New to black powder. .50 or .54 caliber.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - New to black powder. .50 or .54 caliber.

Posted: 11/3/2013 9:26:10 AM EDT

Looking to get into black powder, mostly for hunting, but also I have always been fascinated with traditional flintlock and percussion caps. This is the rifle I am currently looking at to start out with.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Black-Powder/Traditional-Rifles-Shotguns|/pc/104792580/c/104701680/sc/104641380/Pedersoli-Traditional-Hawken-Percussion-Rifle/1608685.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Ftraditional-rifles-shotguns%2F_%2FN-1100202%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104641380%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104792580%253Bcat104701680&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104792580%3Bcat104701680%3Bcat104641380

What caliber should I get: .50 or .54? I am primarily going to be hunting deer here in Tennessee with ranges out to 100 yards, but will generally be closer. I understand I will be shooting a standard lead ball (unless I am wrong).

What powders, flask, measures and what nots do I also need to get?

Thanks

Posted: 11/3/2013 10:31:11 AM EDT

[#1]

50 cal is more common to find supplies for.

ETA: Shoot conical Great Plains bullets.

Posted: 11/3/2013 10:58:26 AM EDT

[#2]

I have both .50 and .54, .50 is more common but .54 packs more punch. Cast your own and the supply problem is solved. Roundball is king! Its my first choice. Where in Tn are you?

Posted: 11/3/2013 11:17:21 AM EDT

[#3]

Cookeville area. I go to school at TTU.

I was wondering if it is better to have the punch of the .54, or since I am shooting at, in essence, short distances, the the .50 will get the job done on these TN "Dogs"?

What type of wads/patches should I look into when loading?

Posted: 11/3/2013 12:42:18 PM EDT

[#4]

You will be fine with either. You need a possibles bag, flask or horn, capper if going percussion, nipple pick and wrench, bullet mould, patches, lube(I like wonderlube). As for powder use real black powder, not the fake stuff. Olive oil will clean your gun just like hoppes. I'm down in McMinnville if you want to shoot some and see what its all about.

Posted: 11/3/2013 4:25:33 PM EDT

[#5]

bodybagger has you covered. I like .54 but .50 is most easily found in any configuration these days. I cast my own. Once you work out which load works best in your particular rifle, it will be as accurate as most people can shoot a centerfire.

Posted: 11/3/2013 5:17:26 PM EDT

[#6]

Tn allows you to use round ball for hunting? Il I believe is no round ball deer hunting.

Posted: 11/3/2013 5:17:37 PM EDT

[#7]

I prefer .54, plenty of power. Shoot a flintlock myself.

Posted: 11/3/2013 5:29:24 PM EDT

[#8]

I can't imagine why they wouldn't allow roundball. I regularly get shots through both shoulders with roundball. I have yet to hunt with the .54 I just got it in the spring with the intention of converting to flint.

Posted: 11/3/2013 5:51:03 PM EDT

[#9]

I believe TN doesn't allow FMJs.

I would love to meet and learn this. I have been a little uneasy as I don't want to blow myself up, but I guess that is a general fear for those who never done black powder this way. My neighbor wants me to get an inline with scope (considering I have not nailed one deer this year, or last, says I should), however with my shooting ability, I want a bit of a challenge, and I just want something old fashion and adding a tool in the tool box.

Thus far I have not blown myself up in reloading centerfire, so BP shouldn't be too much harder. I am just at a loss that there isn't many web findings in getting started into the sport.

Posted: 11/4/2013 8:55:56 AM EDT

[#10]

Roundball is not the same thing as ball or fmj, Its a round solid lead ball. With a patch it engages the rifling and is the prefered bullet for traditional muzzleloaders.
roundball

fmj

But you're new to this so heres some reading I put together
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_16/400705_Traditional_muzzleloading_tips_for_beginners.html

You also need a bullet puller, patch worm, bore brush and a cleaning jag. I forgot to include that.

Posted: 11/4/2013 10:33:11 AM EDT

[#11]

As someone who shoots 50 and 54 caliber rifles with conical bullets, I'm going to say 50 due to greater bullet selection. You can get nuclear loads and heavy bullets with both in purpose built inlines.

