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Posted: 8/8/2014 10:30:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2014 10:31:10 AM EDT by TheArizonaCowboy]
Hey all! I have zero experience with night vision and am looking to pick something up. I have a few ARs and I attend a few classes a year as well as predator hunt monthly.

At the moment I have a budget of $1500-$2200 for something of decent quality. Do you all recommend binoculars, weapon mounted monocular, or helmet/ head mounted monocular?

What should I go with? Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 10:53:17 AM EDT
The problem with a weapon mounted monocular is that holding the rifle up again and again to scan the surrounding area gets really heavy and cumbersome after a few minutes and is really a hassle while walking. You also may be pointing a loaded gun at another person as you scan around your location. I prefer NV mounted on the head. Much easier to naturally scan a area by turning your head side to side even while walking. I do have NV on one rifle but only use it if I am in a static position where I will be staying for a longer period of time. I am new to this also but with a bit of learning you'll catch on fast.
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 11:03:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2014 11:04:42 AM EDT by TNVC]
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 11:17:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2014 11:18:03 AM EDT by HuntTXhogs]
Originally Posted By TheArizonaCowboy:
Hey all! I have zero experience with night vision and am looking to pick something up. I have a few ARs and I attend a few classes a year as well as predator hunt monthly.

At the moment I have a budget of $1500-$2200 for something of decent quality. Do you all recommend binoculars, weapon mounted monocular, or helmet/ head mounted monocular?

What should I go with? Thanks!
View Quote


For pure predator hunting I would suggest a monocular for scanning. You can get a refurbished FLIR PS24 for 1699.00 direct from FLIR.

http://www.flirshop.com/product/scout-ps24-reconditioned/personal-vision

Use of lights and calls is ordinarily enough to bring the animals to within range of clean kills.

HTXH
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 11:30:21 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TNVC:


Also depends on what range you really want to see and engage at? We have some very good NV rifle scopes on sale for that price range. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_209/249993_TNVC_Summer_Sale_with_DEEP_Discounts_on_Battle_Proven_Dedicated_NV_Rifle_Scopes_.html

There is limitations as Utopia mentioned, there is tradeoffs for most everything.

Vic
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Originally Posted By TNVC:
Originally Posted By TheArizonaCowboy:
Hey all! I have zero experience with night vision and am looking to pick something up. I have a few ARs and I attend a few classes a year as well as predator hunt monthly.

At the moment I have a budget of $1500-$2200 for something of decent quality. Do you all recommend binoculars, weapon mounted monocular, or helmet/ head mounted monocular?

What should I go with? Thanks!


Also depends on what range you really want to see and engage at? We have some very good NV rifle scopes on sale for that price range. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_209/249993_TNVC_Summer_Sale_with_DEEP_Discounts_on_Battle_Proven_Dedicated_NV_Rifle_Scopes_.html

There is limitations as Utopia mentioned, there is tradeoffs for most everything.

Vic


Excellent, thank you.

I'm very interested in the PVS-4 Gen2 and M845 1.5X Gen2 models.

95% of the time the target is under 100 yards so do I need a dedicated IR illuminator? Also, what would you recommend for my application? The Larue QD mount is a nice addition on the PVS-4 for sure. I'm guessing the M845's mount will return to zero?

Thank you for coming here and posting the info!
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 11:34:35 AM EDT
As stated by others, I find the helmet-mounted monocular the most useful.
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 11:38:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2014 11:38:44 AM EDT by TheArizonaCowboy]
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Originally Posted By HuntTXhogs:


For pure predator hunting I would suggest a monocular for scanning. You can get a refurbished FLIR PS24 for 1699.00 direct from FLIR.

http://www.flirshop.com/product/scout-ps24-reconditioned/personal-vision

Use of lights and calls is ordinarily enough to bring the animals to within range of clean kills.

HTXH
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Originally Posted By HuntTXhogs:
Originally Posted By TheArizonaCowboy:
Hey all! I have zero experience with night vision and am looking to pick something up. I have a few ARs and I attend a few classes a year as well as predator hunt monthly.

At the moment I have a budget of $1500-$2200 for something of decent quality. Do you all recommend binoculars, weapon mounted monocular, or helmet/ head mounted monocular?

What should I go with? Thanks!


For pure predator hunting I would suggest a monocular for scanning. You can get a refurbished FLIR PS24 for 1699.00 direct from FLIR.

http://www.flirshop.com/product/scout-ps24-reconditioned/personal-vision

Use of lights and calls is ordinarily enough to bring the animals to within range of clean kills.

