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Posted: 4/13/2007 6:19:55 PM EDT
I found this while surfin' the net. I kinda like it.

Link

Link Posted: 4/13/2007 7:13:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/13/2007 7:14:13 PM EDT by mjohn3006]
Cool.
Link Posted: 4/13/2007 8:37:13 PM EDT
Now if it just had a rail on the upper reciever cover!
Link Posted: 4/14/2007 7:21:25 AM EDT
Looks expensive.

Does anyone have one?

Max
Link Posted: 4/14/2007 7:25:55 AM EDT
My FAL-fu is weak, so this might be a stupid question:

Is there much difference between an FAL in 5.56 that take AR mags and an FNC? To be honest that's what I thought an FNC was.
Link Posted: 4/14/2007 7:29:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/14/2007 7:30:28 AM EDT by tfod]
I played with one at a funshop out in town.

Handled well, looked good. Fit was good. If it works as good as it looks, then it should be a good seller.
Link Posted: 4/14/2007 7:32:00 AM EDT
The fal action is reliable with IT'S mag design. The AR 10 sucks with the fal mag design. I wonder about the reliability of this weapon. The FAL is ergonomically OK as a battle rifle (.30 cal) but it would not be my first choice for a smaller caliber. This weapon weighs more than an AR, less ergo than an AR, what is the advantages?
Is it just to produce another gun that doesn't exist. Ford with Chevy motor and Mopar drive train, new car?
Link Posted: 4/14/2007 7:35:09 AM EDT
Bobcat Weapons .....................................
Link Posted: 4/14/2007 7:35:54 AM EDT
This is from the same people who brought us Bobcat Weapons...


It weighs 8 lbs empty: www.redrockarms.com/atr.html.
Link Posted: 4/14/2007 9:01:48 AM EDT
All FALs are heavy they are made sturdy
the prices on Gunbroker are $1200-$1600
which is on par for any quality FAL however I have not seen any or seen any reviews on this

I know nothing of RED ROCK AMRS or BOBCAT WEAPONS except they make H&K clones and they get bashed on this board alot

I have seen few decent reasons or arguments against them mostly just "they suck" comments

So for those above WHY NO LOVE FOR REDROCK ??????


Link Posted: 4/14/2007 9:05:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By clippen:

Is it just to produce another gun that doesn't exist. Ford with Chevy motor and Mopar drive train, new car?






Originally Posted By SD307:
I know nothing of RED ROCK AMRS or BOBCAT WEAPONS except they make H&K clones and they get bashed on this board alot

I have seen few decent reasons or arguments against them mostly just "they suck" comments

So for those above WHY NO LOVE FOR REDROCK ??????


Toady, is that you?
Link Posted: 4/14/2007 10:36:33 AM EDT
I love my FAL and my AR 15's I have never wanted to attempt to cross breed the 2.
I guess if you had a ton of cash to spend on a toy, OK. I buy weapons with a track record.
Link Posted: 4/14/2007 11:46:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Toady, is that you?


Actually, no. This according to Gunplumber (ARS). Evidently Bobcat used Speshul Weppens receivers for their builds.

Now, if the aluminum receiver will retain the locking shoulder after lots of firing, ie: Williams Arms "Alumabomb". Several of those have been built in 5.56. Time will tell. There is a review over @ the FALFiles. It needed to go back for fixes but the comms and service were satisfactory.
Link Posted: 4/14/2007 3:24:19 PM EDT
Not top point out the obvious, but for THAT price, it's a no brainer to get an XCR over it.
Link Posted: 4/14/2007 3:58:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:
My FAL-fu is weak, so this might be a stupid question:

Is there much difference between an FAL in 5.56 that take AR mags and an FNC? To be honest that's what I thought an FNC was.


The FNC has an AK-esque action, like the Galil, XCR, etc... This is just a scaled down FAL, using the tilting bolt and seperate, short stroke gas piston.
Link Posted: 4/14/2007 4:39:20 PM EDT
Anything with Load Baily`s stench on it I will not touch! There alot of other well made, and proven designs out there.
Link Posted: 4/14/2007 4:49:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KIDGLOCK:
Bobcat Weapons .....................................