As someone considering switching to traditional style flintlocks firing a patched round ball for hunting, and having done research on both, I'm thinking of a 58 caliber, since it should be substantially lower recoil than the inlines I shoot, and still pack a decent punch at 100 yards for elk.

Posted: 11/4/2013 12:48:56 PM EDT

[#12]

Not poo pooing side lock rifles, but remember if your rifles nipple in not perfectly clean you can get a delayed fire. I missed a deer years ago when this very thing happened, the doe "jumped the cap". In other words the priming cap fired and in the 1 second delay to ignite the main charge the deer jumped up and I missed her.

Posted: 11/4/2013 5:27:56 PM EDT

[#13]

Thanks for the replies, folks.

I am going for a traditional black powder firearm.

Is the 1/48 twist good, or should I go with 1/60? I am leaning to a .54 caliber. My local gunshop has .54, so no sweat on my end.

Also, though, would a .50 do for TN deer?

How are the Traditions rifles?

Posted: 11/4/2013 5:50:26 PM EDT

[#14]

1/48 is a compromise twist to shoot either conical or roundball, 1/60 is the optimum roundball twist but will be poor with conicals. .50 will do anything you need it to do in North America, .54 will do it a little better. .50 is approx 180gr and 38 per pound of lead. .54 is 220gr and 32 to the lb of lead. Traditions are good rifles for the money. Good entry level guns.

Posted: 11/4/2013 5:51:37 PM EDT

[#15]

Traditions are meh to me, they are low end from where I sit. A lyman Great Plains is a good production gun, that while not 'Tier 1" will do everything you could ask of it without a problem

Posted: 11/5/2013 6:19:37 AM EDT

[#16]

.50 is totally adequate for deer, and much easier to find on the shelf.

1/48 is a good compromise twist, you can shoot either roundball or bullets.

Browse Dixie Gun works for some other ideas.

Posted: 11/5/2013 7:07:00 AM EDT

[#17]

and of course... http://www.trackofthewolf.com

Posted: 11/5/2013 10:40:55 AM EDT

[#18]

I just ordered the .54 caliber Pedersoli from Cabelias. with their $5 shipping. Since I can get .54 caliber stuff from my LGS, I should be set. Might as well go big.

Thanks for all your replies. In a few days or so, the fun and learning really begins.

Posted: 11/5/2013 10:55:31 AM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:

I just ordered the .54 caliber Pedersoli from Cabelias. with their $5 shipping. Since I can get .54 caliber stuff from my LGS, I should be set. Might as well go big.

Thanks for all your replies. In a few days or so, the fun and learning really begins.

View Quote

Good starter guns and a sidelock and that really is about it. There is no other resemblance to a true S or J&S Hawken rifle.

If one really wants to build a Hawken from a parts collection then speak to Don Stith. http://www.donstith.com/muzzle_loading_rifles.html

Posted: 11/5/2013 11:44:58 AM EDT

[#20]

Percussion or flint op?

Posted: 11/5/2013 2:10:06 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:

Good starter guns and a sidelock and that really is about it. There is no other resemblance to a true S or J&S Hawken rifle.

If one really wants to build a Hawken from a parts collection then speak to Don Stith. http://www.donstith.com/muzzle_loading_rifles.html

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I just ordered the .54 caliber Pedersoli from Cabelias. with their $5 shipping. Since I can get .54 caliber stuff from my LGS, I should be set. Might as well go big.

Thanks for all your replies. In a few days or so, the fun and learning really begins.

Good starter guns and a sidelock and that really is about it. There is no other resemblance to a true S or J&S Hawken rifle.

If one really wants to build a Hawken from a parts collection then speak to Don Stith. http://www.donstith.com/muzzle_loading_rifles.html

Rock River is crap, no no, CMMG is crap, no no no go Colt or go home. Sheesh, the guy wants to buy a simple rifle to go out and shoot.

Posted: 11/6/2013 3:18:50 AM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
Rock River is crap, no no, CMMG is crap, no no no go Colt or go home. Sheesh, the guy wants to buy a simple rifle to go out and shoot.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

I just ordered the .54 caliber Pedersoli from Cabelias. with their $5 shipping. Since I can get .54 caliber stuff from my LGS, I should be set. Might as well go big.

Thanks for all your replies. In a few days or so, the fun and learning really begins.

Good starter guns and a sidelock and that really is about it. There is no other resemblance to a true S or J&S Hawken rifle.

