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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 6/3/2002 7:09:52 PM EST
Saw a new Bushy carbine today at the gun shop. What a piece of crap as far as finish. Shiny black upper, dull gray lower. The stocks weren't even close to a match. And it looked like somebody finished the bolt carrier with a course file. Even the barrel looked rough. $825.00 for this piece of sh** that looks like it was made in a garage. If that is what they have to offer, I'd look at other makes for sure.
Link Posted: 6/3/2002 8:52:51 PM EST
sounds like someone got a bushy lower and made a basement frankengun to sell at a bushy price. to be honest, i have considered this before. those jerks at the gunshow deserve it.
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 3:38:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By mattsd:
sounds like someone got a bushy lower and made a basement frankengun to sell at a bushy price.



Thats my thought as well...
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 3:38:56 AM EST
You didn't read my post to well. This was a brand new rifle in the box at my local gunshop. I never said anything about a gunshow.
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 3:47:33 AM EST
Its not hard to get the plastic Bushy boxes. If it wasnt one of those then maybe it has some numbers on it. Sounds like the frankengun thing to me aswell. Who knows?
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 4:03:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By mattsd:
sounds like someone got a bushy lower and made a basement frankengun to sell at a bushy price. to be honest, i have considered this before. those jerks at the gunshow deserve it.



Jerks being dealers or buyers? Who deserves it and why? Not being a smarta$$, just curious.
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 4:06:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2002 4:07:19 AM EST by Avalon01]
Sound like a frankengun to me too.

Take a look at other dealers, Bushmaster rifles are pretty nice.

I wonder if he bought a "NIB" Bushmaster from somebody else and is reselling it. It is possible to buy Bushmaster cases, manuals, slings and 10 rd mags direct from Bushmaster on-line.

I have an all Bushmaster parts gun I built myself, if I put it in a Bushmaster case with a copy of the manual, web sling and a 10 rd mag, I could call it NIB and you wouldn't be able to tell it from a factory assembled rifle.

Av.
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 2:49:09 PM EST
I'LL SAY IT AGAIN MORE CLEAR. THIS IS A BRAND NEW GUN FROM BM. DOESN'T ANYONE WANT TO BELIEVE THAT BM CAN LET A BAD ONE SLIP THRU. THEIR NOT AS PERFECT AS SOME WANT TO BELIEVE, OR ARE SOME JUST THAT CLOSED MINDED.
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 2:54:54 PM EST
Stronghorn,

Typing it in all caps doesn't make it easier to read.

I think what people are saying is that it seems like a rather odd occurance. I've seen many Bushmasters, in the stores, at shoes, at ranges. None of them have had the problems you describe.

While it is certainly possible that Bushmaster released such a rifle, we are wondering dealer is not trying to scam someone with a parts gun.
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 3:51:33 PM EST
I've dealt with these dealer for 30 years, he has been in buisness in our community for 60 years. Very well respected and liked. You can make a deal on a hand shake over coffee. By no means is he a snake, a sixty year record proves that. Bushy made a bad one, that simple, deal with it.
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 3:55:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By Stronghorn:
Bushy made a bad one, that simple, deal with it.


Sorry to doubt you and be unable to deal with it. Just seems like a weird occurance that hasn't geled with prior experience.

Thank you for enlightening me and apologies for the inconvenence of my slow wittedness and dull mindedness.
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 3:58:30 PM EST
Your right maybe a bad one went through everyone has a bad day. But I will tell you that the 30 or more I have seen are in top shape. I did see one with a little dullness on the upper. I would think oil would take care of it. The dealer should send it back they will take care of it. 30 yrs is a long time and I would put my trust into him also.
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 4:01:43 PM EST
Stronghorn, does Armalite issue paychecks every week, or every other week? I might send a resume.

Look, I have NEVER seen a Bushmaster, or Colt, or Armalite or even an Oly (which I owned for a while) that crappy.

Why can't YOU deal with the fact that it is probably a Frankengun.

