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Posted: 8/10/2011 10:33:25 AM EDT
Can anyone explain to me why this shotgun is so expensive?  I understand it has some additional features such as:
Remington 870 3" Magnum
Hand honed action for smoother, faster operation
Proprietary Ceramic Based Perma Kote™ finish in OD Green
Vang Comp BIG DOME Safety - $11.99
LPA fully adjustable Ghost Ring rear sight
Red Fiber Optic protected front sight
Hogue Rubber OverMolded Butt Stock® in 14" LOP and Forend for positive grip - $55.
6 round shell carriers cut from a one piece hard anodized Aluminum Billet - $65.
Vang Comp System / complete system with ports - $250.
Magazine Clamp with Picatinny Rail - $85.
Picatinny Rail / top of receiver - $75.
Tritium Night Sight Front Sight - $55
Mesa Tactical low tube adapter - $219.
Your talking $800+/- for additional bolt on acc., plus $200.-$300. for gunsmith work
plus the $300.- $400. shotgun.  I believe this can be built affordably for under $1200.
Since I know this can be done I'm offering a challenge to anyone.  Lets see what u got?
I can't find one for less than $1999.00 which is ridiculous.  I'd buy a Benelli if thats the case.
Here's some pics:

















Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 10:43:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2011 10:02:08 PM EDT by HunterGren]
Paying for the name? For that price it comes with a moe stock? They can't even give you a ctr with it
Link Posted: 8/10/2011 2:31:58 PM EDT
"nighthawk".....

"Gee, this will look good next my my Nighthawk 1911...."
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 4:22:50 PM EDT
How much do they want for their 1100 builds?
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 1:36:18 AM EDT
870p- $550
Vang Comp Optical Rail w/Integral Vang Rear Ghost Ring Sight+front sight $475
Vang Comp Systems Detachable Side Ammo Carrier $79.95
Vang Comp Magazine Tube Extensions $79.95
MESA low mount stock kit $229.99
Vang Comp barrel work $255
Big dome safety $15.00
Robar refinishing $350

Not as cheap as it seems, but yes you could do it cheaper.

Link Posted: 8/13/2011 8:28:32 AM EDT
$1999. depending on where you check.  I know they build a great gun but it seems there's a lot of gouging on weapons of this sort.
I mean seriously, it's an 870 with aftermarket acc., I've built these things for yrs and anything with a price tag of around $2000. should
be semi-automatic.  I prefer the old winchester 1200's, 1300's. and defender models at least they are all metal, take the same acc., and
just as good if not better than the 870.  I have two defenders now ~ a 20 gauge w/law enforcement grip & forened and a 12 gauge
just like it.  The 20 gauge is a "homebuilt" 1200 (not really a defender model) but is made with the same materials as the 12g defender.
I guess my point is simply that this particular 870 can be built by yourself fairly affordably.  Basically I'm venting because I like this shotgun
and prices on things like this lately have been all over the board.  A perfect example would be the new kel-tec pmr 30.  Another example
would be the new kel-tec ksg 12 gauge shottie.  Did you see the gunbroker test auction???  It went as high as $5000. before they shut it down.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 11:28:58 AM EDT
I wouldn't give $50 for a 870, I don't care what they do to it.  You can't improve on a design that is
flawed from the get-go.  A Mossberg 590 is a far better choice than that POS at a quarter the price.
Link Posted: 8/13/2011 7:14:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By scottfn308:
I wouldn't give $50 for a 870, I don't care what they do to it.  You can't improve on a design that is
flawed from the get-go.  A Mossberg 590 is a far better choice than that POS at a quarter the price.


A Remington 870 Police is a POS?  Are you serious?  They are usually very well thought of by people who use them for a living on the pointy end of the LE spear.
Link Posted: 8/14/2011 5:29:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SiVisPacem:
Originally Posted By scottfn308:
I wouldn't give $50 for a 870, I don't care what they do to it.  You can't improve on a design that is
flawed from the get-go.  A Mossberg 590 is a far better choice than that POS at a quarter the price.