If one really wants to build a Hawken from a parts collection then speak to Don Stith. http://www.donstith.com/muzzle_loading_rifles.html

Rock River is crap, no no, CMMG is crap, no no no go Colt or go home. Sheesh, the guy wants to buy a simple rifle to go out and shoot.

My intention was not to be disparaging to the choice. My intention was to point out that if one is looking for authenticity, because the original post stated "I have always been fascinated with traditional flintlock and percussion caps", then the choice was not the best for historical accuracy.

For hunting and putting lead balls down range it is a fine choice.

That is all.

Posted: 11/6/2013 5:40:03 AM EDT

[#23]

People start out just wanting to hunt or shoot, then they end up at a rendevous, then a reenactment, and at that reenactment is some asshole, lets call him PSYWAR1-0 who has to ask them to leave because their gun they got just to hunt and shoot, and their clothing that is fine for Rendevous does not meet the standards of the reenactment. It happens all the time........

Posted: 11/6/2013 6:12:47 AM EDT

[#24]

Okay, yall, none of this peeing match here. Can y'all spit and shake hands?

Yeah, I'm just starting out. If I really like this and find this as a fun alternative to my tactical, national match, personal defense pistol shooting just to sling something down range, I will probably expand. I just want a muzzle loader to hunt with, but I want it to be a challenge for me, and something different around these parts where EVERYONE pretty much hunts with an inline.

I strive to be that guy. Won't you help me?

Posted: 11/6/2013 7:00:37 AM EDT

[#25]

Dont listen to me, cause you will end up in a hunting shirt and moccasins trapping beaver and dining on buffalo hump

Posted: 11/6/2013 7:34:43 AM EDT

[#26]

Everybody starts out somewhere, why buy a bespoken, custom built 100% correct rifle just to find out you don't like fooling with black powder. OP that is a fine starter gun and for general hunting and fun shooting may be all the gun you will ever need. Don't get all upset if someone looks down on your rifle because theres always someone else who would like to have it. Gear snobs are in every sport. Holler and maybe we can shoot sometime. If you have any questions shoot me an IM I'll talk you through it.

Posted: 11/6/2013 7:54:22 AM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
Not poo pooing side lock rifles, but remember if your rifles nipple in not perfectly clean you can get a delayed fire. I missed a deer years ago when this very thing happened, the doe "jumped the cap". In other words the priming cap fired and in the 1 second delay to ignite the main charge the deer jumped up and I missed her.

View Quote

I got in the habit of sprinkling some pyrodex down the nipple before capping. If I recall correctly I used an aftermarket nipple that was bored out a bit and not the OEM nipple. Just a touch of insurance. This was on a side lock percussion, a kind of traditional Pennsylvannia style pedersoli rifle. I started doing this after first shot failures despite patching out the storage oil prior to loading.

Posted: 11/6/2013 9:12:36 AM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

I got in the habit of sprinkling some pyrodex down the nipple before capping.

View Quote

I think I found the problem, pyrodex is harder to ignite than real black powder, thats why all the alternative ignition sources became popular. I understand its easier to find in stores but it is unreliable. OP use real black powder, clean your gun well and keep the nipple and flash path clean and you won't have any problems.

Posted: 11/6/2013 10:45:01 AM EDT

[#29]

Pyrodex and granular 777 and the rest of the subs are fine for a percussion gun. Nipple just needs to be clear. For insurance I sprinkle a bit of powder UNDER the nipple into the drum. Especially when hunting in inclement weather.

For shooting at targets, etc I never do anything special. Just keep a nipple pick in my bag as well as a spare nipple or two and a wrench.

For flintlocks, real black powder is mandatory for reliable consistent ignition.

Posted: 11/7/2013 4:47:42 PM EDT

[#30]

Well OP, when does it arrive?

Posted: 11/7/2013 5:09:58 PM EDT

[#31]

It says shipped, but tracking says it has received billing information.

Really, unknown. Wish it was shipped Tuesday so by today I would have gotten it.

Posted: 11/7/2013 6:27:57 PM EDT

[#32]

Waiting sucks! I was getting possibles bags together for Saturday and wondered how yours was coming. I think you will be happy with the Pedersoli. I have 2 Pedersolis and while not a historically correct replica they are well made and good shooters. You at least got your supplies together?