HTXH


That looks a good deal. Is one able to use this in conjunction with a red dot such as a T-1 or M3 via a head mount of some sort?
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 12:02:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2014 12:02:56 PM EDT by murtis]
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Originally Posted By TheArizonaCowboy:
That looks a good deal. Is one able to use this in conjunction with a red dot such as a T-1 or M3 via a head mount of some sort?
View Quote


Thermals are not suited well for head mounted use, better used for handheld scanning and weapons mounted. They have a laggy and low field of view image that would quickly result to discomfort in your stomach. For scanning your environment nothing beats thermals though.
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 12:15:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2014 12:18:58 PM EDT by TheArizonaCowboy]
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Originally Posted By murtis:


Thermals are not suited well for head mounted use, better used for handheld scanning and weapons mounted. They have a laggy and low field of view image that would quickly result to discomfort in your stomach. For scanning your environment nothing beats thermals though.
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Originally Posted By murtis:
Originally Posted By TheArizonaCowboy:
That looks a good deal. Is one able to use this in conjunction with a red dot such as a T-1 or M3 via a head mount of some sort?


Thermals are not suited well for head mounted use, better used for handheld scanning and weapons mounted. They have a laggy and low field of view image that would quickly result to discomfort in your stomach. For scanning your environment nothing beats thermals though.


I wish could afford head mounted NV and a hand held thermal, but I can only afford one. What's your opinion on what I should get? Could I mount the FLIR Scout behind an Aimpoint?
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 12:27:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2014 12:28:30 PM EDT by ncorry]
With your budget and your plan to it for night hunting, in my experience at least, either go with a thermal hand-held for spotting (image intensifying- AKA " I^2" night vision just doesn't compare with thermal in the spotting department) or a weapon-mounted I^2 scope like the one Vic listed or similar. I've got a couple of helmet-mounted monoculars (PVS-14) and a 2x ATN Thor thermal scope. My hunting partners have Armasight Gen II 4x white phospohor Nemesis ($1,500-$1,700) scopes. Unless we're in very thick woods, the thermal picks things up a hell of a lot farther away than their 4x or the PVS14s with a 3x or 4.5x magnifier. Now, once I see "something" at 300-600 yards and am trying to figure out if it's a no-no (calf, deer) or a hog, the 3x or 4.5x lens on the gen 3 PVS14s or the 4x on the gen 2 Nemesis beat the hell out of the 2x thermal in that regard.

So, with $2,300, the $1,700 refurb PS24 or a good gen 2 riflescope is where my $ would go, with any left overs going toward a good IR light like the TNVC Torch or, depending on how much $, the Streamlight SuperTac IR ($80 or so).

No, can't mount the PS24 behind anything. One of the weird things about thermals is that they can not see through glass, and don't see lasers (unless it's a laser lighting something on fire).
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 12:36:16 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ncorry:
With your budget and your plan to it for night hunting, in my experience at least, either go with a thermal hand-held for spotting (image intensifying- AKA " I^2" night vision just doesn't compare with thermal in the spotting department) or a weapon-mounted I^2 scope like the one Vic listed or similar. I've got a couple of helmet-mounted monoculars (PVS-14) and a 2x ATN Thor thermal scope. My hunting partners have Armasight Gen II 4x white phospohor Nemesis ($1,500-$1,700) scopes. Unless we're in very thick woods, the thermal picks things up a hell of a lot farther away than their 4x or the PVS14s with a 3x or 4.5x magnifier. Now, once I see "something" at 300-600 yards and am trying to figure out if it's a no-no (calf, deer) or a hog, the 3x or 4.5x lens on the gen 3 PVS14s or the 4x on the gen 2 Nemesis beat the hell out of the 2x thermal in that regard.

So, with $2,300, the $1,700 refurb PS24 or a good gen 2 riflescope is where my $ would go, with any left overs going toward a good IR light like the TNVC Torch or, depending on how much $, the Streamlight SuperTac IR ($80 or so).

No, can't mount the PS24 behind anything. One of the weird things about thermals is that they can not see through glass, and don't see lasers (unless it's a laser lighting something on fire).
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Thanks for the information. Pretty interesting fact regarding thermals and optics. Looks like I'll be going with a good gen 2 riflescope. Now to narrow it down between the PVS-4 Gen 2 and M845 1.5X Gen 2...
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 2:13:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2014 2:14:24 PM EDT by murtis]
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Originally Posted By TheArizonaCowboy:

Thanks for the information. Pretty interesting fact regarding thermals and optics. Looks like I'll be going with a good gen 2 riflescope. Now to narrow it down between the PVS-4 Gen 2 and M845 1.5X Gen 2...
View Quote


Thought of used Gen3? They fit nicely in your budget, at least multipurpose monoculars do. They can be mounted behind optics, but of course are not as good as a dedicated NV rifle scopes for that use. Daytime optics don't let near IR (NV is most sensitive at near IR) through as good as scopes meant for that, but it's usable nevertheless. This way you would retain the ability to use it head mounted.

