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Posted: 6/10/2002 2:31:08 PM EDT

 I have spent a great deal of money accumlating more than 20 some odd rifles, shotguns and pistols.  This is not to mention all of the mags and such to maintain my gear.

 My question to you is that if you had a significant amount of credit card debt due to your habit, should I sell some of my gear to payoff my debt.

 My reasoning is that I am getting older and I am interested in having a family.  Yes I have a woman in line and she won't and can't have me sell my gear unless I want to.  I had them before I met her and will have them is she plans to leave.  I also want to get heavy into investing as well.

  What are your thoughts?  Anybody else here in a similar perdictament?

Your input would be greatly appreciated.

Link Posted: 6/10/2002 2:39:46 PM EDT
This might not help...I would have done almost anything to eliminate my accumulated debt before I got married...still in debt, but slowly eating away at it.

ByteTheBullet  (-:
Link Posted: 6/10/2002 2:40:00 PM EDT
if you sell it you can never get it back.
my advice...

sell the nice truck and buy a cheep car.
sell the house and move into an apt.

i have later regretted selling every gun i have ever sold.  sure the guns i replaced them with have been better but they are a part of a person and you will miss them when you sell them.
Link Posted: 6/10/2002 2:42:14 PM EDT
I have sold dozens of firearms over the years and wish that I had never parted with any of them. Try your best to find a way to pay the credit card debts off without selling any of your firearms if you can. Is overtime at work an option? I really have no answers. I dropped all of me credit card debt years ago with a bankruptcy.
Link Posted: 6/10/2002 2:44:38 PM EDT
Gents thanks for the quick response.  I am a Marine and a part time job is out of the question due to the ever changing geopolitical situations.

Anybody else have any more input or suggestions.


Link Posted: 6/10/2002 2:44:55 PM EDT

Unless the card debt is killing you , no. Just cut up all the plastic except 1 for emergencies only and just keep paying til the debt is gone.
(sounds like a BBKing song - the debt is gone)

Link Posted: 6/10/2002 2:45:05 PM EDT
....And then the father said, "Thou shalt never sell a gun!"  

I was taught that was a sin.  I have only sinned a few times......each time I felt even worse.

That said, why don't you get a loan from the bank, with your guns as collateral.  Pay off the credit cards, and ALWAYS PAY THEM OFF EACH MONTH!!!!  NEVER CARRY A BALANCE!  just my .02cents.
Link Posted: 6/10/2002 10:13:11 PM EDT
Terrible idea to sell the guns.

1) You'll never get what they're worth.
2) It'll cost you more than you ever paid for them to reacquire them later, even IF they are available.

Hold off the kids until you get the bills paid down. Have the old lady work some too. >gg<

Semper Fi
Link Posted: 6/10/2002 10:46:56 PM EDT
I regret selling every gun I have ever sold. Just try to keep them.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 2:39:09 AM EDT
If you can swing it don't sell them. You said you will be raising a family and you may want to pass them on to your son or daughter when they are old enough. One of my most valued possessions is a side by side shotgun my gandfather gave me.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 4:48:09 AM EDT
Decide which ones are important to you and which ones are not.  I agree that it might cost you more to replace them in the future, but years of paying credit card interest can hurt too.  

The other thing to consider is do you own your own home?  If not, having a great deal of debt can make this more difficult.  I would sell almost anything else before I sold my guns, but I would get rid of the debt.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 5:10:34 AM EDT
You don't say how much debt you've got, but if you're asking it's obviously making you uncomfortable.  

Look at it this way.....

If the the collection is paid for, keep them and shoot less.  

If weapons purchases have driven your credit card debt, sell some.

I'm not one of those people who greatly misses weapons I've sold. It's been a learning experience for me and after 25 years I know what works for me.  With 20 weapons you should know what's working for you and; should you decide to sell, sell the weapons that you know you wouldn't pick up 10 years from now if the shtf.

