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Posted: 1/6/2012 8:44:25 AM EDT
Seems that I heard that they changed the requirement, but I can't remember. My dad just had a 300 BLK pistol made and he wants to put a vertical grip on it, so I thought I would find out if that is legal or not.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:56:27 AM EDT
It's an AOW if the overall length is less than 26". If you have a pistol lower with a 20" barrel, for example, then the firearm is not considered "capable of being concealed upon a person" and thus it would not fall under the National Firearms Act even with a vertical foregrip.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 9:03:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
It's an AOW if the overall length is less than 26". If you have a pistol lower with a 20" barrel, for example, then the firearm is not considered "capable of being concealed upon a person" and thus it would not fall under the National Firearms Act even with a vertical foregrip.


Thanks for the info, the pistol is 24" and can therefore not have the vertical grip without registering it.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 9:04:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 10:46:41 AM EDT by echo_5]

Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
It's an AOW if the overall length is less than 26". If you have a pistol lower with a 20" barrel, for example, then the firearm is not considered "capable of being concealed upon a person" and thus it would not fall under the National Firearms Act even with a vertical foregrip.


^ NO.

Pistol + vert grip = AOW.

Pistol + MagPul AFG = Legal.


NM. NEW rules. Again.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 9:07:00 AM EDT
How long is the pistol & how long is the bbl?
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 9:09:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By echo_5:

Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
It's an AOW if the overall length is less than 26". If you have a pistol lower with a 20" barrel, for example, then the firearm is not considered "capable of being concealed upon a person" and thus it would not fall under the National Firearms Act even with a vertical foregrip.


^ NO.

Pistol + vert grip = AOW.

Pistol + MagPul AFG = Legal.


Actually latest ATF opinion is that if it's over 26" it's not a pistol, just a firearm. So VFGs are good to go, as long as it's over 26" in OAL.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 9:10:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By echo_5:

Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
It's an AOW if the overall length is less than 26". If you have a pistol lower with a 20" barrel, for example, then the firearm is not considered "capable of being concealed upon a person" and thus it would not fall under the National Firearms Act even with a vertical foregrip.


^ NO.

Pistol + vert grip = AOW.

Pistol + MagPul AFG = Legal.


Not automatically. It has to meet the concealability definition in addition to the presence of the vertical grip. That means OAL of less than 26".
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:09:58 PM EDT
A Magpul AFG is also an option. ATF has ruled that since they're not vertical, but instead angled, they can be installed on a pistol without it being registered as an AOW. I wouldn't put much faith in that ruling, though.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:54:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By txyaloo:
A Magpul AFG is also an option. ATF has ruled that since they're not vertical, but instead angled, they can be installed on a pistol without it being registered as an AOW. I wouldn't put much faith in that ruling, though.


+1. The legal premise of the vertical foregrip as an AOW threshold is not that it's vertical, but that it implies use of two hands to fire the weapon, which no longer supports a "handgun" definition. The Magpul AFG logically implies the same thing, use of two hands, so I don't believe in the longevity of this opinion.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 9:20:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 9:21:06 PM EDT by BRADLEYBUILT]


+1. The legal premise of the vertical foregrip as an AOW threshold is not that it's vertical, but that it implies use of two hands to fire the weapon, which no longer supports a "handgun" definition. The Magpul AFG logically implies the same thing, use of two hands, so I don't believe in the longevity of this opinion.[/quote]

Well said. I agree.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 7:00:04 AM EDT
27 CFR sec. 179.11 - "pistol. A weapon originally designed, made and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having: a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).


Emphasis in bold is mine. ATF gets to decide what angle and how far it extends before declaring it a second hand grip, I guess. For now, ATF has said the AFG does not an AOW make, but it's shaky, at best, and could easily be held to be an AOW by a simple reconsideration at some future time.

"...any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12" or more, less than 18" in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition." 26 U.S.C. sec. 5845(e).


Two hand grip pistols are AOWs until they're no longer capable of being concealed on the person - which is why "pistols" which would otherwise be considered AOWs are not, if their overall length is greater than 26". If not concealable on the person, but not meeting the definition of rifle, shotgun or pistol, then they're just un-categorized firearms, and transfer as "other" on the 4473, since they're also not designed be fired from the shoulder.
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