Originally Posted By scottmon:
Any updates?

I've been saving up for this or a Tavor, looking more and more like IWI will get my money instead of Beretta.


IWI might actually care about getting your money. Beretta just wants to sell you a $100,000 shotgun and a $200 sweater to go with it.
Link Posted: 11/25/2012 10:51:54 PM EST
I'm hoping Beretta and IWI get their shit together and get these fucking guns out before the banners start banning.  Don't be surprised for more "gun control" via Executive Order, because as I said in another post, the Socialist's jobs, what they live for each and every day, is to take away your guns in any way they can.
Link Posted: 12/4/2012 6:00:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By RevolverOcelot79:
Originally Posted By 556Cliff:
It's the 5th of November somewhere.

Where can we find the new info?


"2 Weeks"



Still waiting...
Link Posted: 12/9/2012 4:42:26 PM EST
Coming yet?
Link Posted: 12/9/2012 5:57:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2012 6:00:09 PM EST by scottmon]
Still vaporware as far as can be told.

Tired of waiting, got on the pre-order list for a Tavor at Cope's instead.

Originally Posted By Beyond_Visual_Range:
Coming yet?


Link Posted: 12/10/2012 1:02:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By scottmon:
Still vaporware as far as can be told.

Tired of waiting, got on the pre-order list for a Tavor at Cope's instead.



Same.
Link Posted: 12/11/2012 12:35:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2012 12:36:17 PM EST by borat]
this might be a stretch, but who knows what kinda political wheeling/dealing goes on behind the scenes, eg, the GOVT says if you guys (Beretta) don't release the ARX then maybe we'll just buy another 100,000 pistols . . .
Link Posted: 12/12/2012 7:36:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By borat:
this might be a stretch, but who knows what kinda political wheeling/dealing goes on behind the scenes, eg, the GOVT says if you guys (Beretta) don't release the ARX then maybe we'll just buy another 100,000 pistols . . .


I think all signs and history point to the simplest answer.. Beretta isn't good at product launches.
Link Posted: 12/12/2012 7:50:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By Capt-Planet:
Originally Posted By MMcCall:
Originally Posted By NickOfTime:
Originally Posted By MMcCall:
Beretta makes some fantastic guns, but as a corporation they are a cluster fuck. If it wasn't for the M9 contract, they would have been out of business ten years ago.



They have been in business since 1526. I got a funny feeling they aren't going anywhere...


Maybe selling wine carafes and $100 lodge sweaters.. they seem bound and determined to NOT offer what their firearms-buying public wants (on the civilian/self defense side, anyway).


Don't they make a killing on their shotguns? Over Unders for the WASPs who want to go on a guided duck hunt once a year to really "rough it", before they get back to skiing at Aspen kind of guys.


and is their money any less grere than yours? you buy a GUN...they buy everything with the logo on it as well as a $5k shotgun. you wonder why they are catering to that part of the market?
Link Posted: 12/12/2012 1:54:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By finishman2000:
and is their money any less grere than yours? you buy a GUN...they buy everything with the logo on it as well as a $5k shotgun. you wonder why they are catering to that part of the market?


That's fine, but then don't court the 'tactical' market with bullshit dates and empty promises.

Link Posted: 1/7/2013 1:45:18 PM EST
Bump to keep things fresh.
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