Posted: 11/7/2013 7:51:35 PM EDT

[#33]

Yes. I am missing a some jags and a bullet puller, but I have powder, caps, patches, patch cleaners, .54 balls, and a powder flask, bullet starter.

I am more concerned about the cleaning aspect more than anything else.

Posted: 11/8/2013 2:11:22 AM EDT

[#34]

I use the 50/54 cal cleaning patches that you can find at places like Rural King or MC Sports soaked in Windex with Vinegar, not Windex with ammonia, with vinegar. I have a small plastic tub that the patches fit in, and are always soaked and ready to go. Makes cleaning on the range a snap.

I also have a tow worm and tow for cleaning demonstrations, but my gun is doing double duty as a reenactment prop, as well as a match shooting weapon.

I don't shoot blanks, there are plenty of folks that really enjoy "Battles" I concentrate on interpreting frontier life.

If any of yall are near Fort Harrod Kentucky, I will be out there on Saturday volunteering at the Fort.

Posted: 11/8/2013 4:12:13 AM EDT

[#35]

ETA: Tuesday. Yuck!.

Posted: 11/8/2013 6:23:17 AM EDT

[#36]

OP is Bend of the river range still open? The guy that ran/runs it was bigtime into blackpowder, he may have the stuff to finish out your kit. Also check out Dunhams, they had some bullet pullers and jags last time I was there.

Posted: 11/8/2013 2:27:08 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
OP is Bend of the river range still open? The guy that ran/runs it was bigtime into blackpowder, he may have the stuff to finish out your kit. Also check out Dunhams, they had some bullet pullers and jags last time I was there.

View Quote

Oddly enough I take two classes there: Pistol and rifle. I have gotten all my hunting tags and what there, plus reloading supplies, while getting college credit. He does have a lot of BP stuff there, and at good prices. Alas, not many in the .54 realm.

Will a .50 bullet puller work?

Posted: 11/8/2013 2:48:29 PM EDT

[#38]

The 50 puller should be fine.

Posted: 11/21/2013 4:21:09 AM EDT

[#39]

Welcome to the BP club. I’ve been hunting with a Cabala’s .54 Hawken for 15 years. Even though I still hunt with modern guns, that is my favorite gun. There is just something special about putting on buckskin, loading deer slayer with 95 g. of FFF and heading into the woods. Don’t forget to watch Jeremiah Johnson a couple of times, Pilgrim.

Posted: 11/25/2013 7:03:13 AM EDT

[#40]

Hey Mauser, all my muzzleloaders are sidelocks and all of them are in .54 caliber. I don't recall seeing a .54 caliber inline production gun. If you know of one let me know. If you go with a .54 be prepared to shop online. Places like gander mountain and cabelas have very small in store stock of .54 and .45 caliber bullet, jags etc. I found it easier to buy bullet molds just because of the shipping costs of lead. Then there are the substitutes. With no.11 caps you might have a difficult time with all the subs unless you use duplex loads (a small preload of BP under the sub) or one of the 209 primer adapters. To me if your going to use BP as a booster load why not just use BP all together? IMNSHO the subs are just as corrosive as BP and maybe even more if humidity is high. Subs are less reliable in regards to ignition and accuracy.

With all that, go with the .54!

Posted: 11/26/2013 7:55:56 AM EDT

[#41]

OP, well? Range report? Gun porn pix? UPDATES, MAN!

Posted: 11/28/2013 8:25:47 AM EDT

[#42]

IMHO, when it comes to front stuffers, bigger is almost always better. I've been shooting .54's for several years now. Started with a Lyman Great Plains Rifle and Plains Pistol. My newest rifle, a Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken is a .54 and am looking at another .54 pistol. This time a custom flintlock. I've never had a problem finding supplies. I have a local shop that stocks the stuff and Dixie Gun Works is only 2hrs away. Although most of my supplies are bought online. Even the .58's, 62's and .69's are relatively easy to feed.

I've settled on .530's with .015 pre-lubed patches. The .535's with .018" pillow ticking don't shoot but a wee bit better but are more difficult to load. My Lyman shoots very well, piling them all into about an inch at 75yds. My new Pedersoli looks like it wants to shoot even better, piling them into the same hole at 50yds. Looking forward to wringing it out properly.