I know your dealer may be able to lay golden eggs, but that don't mean that that's a 100% Bushy.
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 4:34:17 PM EST
Yep, sounds like frankengun.
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 4:43:10 PM EST
ONE bad looking gun and your gonna say the hell with the WHOLE company? I think you need to accept the fact that it is PROBABLY not 100% sure since none of us have seen the gun that it is A FRANKENGUN. And I quote from you "Bushy made a bad one, that simple, deal with it." Then why the fucking rant and rave about it on this forum? If YOU KNOW FOR A FACT that bushy screwed this one up then why the fuck did you even make this thread? Yes no one is perfect.. If you don't like it don't buy it that simple.. It might not be new just because you said it came NIB.. just like TheFNG said.. I have a case just like the bushmaster one for my Rem. 700 PSS only thing it's missing is the bushy sticker logo..

Now get your shit straight before you come here bashing bushmaster.
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 4:57:54 PM EST
Just one more reason for you to purchase a Colt.
Remember, problem free makes one happy.

I seem to be reading a lot of people here who
are dissatisfied with their New BM ( Bowl Movement ) Bush Master's.

At one time I was thinking about getting an M4
Bushy. I know not all of them are bad, I just don't think
I wanna take an $840 + gamble.
I may as well get a Rock River for my plinking rifle.
I haven't read any, that I can think of, complaints
about them yet.
And I'm just basing this on the info I get here at this site.
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 5:09:06 PM EST
This thread reads like Abott and Costello's "Who's on First" combined with "Murder on the Orient Express".

Comical, yet......a bit of intrigue.

Quote: If that is what they have to offer, I'd look at other makes for sure.

You seem to be implying that since this gun that you think came straight from the factory is crap, that all Bushy product must be crap. Maybe that is not your intent, but that's the way it reads.

I have to wonder why this dealer with so much experience would let his supplier pawn off a new firearm with such obvious defects. Has he never seen a NIB Bushmaster before? I've seen a few, never one like you describe.

You also imply that he was offering it for sale. Was it on the rack? Did he pull it out of the back room and say " hey, look at this crap I got in the mail. It's going back tomorrow." If he was trying to sell it, it sort of makes him look bad, not the manufacturer.



And we all wonder who exactly mattsd would like to screw. Hope it ain't me. I'll probably run into him at the Des Moines gun show this month.
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 5:16:04 PM EST
RFLMAO right now, cheeze. GYHOYA
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 5:21:58 PM EST
Stronghorn, So what your saying is this reputable dealer, this 30/60 years in business dealer, this pillar of the firearms community dealer actually put such a crappy gun on the shelf to sell to his valued customers !?!?!?!
If it's as bad as you say it is, why did'nt this "very well respected and liked" dealer send it back as soon as he opened the box to display it instead of trying to sell it to one of his valued customers ?!?! And as for you, why did'nt you ask this "dealer" why he dared to put such a crappy weapon out for sale to his valued customers.
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 5:57:05 PM EST
I will agree with Stronghorn, it is very possible that they shipped out a gun of that quality because I have had a string of bad luck with the upper I ordered from them, but to their credit they are resolving the problem and their customer service has been great. And also I have a factory Colt SP1 that came from the factory with a grey lower and a dark gray upper, and they match like night and day and the gun is 100% factory. Had a Colt factory 6450 also that the upper and lower did not match, not even close, so for you guy's out there that think AR's always match from factory better think again because they all ship or have shipped guns out like that and it is not that one slips through every once and awhile and happens quite often.
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 7:07:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2002 7:16:32 PM EST by bigyeti]
I vote for "Frankengun"... Bushy ain't perfect but they're better than that... If it's that bad I'd bet on the dealer... Gotta go with Spectre on this one... I've seen some sleazy tricks from some well respected citizens in the 40 plus years that I've been buying guns...
Edited to say: I've sold, at swap meets or gun shows, all my Bushy, Glock, Sig, Ruger etc cases.. Some of us don't want to store them and have another way of transporting.. SO! A case wouldn't be hard to find... Especially if I were a dealer who had a chance to sell the upper off a complete rifle at a good profit, and did so, knowing that he could probably get away with replacing it with parts that were just layin' around the shop and increase his profits by hundreds... Just a thought!!
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 7:33:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By Stronghorn:
I'LL SAY IT AGAIN MORE CLEAR. THIS IS A BRAND NEW GUN FROM BM. DOESN'T ANYONE WANT TO BELIEVE THAT BM CAN LET A BAD ONE SLIP THRU. THEIR NOT AS PERFECT AS SOME WANT TO BELIEVE, OR ARE SOME JUST THAT CLOSED MINDED.