A Remington 870 Police is a POS?  Are you serious?  They are usually very well thought of by people who use them for a living on the pointy end of the LE spear.



Yes, I am quite serious.  As a gunsmith, I can tell you there are fundamental flaws in their design.

Poorly located safety virtually unusable by left-handed shooters.
Terribly located slide release that requires removing the firing grip to operate.
Notoriously weak shell stop design that is prone to failure when using magazine extentions
non-skeletioized shell lifter that is cumbersome to use, and does not lend itself to malfunction clearance.
(if a shell jumps the stop, it will lock the gun up.  in a Mossberg it simply falls out of the gun)

They can be very well thought of all they want, but they are still not a very good shotgun, by quality and
useability standards.  There are better options out there for a serious use shotgun.  



Link Posted: 8/14/2011 7:08:27 AM EDT
I like both equally well as I'm a gunsmith to.  I'm aware of the differences but have to disagree with you on it being a POS.
The 590 A (mil version) is a great gun and my favorite.  My serbu super shorty is a 500A and it's never let me down either.
But all my 870's have performed flawlessly right outta the box or customized, and by customized I mean the whole nine yards,
for example:  "ass to risk package"
Smooth action
Trigger job w/Timney sear
Dehorn receiver, inside & out
Stake shell stops, if required
Complete safety & function check
Button Head safety
18½" barrel
Knoxx Spec-Ops or Comp recoil absorbing stock
Lengthen forcing cone for less shot deformation and improved patterns
Install Rem-chokes or back-bore barrel for improved patterns
Hone barrel after machining
One or two-round bar stock magazine extension, or cap w/ sling attachment
Hi-visibility follower
Wolff Extra-Power magazine spring
Rear-mounted LPA ghost-ring sight system w/pic-rail & silver-soldered front post sight
Satin matte bead blast and reblue entire shotgun
Install sling swivel in pistol grip
Wilderness heavy duty sling with sling swivels
Surefire 618FA forend-mounted weaponlight
Mesa Tactical shell holder, 6-round
not to mention vang comp style barrel & throating,  all these options make this thing a lethal combat machine.
Not that its perfectly fine outta the box, but I prefer the above options.  Like I stated above my favorite shotgun
is a mossberg 590A for many reasons.  It is right outta the box and the only thing I've added is the mesa side saddle
which I suggest to anyone.  But to call the most widely accepted and "in departmental use" shotgun out there a POS
is just nonsense.
My serbu:


870 stock & heavily modded:



Mossberg 590A's stock & modded:


Winchester & NEF:

Saiga S12 stock:


I have several more police shotguns from FN's to Savage and even some antique C&R shotties.  It's
interesting to see how they've evolved over the yrs and how we've made them more reliable and easier
to handle.  My favorite shotgun in my possesion (don't laugh) is my winchester 1200 police gun
chambered in 20gauge.  The small black one pictured above with the birdshead pistol grip & 16" barrel
and yes it's an NFA weapon as most of mine are.  But I guess opinions are like belly buttons everyone's got one




Originally Posted By scottfn308:
I wouldn't give $50 for a 870, I don't care what they do to it.  You can't improve on a design that is
flawed from the get-go.  A Mossberg 590 is a far better choice than that POS at a quarter the price.


Link Posted: 8/14/2011 7:10:52 AM EDT
I do however agree on the safety and release.  Don't even get me started on my Benellis (which is all good).