At 20%+ interest, getting your credit cards paid off should be a priority; the interest alone will kill you. Keep one card for an emergency but cut up the rest. If your wife isn't working, she needs a job. Hold off on children until your financial situation is more stable; you don't say how old you are but I'm betting you have time, even if it takes a couple years. If you're really in over your head, get some professional financial advice, your bank should be able to help. If the debt is causing you problems at home, get some counselling too. Financial problems kill a lot of marriages.

If you own your own home, DO NOT, whatever you do, sell your home and move to an apartment to pay off credit card debt. You get equity in your home when you pay your mortgage, you get a receipt when you pay rent. In 30 years you'll have nothing but a stack of receipts for all the money you've paid for an apartment.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 6:01:49 AM EDT
Depends on how much debt you have.

If you've been in your home a while, a home equity loan may be a good answer.

If you have a car note, I'd look at reducing that somehow. Cars are nothing but an expense anyway, might as well minimize it.

You could always sell a few of the more common pieces of your collection if you're not too attached to them.  But never get rid of a good gun, or a rare gun, or an heirloom... you'll have ample opportunity to regret it.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 6:12:45 AM EDT
I have sold two guns and haven't regretted it for a second.  A Smith & Wesson Sigma SW9M piece of crap and A Raven .25 even bigger piece of crap.

My advice - like others - keep the guns, stop using the cards, and pay them off.  Cut other corners first.

Link Posted: 6/11/2002 6:23:04 AM EDT
Jack19 just gave you some outstanding advise!
I do not believe in debt. It makes you a slave!
I may not have as big a gun collection as some people on this board,but I own everything I have
and owe no man. I have friend who has a very large collection but he is drowning in debt. It may take me longer to have a collection like his but it will belong to me and not a creditor.
Plus I will be able to pass down to my son a very nice gun collection instead of passing him down a load of debt. If it takes selling some guns to help pay down some debt then I think you should.When it comes down to it you really don't need that many guns to defend your family with, most of us have more than we need because we just enjoy collecting. You will enjoy life more with less debt.

Good Luck!
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 6:29:21 AM EDT
My advise differs. When I got married (13 years ago next month) I was in sad shape financially. As soon as we got pregnant I sold my sports car, jeep,pool table and all my guns and bought a mini-van. It took 6 years to get out of credit card debt. We started a business and finally, about 10 years and 3 kids into the marriage we are doing well and only have a mortgage on our home and business property. I have been able to replace the guns I really missed and buy some new ones. Bottom line, get your finances in order as early as you can. Money problems are incredibly stressful but it does show you what your bride is made of. My advice is reduce your debt, concentrate on your carreer. beleive me, you will pay a hell of a lot more to replace these guns later, but if you can afford it so what?
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 6:29:48 AM EDT
Many times I have lost interest in a particular gun that I was excited about before. If you find that you are not drawn to any of them anymore then perhaps those could be parted with...
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 7:24:44 AM EDT
Maxel27, I am going to make some assumptions here, as I don’t know your situation.  First if you have a home DO NOT SELL IT.  Equity in a house is one of the best investments you will ever make.  Second, TURE freedom means being debt free just as much as keeping and bearing arms.  I am as “sick” as the next AR15.com person when it comes to wanting more guns for the collection.  But not at the horrific cost of debt!  

Now get rid of that debt.  Time to get hard core.  No flaming here, but I am going to give you some tough love.  Again, I will have to make some assumptions so if some suggestions do not apply, then disregard them.  There are a lot of places you can cut cost.  You have lived the good life on credit but that must end.  Immediately stop using credit unless it’s a personal safety or family emergency.  You must start living within your means.  That means you pay cash for everything.  If you don’t have the money in the bank, you can’t afford it!  There is a lot we can do before we have to sell the guns.

Next, cut out luxuries.  Stop going out to eat.  Shop smart and eat at home.  Take you lunch (if that applies).  Plan out enough food for the week.  Stop drinking at bar prices.  Social nights out are expensive!  Rent a video and stay in, its much cheaper.