yes, i believe you.
not impressed with my nib's, from dealer either. rough/poor finish, poor handguard fit, mag well so tight i had to rock the mags to get them in/out of one. they are definately delegated to plinkers. i expected a lot more.
Link Posted: 6/4/2002 10:21:58 PM EST
As to why the dealer does not send it back, unfortunately he is home recovering from his ump-teenth skingraft/leg ulceration. Leaving the store in the hands of his two mel-content kids weighs on his mind alot. They have a don't giva-sh** attitude. Sadly when the old man leaves this earth some day, I'll give the store 6 months in the gun trade. They may survive in the locksmith trade, as they have the monopoly on that around here.
Not trying to make excuses for him, but you have to be here to see it.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 7:08:29 AM EST
If the rifle is really NIB from the Bushmaster factory and your dealer so "reputable",
why is he trying to sell it and not send it back to Bushmaster????????


Sounds like another estoner to me.......
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 7:14:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/5/2002 7:18:17 AM EST by s0ulzer0]

Originally Posted By Stronghorn:
As to why the dealer does not send it back, unfortunately he is home recovering from his ump-teenth skingraft/leg ulceration. Leaving the store in the hands of his two mel-content kids weighs on his mind alot. They have a don't giva-sh** attitude. Sadly when the old man leaves this earth some day, I'll give the store 6 months in the gun trade. They may survive in the locksmith trade, as they have the monopoly on that around here.
Not trying to make excuses for him, but you have to be here to see it.



Well, that sucks.
If they refuse to send it back, I'd do what I could to keep anyone from buying it and
from buying anything from them anymore.

I've never come across a Bushmaster in the shape you say NIB. The 2 I own are great.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 7:37:45 AM EST
A guy I know bought a Bushy (directly from BM) upper for his Oly lower, and the front sight looked like someone ran a bastard file diagonally across the back of it, and the front sight wasn't the same width all the way up. Looks like a hack job.
If it had been mine, I would have sent it back.
Everyone who is in the manufacturing biz makes a lemon once in a while.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 8:03:36 AM EST
Don't blame the dealer, it should have never left the factory like that. Apparantly another McD's worker in charge of quality control.

The reason for this post was to pass on that even the "better" brands have a bad day. Most people had no problem picking on Colt, my 6700(post) is finished quite nicely and over 2000rds. hasn't missed a lick. Even the "Best"can have a bad day.

Undestand now.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 8:04:29 AM EST
Don't blame the dealer, it should have never left the factory like that. Apparantly another McD's worker in charge of quality control.

The reason for this post was to pass on that even the "better" brands have a bad day. Most people had no problem picking on Colt, my 6700(post) is finished quite nicely and over 2000rds. hasn't missed a lick. Even the "Best"can have a bad day.

Undestand now.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 8:09:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
A guy I know bought a Bushy (directly from BM) upper for his Oly lower, and the front sight looked like someone ran a bastard file diagonally across the back of it, and the front sight wasn't the same width all the way up. Looks like a hack job.
If it had been mine, I would have sent it back.
Everyone who is in the manufacturing biz makes a lemon once in a while.