My sentiments exactly. It'll probably start FTE-ing after 800 rounds and never get fixed.
Link Posted: 4/15/2007 7:56:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By itstock:
Not to point out the obvious, but for THAT price, it's a no brainer to get an XCR over it.


+inifinity
Link Posted: 4/15/2007 12:20:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/15/2007 12:22:20 PM EDT by mco119]

Originally Posted By killswitch1982:
Anything with Load Baily`s stench on it I will not touch! There alot of other well made, and proven designs out there.


+1000. I would never go near anything that Toad Bailey is even remotely connected with. Why anyone would risk dropping cash on a weapon associated with that loser is beyond me. There are plenty of other high quality weapons available at a similar price.


ETA: Also, as others have said, what's the advantage of a .223 FAL? Zero as far as I can tell. It's a novelty, that's about it.
Link Posted: 4/15/2007 1:36:45 PM EDT
Junk
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 1:50:34 AM EDT
A 5.56 FAL is certainly not junk...one made by Bobcat? well, thats a different story entirely...The Brazilians had great luck with thier MD2, so much so that Imbel continues to produce it, though it has since be relegated to second line duty...It is encountered in other SA countries.The biggest problem with a 5.56 FAL is the weight. You get all the heft of a FAL without the added benefit of 7.62 NATO power.There was a time when I would have given a kidney for a Springfield SA48 5.56 FAL until I shot one. It was sufficiently accurate/reliable and a great gun, but it was obese.Still, one with a DSA style scope rail and para folding stock would be extremely cool. Im not sure about 5.56/7.62 parts interchange, but MD2 literature states "maximum commonality".... whatever the hell that means in Brazil.

A 5.56 FAL is most certainly not a FNC, or even a CAL. The FNC is simply an AK made by FN. Strip an FNC and a SLR106F side by side and you will quickly see what I mean.
The Sig 55x is obviously inspired by the AK, but some changes were made. FN basically made a lighter/improved Galil. A 5.56 FAL/MD2 retains the original FAL operating system, including adjustible gas regulator.

The cool factor is there, but practicality/price? Forget it...Love it or hate it, the AR/M16 is among the best fighting rifles ever concieved. With the market the way it is now, its so hard to justify buying anyhting but an AR, no matter how cool other weapons are.
While the DI system lacks some of the full auto abuse potential of piston weapons, especially in a carbine system, its none the less extremely reliable. Eugene Stoner knew a thing or two about piston guns but ultimately settled on the DI system. Its ultra accurate and has a minimal amount of parts. Carry a spare complete bolt carrier and you can fix any serious malfunction/breakage as fast as you can change a magazine.
Chuck an extractor in another system and you are doomed without armoroer support.

Given the fact you can have one of the best assault rifles in the world for around 1k, these other manufactures price themselves right out of the game. Why spend 1500 for an inferior weapon? Id love to buy a 5.56 FAL for a curiousity, just like I'd love to have a V93 or Robinson M96 but the price/performance ratio is way off. None of those guns can hold a candle to a 700.00 DPMS/Bushmaster/RRA AR.

The 5.56 FAL came out of a need for a low cost/convient 5.56 rifle for those using/mfg FAL's. If you aren't saddled with a million FAL's and production facilities, a 5.56 FAL offers no real advantage, other than being cool. Time will tell if Bobcat got it right...Im not going to give them 1k+ to do thier r&d work though.
Link Posted: 4/17/2007 9:27:06 AM EDT
.223 FAL seems to me to be an expensive answer to a question no one was asking. I love my FAL and it is probably my favorite .308 semi-auto. But as others have said, why spend more money for a rifle that is heavier, less accurate and less ergonomic than an AR? If you really want a rifle in .223 with an adjustable gas system like the FAL, get an XCR. Lighter, a little less money, folding stock, and you can swap out the barrel and change calibers.
Link Posted: 4/17/2007 5:21:34 PM EDT
I kinda like the idea of a 5.56 FAL, but I would not spend $1500 on a rifle unless I knew it was gonna work!
Link Posted: 4/17/2007 5:40:17 PM EDT
I'd take an XCR for that price. If it were available, the Masada.