Originally Posted By Waywar:
I like both equally well as I'm a gunsmith to.  I'm aware of the differences but have to disagree with you on it being a POS.
The 590 A (mil version) is a great gun and my favorite.  My serbu super shorty is a 500A and it's never let me down either.
But all my 870's have performed flawlessly right outta the box or customized, and by customized I mean the whole nine yards,
for example:  "ass to risk package"
Smooth action
Trigger job w/Timney sear
Dehorn receiver, inside & out
Stake shell stops, if required
Complete safety & function check
Button Head safety
18½" barrel
Knoxx Spec-Ops or Comp recoil absorbing stock
Lengthen forcing cone for less shot deformation and improved patterns
Install Rem-chokes or back-bore barrel for improved patterns
Hone barrel after machining
One or two-round bar stock magazine extension, or cap w/ sling attachment
Hi-visibility follower
Wolff Extra-Power magazine spring
Rear-mounted LPA ghost-ring sight system w/pic-rail & silver-soldered front post sight
Satin matte bead blast and reblue entire shotgun
Install sling swivel in pistol grip
Wilderness heavy duty sling with sling swivels
Surefire 618FA forend-mounted weaponlight
Mesa Tactical shell holder, 6-round
not to mention vang comp style barrel & throating,  all these options make this thing a lethal combat machine.
Not that its perfectly fine outta the box, but I prefer the above options.  Like I stated above my favorite shotgun
is a mossberg 590A for many reasons.  It is right outta the box and the only thing I've added is the mesa side saddle
which I suggest to anyone.  But to call the most widely accepted and "in departmental use" shotgun out there a POS
is just nonsense.
My serbu:
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/CIMG1474.jpg
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/CIMG1486.jpg
870 stock & heavily modded:
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/8701_full_right_1.jpg
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/CIMG1481.jpg
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/CIMG1166.jpg
Mossberg 590A's stock & modded:
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/100_2623.jpg
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/20110206212544s90img250.jpg
Winchester & NEF:
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/DSCF0142-1.jpg
Saiga S12 stock:
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/S12andBuddys.jpg

I have several more police shotguns from FN's to Savage and even some antique C&R shotties.  It's
interesting to see how they've evolved over the yrs and how we've made them more reliable and easier
to handle.  My favorite shotgun in my possesion (don't laugh) is my winchester 1200 police gun
chambered in 20gauge.  The small black one pictured above with the birdshead pistol grip & 16" barrel
and yes it's an NFA weapon as most of mine are.  But I guess opinions are like belly buttons everyone's got one




Originally Posted By scottfn308:
I wouldn't give $50 for a 870, I don't care what they do to it.  You can't improve on a design that is
flawed from the get-go.  A Mossberg 590 is a far better choice than that POS at a quarter the price.




Link Posted: 8/14/2011 9:15:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By scottfn308:
Originally Posted By SiVisPacem:
Originally Posted By scottfn308:
I wouldn't give $50 for a 870, I don't care what they do to it.  You can't improve on a design that is
flawed from the get-go.  A Mossberg 590 is a far better choice than that POS at a quarter the price.


A Remington 870 Police is a POS?  Are you serious?  They are usually very well thought of by people who use them for a living on the pointy end of the LE spear.



Yes, I am quite serious.  As a gunsmith, I can tell you there are fundamental flaws in their design.

Poorly located safety virtually unusable by left-handed shooters.
Terribly located slide release that requires removing the firing grip to operate.
Notoriously weak shell stop design that is prone to failure when using magazine extentions
non-skeletioized shell lifter that is cumbersome to use, and does not lend itself to malfunction clearance.
(if a shell jumps the stop, it will lock the gun up.  in a Mossberg it simply falls out of the gun)

They can be very well thought of all they want, but they are still not a very good shotgun, by quality and
useability standards.  There are better options out there for a serious use shotgun.  





The OP shotgun is a pistol grip equipped model 870, and the 870 safety is perfect for that configuration. The safety on a pistol grip equipped Mossberg 500 or 590 sucks for left AND right handed shooters...
Link Posted: 8/14/2011 1:07:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By scottfn308:
Originally Posted By SiVisPacem:
Originally Posted By scottfn308:
I wouldn't give $50 for a 870, I don't care what they do to it.  You can't improve on a design that is
flawed from the get-go.  A Mossberg 590 is a far better choice than that POS at a quarter the price.


