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Posted: 11/15/2012 9:46:59 PM EST
I need 4g for my lead RD 230 the two books I have say.

Currently I use the following

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/943...er-measure-kit for a basic measurement, and Im not to happy I cant get 4g 100%

and http://www.midwayusa.com/product/712...vc=sugv1943305 to weigh the powered

But i dont like the setup, its not 100% and often I dont trust the scale.
What it comes down to is for me either the Lee spoons are off and .5cc of Bulleye isn't 4.7 grams of powered or my scale is off. Ive followed the instruction and zero it 10 times. And .50cc of powered doesnt = 4.7 or close to that, I think its even varying.


I need help.

1. Does my system just suck. ( Im feeling it does, its not the good way to stay consistent for loading).
2. Is there a better way to disburse powered that doesn't cost 300 dollars.
3. Could my scales be faulty?
4. Does Lee kit just suck?

Any advice or your set up would be great.


Thank you,

RB
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 10:34:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2012 10:37:15 PM EST by Twoboxer]
Your links don't work for me. Since I have no idea which equipment (tools and press) you are actually using, it's hard for me to suggest a reasonably priced but better alternative.

When using volume tools like the Lee spoons or their auto-disk, its really up to you to find the right volume for that batch of your powder, on that day. You can't fully depend on the info Lee provides as anything more than a starting point. If you are using the auto-disk, they have a micrometer adjustable charging bar that many folks find better than the fixed-size slots.

Once you find the spoon or slot that comes closest to the weight you need, you run into the second problem - consistency. Frankly, *NO* home system that depends on dispensing/measuring volume as a substitute for measuring the actual weight is going to deliver the same charge every time. Many volume measurements are, however, convenient and come close enough, often enough, for a lot of folks.

If volume measurements aren't good enough for you, you'll need to weigh every charge. A well-calibrated beam scale may well be the most accurate tool, but many people feel its the slowest. Many digital scales are relatively inexpensive and are reasonably accurate, with many claiming and often delivering +/- 0.1gr accuracy. You are not likely to get any more accurate than that via any method using realistically priced equipment.

Even good scales leave issues for you to be concerned about. Weights can also vary by humidity, and the scales can be affected by fans, heating/cooling ducts, vibrations, powder spilled on the scale. and even your own breath.

Bottom line, there is no 100%. But there is 99%, and always close enough as to make no significant difference. To help more, please be specific about which measuring tools and press you are using.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 10:46:13 PM EST
first off you should be measuring grains of powder weight not grams.

Lee spoons are approximate at best and always under weight.

I just checked my Lee .5cc spoon, 10 dips of bullseye ranged from 4.1 gr. to 4.3 gr. weighed on a MTM digital and a RCBS 10/10
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 10:47:45 PM EST
I'm using a Lee Improved Powder Measure Kit with Bulleye powered. The kit say that if you use .50cc spoon it will give you 4.7. So I fill it all way up and try to weigh it with Lee Safety Magnetic Powder Scale 100 Grain Capacity. To try to find a correct or almost accurate measurement.

The idea is to get a some what accurate measurement by once i find a zero on my scale, to not fill the spoon all the way and try to get close enough to 4 grains, 5 being max.

So should I just keep the system knock a little off and so what get me.


My whole complaint is that when i fill the spoon up all the way that it under 4 grain when it should be 4.7.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 10:52:06 PM EST
So is the chart that can with it just not right when it say 4.7 ?


By the way thank you for the time you put into it testing it.

Originally Posted By Coop4570:
first off you should be measuring grains of powder weight not grams.

Lee spoons are approximate at best and always under weight.

I just checked my Lee .5cc spoon, 10 dips of bullseye ranged from 4.1 gr. to 4.3 gr. weighed on a MTM digital and a RCBS 10/10


Link Posted: 11/15/2012 11:52:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2012 11:53:04 PM EST by junkxp]
You are using volume that can be different. Take a scoop and tap the spoon to settle it for example. That being said the proper calibration for lee safety scales is a sledge hammer. The one that came with mine is dangerous.They do make decent products but buy a better scale.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 11:57:37 PM EST
Cooper I measured it 3 times all in your same area. Make sense now. I'll try a load of 4.3 tomorrow and see how it preforms.

Ive been looking at Auto Charges, still dont know if committing 200-300 is worth it though. Will see with result from tomorrow.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 12:43:22 AM EST
It's kind of a process to use volume measures. You need to shake them a bit to settle to powder for consistency to try and get things to settle uniformly for each charge. Though lee gives a lot of scoops in that kit of yours, many volume loaders make their own custom ones for specific powders out of old shells and wire handles. You cut down the shell so it holds exactly the volume you want (after lightly shaking) and you level it of with a flat object. What remains is your charge. It's pretty similar in principle to a black powder adjustable powder measure. Look up those to understand what I mean by it all.

I've tried a lot of methods over the years but I find this to be the best combination for throwing individual charges:



I throw the main charge with a Lee Perfect powder measure set to about 1/10 of a grain short then trickle in the rest using a digital scale. This set up is about $150.00, most of that being the scale. You can do better by way of costs shopping around for a different scale.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 2:25:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 5:37:24 AM EST by dnmccoy]
OP...you don't need to spend 300 dollars to get an accurate charge. I would recommend a lee perfect powder measure and a RCBS or similar beam type scale with the magnetic dampening. You can have both for well under $100


ETA: pics of the kind of scale Im talking about
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 9:46:30 AM EST
I use the Lee Powered Funnel, and it jut stealing a nice portion of the powered on the walls. Static build up or soothing, is there way to fix that?