I agree, lemons happen to everyone. I am in no way blindly "brand loyal".
Why didn't your friend send the upper back?
Bushmaster has great customer service, I've delt with them once before to check/correct a gas leak on my Shorty carbine.
I had it back within 5 days from when I sent it.

Link Posted: 6/5/2002 8:26:46 AM EST
Over the last 2 months we got 8 new ones in at the shop, including the new target model with the SS barrel and the varmiter ( very nice trigger on the varmiter I might add) a few other configs including the carbine.

When I open one comes into the shop, I always break it down and check them over, I have yet to se one with bad machine work. The front grip is a shiny black material, the A2 butstock is usually a grey color, since they are different material, if you look on their site the picture will show that as well.

The metal finish is usually within a shade of eachother, but keep in mind they are finished at different times.

I am not saying it is impossible that the machineing was rough, but it does not happen very often. It is the same with any industry, and with any product... a few weeks ago we sent a beautiful Browning back because there were a few scratches in it. They sent us a new one. no big deal. This was a $1400 over/under.


I am thrilled with my BM, and that SS 20" I mentioned above will be comming home with me one of these weeks


Link Posted: 6/5/2002 8:30:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Stronghorn:
Don't blame the dealer, it should have never left the factory like that. Apparantly another McD's worker in charge of quality control.

The reason for this post was to pass on that even the "better" brands have a bad day. Most people had no problem picking on Colt, my 6700(post) is finished quite nicely and over 2000rds. hasn't missed a lick. Even the "Best"can have a bad day.

Undestand now.



Colt has, as well as everyone, let crap slip thru. If the dealer received a crap rifle, the dealer should send it back, not try and sell it.

If I buy something and it is DOA or just plain crap right out of the box, I'm not just going to sit on it,
try to pass it off on someone else or just bitch about it, I'm going to send it back and
get a good one or a refund.

So, if the dealer is going to sell it, that sucks.
Lemons happen, but knowingly screwing people is just lame.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 8:38:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bob243:
Over the last 2 months we got 8 new ones in at the shop, including the new target model with the SS barrel and the varmiter ( very nice trigger on the varmiter I might add) a few other configs including the carbine.

When I open one comes into the shop, I always break it down and check them over, I have yet to se one with bad machine work. The front grip is a shiny black material, the A2 butstock is usually a grey color, since they are different material, if you look on their site the picture will show that as well.

The metal finish is usually within a shade of eachother, but keep in mind they are finished at different times.

I am not saying it is impossible that the machineing was rough, but it does not happen very often. It is the same with any industry, and with any product... a few weeks ago we sent a beautiful Browning back because there were a few scratches in it. They sent us a new one. no big deal. This was a $1400 over/under.


I am thrilled with my BM, and that SS 20" I mentioned above will be comming home with me one of these weeks



Sounds like Stronghorn's dealer needs to be as concerned of what they sell, like you are.

The gun dealers I buy from check everything over they unbox for sale. They want happy customers and understand that any brand can have a lemon ship out. Hell, they even correct canted sights on those Century AK-47s before sale. They wouldn't pass crap off for the customer to get stuck with.
It's called good service.
Link Posted: 6/5/2002 9:10:29 AM EST
I think the problem is not so much the overt message, we all know that virtually every Mfgr, be they a manufacturer or precision aircraft parts, firearms, cars or window boxes, occasionally produces a piece of garbage that slips by QC. It happens.

What most folks reacted to was the downright hostile tone of the original post. It was a challenge to the Bushmaster owners out here, pure and simple.

"I saw this Bushmaster in a gunshop, it was a POS, Bushmaster's are all POS, buy something else." Was the clear message. There was no overt message that all manufacturers sometimes produce a lemon, in fact there was not a subtextual message to that effect either.

So if you issue a challenge like that and encounter a hostile response, don't be surprised. That would be like going on Culver's Shooting Pages and announcing that All M1 garands, M14's and M14 clones are absolute crap. You'd be jumped on almost as soon as you hit the "submit" key.

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