A Remington 870 Police is a POS?  Are you serious?  They are usually very well thought of by people who use them for a living on the pointy end of the LE spear.



Yes, I am quite serious.  As a gunsmith, I can tell you there are fundamental flaws in their design.

Poorly located safety virtually unusable by left-handed shooters.
Terribly located slide release that requires removing the firing grip to operate.
Notoriously weak shell stop design that is prone to failure when using magazine extentions
non-skeletioized shell lifter that is cumbersome to use, and does not lend itself to malfunction clearance.
(if a shell jumps the stop, it will lock the gun up.  in a Mossberg it simply falls out of the gun)

They can be very well thought of all they want, but they are still not a very good shotgun, by quality and
useability standards.  There are better options out there for a serious use shotgun.  





The OP shotgun is a pistol grip equipped model 870, and the 870 safety is perfect for that configuration. The safety on a pistol grip equipped Mossberg 500 or 590 sucks for left AND right handed shooters...


Unless you get a Maverick which has it in the triggerguard like the 870.  You are also correct, with a side or top folder,
this is the only time the triggerguard safety makes any sense.



Link Posted: 8/14/2011 1:09:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2011 1:10:59 PM EDT by scottfn308]
Originally Posted By Waywar:
I like both equally well as I'm a gunsmith to.  I'm aware of the differences but have to disagree with you on it being a POS.
The 590 A (mil version) is a great gun and my favorite.  My serbu super shorty is a 500A and it's never let me down either.
But all my 870's have performed flawlessly right outta the box or customized, and by customized I mean the whole nine yards,
for example:  "ass to risk package"
Smooth action
Trigger job w/Timney sear
Dehorn receiver, inside & out
Stake shell stops, if required
Complete safety & function check
Button Head safety
18½" barrel
Knoxx Spec-Ops or Comp recoil absorbing stock
Lengthen forcing cone for less shot deformation and improved patterns
Install Rem-chokes or back-bore barrel for improved patterns
Hone barrel after machining
One or two-round bar stock magazine extension, or cap w/ sling attachment
Hi-visibility follower
Wolff Extra-Power magazine spring
Rear-mounted LPA ghost-ring sight system w/pic-rail & silver-soldered front post sight
Satin matte bead blast and reblue entire shotgun
Install sling swivel in pistol grip
Wilderness heavy duty sling with sling swivels
Surefire 618FA forend-mounted weaponlight
Mesa Tactical shell holder, 6-round
not to mention vang comp style barrel & throating,  all these options make this thing a lethal combat machine.
Not that its perfectly fine outta the box, but I prefer the above options.  Like I stated above my favorite shotgun
is a mossberg 590A for many reasons.  It is right outta the box and the only thing I've added is the mesa side saddle
which I suggest to anyone.  But to call the most widely accepted and "in departmental use" shotgun out there a POS
is just nonsense.
My serbu:
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/CIMG1474.jpg
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/CIMG1486.jpg
870 stock & heavily modded:
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/8701_full_right_1.jpg
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/CIMG1481.jpg
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/CIMG1166.jpg
Mossberg 590A's stock & modded:
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/100_2623.jpg
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/20110206212544s90img250.jpg
Winchester & NEF:
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/DSCF0142-1.jpg
Saiga S12 stock:
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/S12andBuddys.jpg

I have several more police shotguns from FN's to Savage and even some antique C&R shotties.  It's
interesting to see how they've evolved over the yrs and how we've made them more reliable and easier
to handle.  My favorite shotgun in my possesion (don't laugh) is my winchester 1200 police gun
chambered in 20gauge.  The small black one pictured above with the birdshead pistol grip & 16" barrel
and yes it's an NFA weapon as most of mine are.  But I guess opinions are like belly buttons everyone's got one




Originally Posted By scottfn308:
I wouldn't give $50 for a 870, I don't care what they do to it.  You can't improve on a design that is
flawed from the get-go.  A Mossberg 590 is a far better choice than that POS at a quarter the price.