Either case, they are banned in my state.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 4:48:15 AM EDT
CK1 - Don't know much about NJ law, why is XCR banned? I live in Mass., hardly a beacon of enlightment when it comes to firearms, and with a few tweaks the XCR Robinson Arms can make the XCR Mass. compliant.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 6:42:08 AM EDT
Pistol grip and detachable magazine. OKAY.

Comes factory standard with threaded barrel. Optional folding or collapsable stock. NOT OKAY.

Minimum of pinning a brake onto the barrel. Not sure how the AG would view the quick change barrel because then it is feasible to swap a threaded barrel at a later date.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 9:55:10 AM EDT
I don't know when people will stop acting like this Toad Bailey junk is a viable alternative to a real rifle.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 12:32:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:
I don't know when people will stop acting like this Toad Bailey junk is a viable alternative to a real rifle.


You do realize that Todd Bailey has nothing to do with this project right?
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 4:44:35 AM EDT
Handled one at a gun shop, I thought the workmanship was good and the rifle was beautiful to my eyes. It pointed well and the balance was great. I don't know about the reliability, but the price wasn't too bad-$1,200.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 5:10:05 AM EDT
I know it would make it a lot more expensive to the point of being impractical, but had they shortened and slightly narrowed the entire action and receiver to accomidate the 5.56x45 round as opposed to just slapping a mag adapter and new bolt & barrel into a 7.62x51, I think it would be lighter, shorter, more practical, and more marketable. I'd buy one then.

Too bad it would be so much more expensive.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 5:11:03 AM EDT
It says the receiver is aluminum.....

here's what DSA says about aluminum
link
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 11:23:42 AM EDT
Arn't AR15/M16 receivers aluminum? The DSA link is to a 7.62 rifle, is this an "apples to oranges" situation? Or does the 5.56 generate the same or greater pressures that the 7.62?
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 2:56:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Soup-Nazi:
Arn't AR15/M16 receivers aluminum? The DSA link is to a 7.62 rifle, is this an "apples to oranges" situation? Or does the 5.56 generate the same or greater pressures that the 7.62?


AR-15 receivers are aluminum, but the steel bolt locks into the steel barrel extension on an AR15. On an FAL, the bolt locks against the frame, which is normally steel, but on this 5.56 FAL it is aluminum.
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 1:01:26 PM EDT
Now I see, thanks!
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 1:11:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rcr29:
It says the receiver is aluminum.....

here's what DSA says about aluminum
link


Interesting. I wonder if this 5.56 FAL has been modified so that the upper is not stressed.

Either way I probably wouldnt buy one.
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 1:17:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CK1:
Pistol grip and detachable magazine. OKAY.

Comes factory standard with threaded barrel. Optional folding or collapsable stock. NOT OKAY.

Minimum of pinning a brake onto the barrel. Not sure how the AG would view the quick change barrel because then it is feasible to swap a threaded barrel at a later date.


Move to Free America.
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 4:22:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chris_1522:
I know it would make it a lot more expensive to the point of being impractical, but had they shortened and slightly narrowed the entire action and receiver to accomidate the 5.56x45 round as opposed to just slapping a mag adapter and new bolt & barrel into a 7.62x51, I think it would be lighter, shorter, more practical, and more marketable. I'd buy one then.

Too bad it would be so much more expensive.


I agree.
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 6:30:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By madmedic:

Originally Posted By CK1:
Pistol grip and detachable magazine. OKAY.

Comes factory standard with threaded barrel. Optional folding or collapsable stock. NOT OKAY.

Minimum of pinning a brake onto the barrel. Not sure how the AG would view the quick change barrel because then it is feasible to swap a threaded barrel at a later date.


Move to Free America.


Will do in 1.5 years. Know any FL jobs for a fresh chemical engineering B.S. with too much EMS experience for someone my age who votes according to the Constitution and FF?
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