Of course new and good Gen2 is worth the money too. If you use a good illuminator with it you are good to go. While Gen3 obviously is much better, illuminators level the playing field a lot.
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 2:34:03 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By murtis:


Thought of used Gen3? They fit nicely in your budget, at least multipurpose monoculars do. They can be mounted behind optics, but of course are not as good as a dedicated NV rifle scopes for that use. Daytime optics don't let near IR (NV is most sensitive at near IR) through as good as scopes meant for that, but it's usable nevertheless. This way you would retain the ability to use it head mounted.

Of course new and good Gen2 is worth the money too. If you use a good illuminator with it you are good to go. While Gen3 obviously is much better, illuminators level the playing field a lot.
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Originally Posted By murtis:
Originally Posted By TheArizonaCowboy:

Thanks for the information. Pretty interesting fact regarding thermals and optics. Looks like I'll be going with a good gen 2 riflescope. Now to narrow it down between the PVS-4 Gen 2 and M845 1.5X Gen 2...


Thought of used Gen3? They fit nicely in your budget, at least multipurpose monoculars do. They can be mounted behind optics, but of course are not as good as a dedicated NV rifle scopes for that use. Daytime optics don't let near IR (NV is most sensitive at near IR) through as good as scopes meant for that, but it's usable nevertheless. This way you would retain the ability to use it head mounted.

Of course new and good Gen2 is worth the money too. If you use a good illuminator with it you are good to go. While Gen3 obviously is much better, illuminators level the playing field a lot.


Hmmm... So many good options to go with! I'll look over in the EE for a used gen 3 monocular. I've found that the PVS-14 is probably the most common but i'm quite nervous to buy a used unit since I don't know what to look for.

I did find out that Apex Gun Parts sells a few used units but I'm also nervous about those; they seem a little beat up.

Thanks for your help!
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 3:11:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2014 4:28:24 PM EDT by murtis]
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Originally Posted By TheArizonaCowboy:

Hmmm... So many good options to go with! I'll look over in the EE for a used gen 3 monocular. I've found that the PVS-14 is probably the most common but i'm quite nervous to buy a used unit since I don't know what to look for.

I did find out that Apex Gun Parts sells a few used units but I'm also nervous about those; they seem a little beat up.

Thanks for your help!
View Quote


PVS14 is indeed the most common of the monoculars and has the broadest selection of accessories, mounts, etc. If you decide this is the route, you can't go wrong with a PVS14. If you see them listed as Omni this and that, anything above Omni IV are good and from Omni VI they are superb.

Edit: If you haven't already read this, please do, lot's of good info on PVS14 http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/322481_.html
It's the "PVS14 Buyer's guide" that is stickied on the forum.
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 3:44:58 PM EDT
get a used off the arfcom ee or new pvs14.

the versatility of a head mounted mono makes up for the price difference over a gen 2 or rifle scope.

if its not filmless, you can probably use it right away mounted behind a nv compatible aimpoint or eotech, on a low recoil rifle like an ar15 in 5.56.

then start saving your pennies for a helmet or head mount, and an aiming laser for your rifle.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 8/9/2014 7:15:14 PM EDT
Just another option that works for me...Pulsar N750 from Ultimate Night Vision ($1,375.14 ) and a Torch Pro from TNVC ($191.20 with sale price). One advantage to the N750 is a 3 year warranty and can be used and sighted in daylight. The set up works great for me just another option.


These two hogs taken on a overcast rain and fog night from 130 yards. Hit the big one first than nailed the "football" while on the run.
Link Posted: 8/9/2014 7:49:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2014 7:50:06 PM EDT by TNVC]
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 4:05:13 AM EDT
For most shorter range shooting, go with helmet mounted pvs-14 and weapon mounted IR laser.

HOWEVER, I own a PVS-4, and recommend it highly. It has a wide FOV and is indestructible. (except for Horta). For shooting from a blind, stand ect.... Perfect. On the move you cannot use it (easily) for navigation and isn't the best for target acquisition.

FLIR is a great option for target acquisition. Prices are just going down. Can't engage with the more affordable models. ( they are spotters)
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