Ok, if i am reading this correctly you list a multitude of modifications to bring a 870 "up to speed" as it were, but
yet you say the 590A is good to go right out of the box.  Not hard to see which is the better weapon.


 

Link Posted: 8/14/2011 6:06:57 PM EDT
I didn't say it's a better weapon at all.  I just prefer it in the 14" version I currently use.  I also use, depending on situation,
an equally defined 870.  I've just used the mossberg more and was introduced to it first.  I'm just more comfortable
with it.  When your ass is on the line the latter matters most to me.  Use your own judgement.  If you haven't been properly
trained in shotgun handling you can buy dvd's that will help.  The shotgun is the most versatile weapon you can own.
Although, I would say you cannot learn to breach from a DVD. Its a hands on skill.


Originally Posted By scottfn308:
Originally Posted By Waywar:
I like both equally well as I'm a gunsmith to.  I'm aware of the differences but have to disagree with you on it being a POS.
The 590 A (mil version) is a great gun and my favorite.  My serbu super shorty is a 500A and it's never let me down either.
But all my 870's have performed flawlessly right outta the box or customized, and by customized I mean the whole nine yards,
for example:  "ass to risk package"
Smooth action
Trigger job w/Timney sear
Dehorn receiver, inside & out
Stake shell stops, if required
Complete safety & function check
Button Head safety
18½" barrel
Knoxx Spec-Ops or Comp recoil absorbing stock
Lengthen forcing cone for less shot deformation and improved patterns
Install Rem-chokes or back-bore barrel for improved patterns
Hone barrel after machining
One or two-round bar stock magazine extension, or cap w/ sling attachment
Hi-visibility follower
Wolff Extra-Power magazine spring
Rear-mounted LPA ghost-ring sight system w/pic-rail & silver-soldered front post sight
Satin matte bead blast and reblue entire shotgun
Install sling swivel in pistol grip
Wilderness heavy duty sling with sling swivels
Surefire 618FA forend-mounted weaponlight
Mesa Tactical shell holder, 6-round
not to mention vang comp style barrel & throating,  all these options make this thing a lethal combat machine.
Not that its perfectly fine outta the box, but I prefer the above options.  Like I stated above my favorite shotgun
is a mossberg 590A for many reasons.  It is right outta the box and the only thing I've added is the mesa side saddle
which I suggest to anyone.  But to call the most widely accepted and "in departmental use" shotgun out there a POS
is just nonsense.
My serbu:
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/CIMG1474.jpg
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/CIMG1486.jpg
870 stock & heavily modded:
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/8701_full_right_1.jpg
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/CIMG1481.jpg
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/CIMG1166.jpg
Mossberg 590A's stock & modded:
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/100_2623.jpg
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/20110206212544s90img250.jpg
Winchester & NEF:
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/DSCF0142-1.jpg
Saiga S12 stock:
http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/Wayne_Warner/My%20Guns/S12andBuddys.jpg

I have several more police shotguns from FN's to Savage and even some antique C&R shotties.  It's
interesting to see how they've evolved over the yrs and how we've made them more reliable and easier
to handle.  My favorite shotgun in my possesion (don't laugh) is my winchester 1200 police gun
chambered in 20gauge.  The small black one pictured above with the birdshead pistol grip & 16" barrel
and yes it's an NFA weapon as most of mine are.  But I guess opinions are like belly buttons everyone's got one




Originally Posted By scottfn308:
I wouldn't give $50 for a 870, I don't care what they do to it.  You can't improve on a design that is
flawed from the get-go.  A Mossberg 590 is a far better choice than that POS at a quarter the price.




Ok, if i am reading this correctly you list a multitude of modifications to bring a 870 "up to speed" as it were, but
yet you say the 590A is good to go right out of the box.  Not hard to see which is the better weapon.


 



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