I like that setup of yours and might try it.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 10:20:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 10:25:39 AM EST by Taipan01]
Originally Posted By rb1988:
I use the Lee Powered Funnel, and it jut stealing a nice portion of the powered on the walls. Static build up or soothing, is there way to fix that?

I like that setup of yours and might try it.


I think your saying that when you use a plastic funnel, some of the powder is sticking to the walls and how do you prevent it?

I use plastic funnels when I throw individual charges. With everything, you throw a few charges to basically prime your thrower, funnels, scales, whatnots. Those charges you can put back into your hopper. When I pour my true charges into the shells through the funnel, I tap the funnel a couple times. Anything of any consequence that's going to cling is already there. Hope this helps.


EDTA: If you mean my setup, I like it better then a beam scale. I have beams and keep them as backups just in case I just don't think they can compare to digital by way of accuracy or speed. On the scale, it's a little rcbs that operates on either batteries or an outlet. It's great if you need to travel or want to go to the range with it.

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 10:47:39 AM EST
Seems like 30-40 particals atleast stick to the funnel walls and wont move when i tab,

I think Im going to go with your setup, i dont know what scale I'm going to get. Ive read half good and half bad on ever digital scale.




Originally Posted By Taipan01:
Originally Posted By rb1988:
I use the Lee Powered Funnel, and it jut stealing a nice portion of the powered on the walls. Static build up or soothing, is there way to fix that?

I like that setup of yours and might try it.


I think your saying that when you use a plastic funnel, some of the powder is sticking to the walls and how do you prevent it?

I use plastic funnels when I throw individual charges. With everything, you throw a few charges to basically prime your thrower, funnels, scales, whatnots. Those charges you can put back into your hopper. When I pour my true charges into the shells through the funnel, I tap the funnel a couple times. Anything of any consequence that's going to cling is already there. Hope this helps.


EDTA: If you mean my setup, I like it better then a beam scale. I have beams and keep them as backups just in case I just don't think they can compare to digital by way of accuracy or speed. On the scale, it's a little rcbs that operates on either batteries or an outlet. It's great if you need to travel or want to go to the range with it.



Link Posted: 11/16/2012 11:56:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By rb1988:
I need 4g for my lead RD 230 the two books I have say.

Currently I use the following

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/943...er-measure-kit for a basic measurement, and Im not to happy I cant get 4g 100%

and http://www.midwayusa.com/product/712...vc=sugv1943305 to weigh the powered

But i dont like the setup, its not 100% and often I dont trust the scale.
What it comes down to is for me either the Lee spoons are off and .5cc of Bulleye isn't 4.7 grams of powered or my scale is off. Ive followed the instruction and zero it 10 times. And .50cc of powered doesnt = 4.7 or close to that, I think its even varying.


I need help.

1. Does my system just suck. ( Im feeling it does, its not the good way to stay consistent for loading).
2. Is there a better way to disburse powered that doesn't cost 300 dollars.
3. Could my scales be faulty?
4. Does Lee kit just suck?

Any advice or your set up would be great.


Thank you,

RB


Stick with the Lee dippers for now, they are always a safe but wimpy powder charge.

Don't use the scales for reloading until you fully understand how to use them.


Link Posted: 11/16/2012 12:39:32 PM EST
For powder sticking to a plastic funnel, it is caused by static. Wipe the funnel with a used dryer sheet. It should take care of it.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:30:44 PM EST
Not mine, but heres someone with a few decent scales for sale, and good feedback to boot. Any one of those scales would serve you great

linkie
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:47:28 PM EST
Also, just add a powder trickler to your current setup. $15-20 bucks depending on brand and source.

So, you scoop the powder with the Lee scoop, dump it in the pan. Then, you trickle up to the 4.7 grains you're looking for, that the scale is set for.

I still use this setup quite often with rifle loads.
Link Posted: 11/23/2012 2:38:31 AM EST
+ 1 for pdg45acp's response, alway error on the side of caution
Link Posted: 11/23/2012 6:29:55 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/23/2012 7:35:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/23/2012 7:37:57 AM EST by DakotaFAL]
I've used the RCBS range master 750 for about 10 years now and it's been a great scale. My only issue with it is that it can be a bit temperature sensitive and the zero can walk a bit.

What I do however to ensure that does not become a factor is use a different powder pan with a built in funnel that I leave on the scale. I'll drop the charge in the stock powder pan, then pour it into the pan on the scale. That let's me confirm it is still reading "0.0" rather than "0.1" or "0.2" grains just before I add the powder. And when done I can pour the charge directly in the case without the need for a separate funnel.



I also have a portable MTM scale that I'll use on the range, and as a back up. However if I had it to do over again, I'd just start with it and be done.



The current version of the MTM scale uses AAA batteries rather than 2032s (a nice improvement) and can be had for only $30 on Amazon.

MTM scale

MTM scale on Amazon

When not doing something with one of my Dillon powder measures, I use a Redding bench rest powder measure.

Redding BR-30

It's not cheap at about $180 on-line, but it throws very consistent charges, enough so that in most cases I don't bother to weigh charges once I have the measure set. In that regard, the MTM scale works as well as the more expensive RCBS and is much easier and more compact to store and costs a lot less, so my advice is get an MTM scale and invest the money saved in a really good powder measure.
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