How about transportation?  First do you NEED a car?  Do you NEED two cars?  Car payments are killer.  This may be the hardest to do.  Cars define a person in America today, but that it BS.  You don’t need a slick ride, you just need transportation.  Seriously evaluate your transportation needs.  You may need at least one car.  Consider selling a high priced vehicle and getting an older used model.  Consider becoming a one car family.  Older station wagons are the deal of the century.  Never raged on, usually good condition, and cheap because everyone is too proud to drive them.  An older car will save on insurance too.  Make sure you have some savings to cover repairs.

Household expense.  Time to look at bills.  Dump cable.  Don’t get me started on what a fricken waste TV is.  I don’t even own a TV myself.  How about the phone?  Do you spend a lot on long distance or all the fancy phone services?  Dump your long distance service.  Get a pre paid calling card for 3.5 cents a minute.  Dump all the call waiting/caller id stuff.  Look at all your house hold expenses and reevaluate what you really need.

Still need more debt reduction?  Lets look at the guns.  Blasphemy!  Give me a chance here…  In a personal defense, family defense, or SHTF situation you will never bring 20 guns to bare.  Most of us have fluff in out collection.  I do, but I can afford it.  Absolutely keep the core stuff.  I would eat spam and dog food before I sold my core weapons.  Look at the big picture.  Financial security is almost as important as physical security.  The truth is your 20 guns are not YOUR collection, right now it’s the bank’s collection.  If you default long enough on your payments they will come for all your possessions for payment.   Consider putting the fluff on the market at a fair price.  Right now you can sit on them until a buyer comes along with a fair bid.  If you are forced by creditors to have a fire sale you will have to accept pennies on the dollar.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 7:25:29 AM EDT

Beware the dangers of consumerism.  Sadly it is the American way to spend to the limit of you ability, then get credit and spend more.  This is a trap and an assault on your personal freedom.  You are not free while the bank has title to all your possessions.  Living a debt free life is not easy.  You will feel left out.  You will be envious of others and their possessions.  Your peers may ridicule you.  It is hard work living debt free.  Frankly I doubt you can do it. Most can not.  The scourge of consumerism is once you get hooked on the “good life” it’s hard to live with less.  

If you do embrace living within your means and a debt free life style you will find great comfort and freedom.  You will feel less anxiety and stress.  You will sleep better at night.  You will feel and BE freer.  Personally I have done ALL the above in order to live a DEBT FREE life.  I truly practice what I have preached.  I used to live well beyond my means and have debt up to my armpits.  Now I pay cash for everything.  My wife and I have very little debt.  We live and spend well below our means.  Good luck!  
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 7:29:12 AM EDT
Max:  I wrote this simultaneously as Markl32 wrote his; we obviously agree on many points:

1) Stop buying stuff on the card.  It is for motel reservations, rental cars, and emergencies.  To pay off the card, you must make payments of more than the monthly minimum.  

2) Except for food, stop buying stuff, period.  Don't buy stuff unless you first ask yourself "Do I really need this?  What is the need?  What is the benefit?  Can I do without?  Is there a lower-cost alternative?"  Cut back on dining out.  You can buy groceries and fix a decent meal for about $3 a head and even less, going easy on the meat.  McDonalds and other fast food joints are much more expensive.

3)  Develop a monthly and annual budget with a spreadsheet program -- put in all the income and outgo.  Get a small notebook; you have to keep track of every cent you spend to get a handle on it.  You'll quickly see where it goes, and then can develop a plan to change.

4) I agree with the other posts about downsizing your vehicle, but if you now have a late model high priced something and can sell it and buy a decent used smaller car.  Example -- I see lots of young guys here just out of high school/service/college buy a new pickup.  Do they use it to haul things?  No.  They just make the "Young American Male Automotive Statement", and the payments to the bank to go with it.  I practice what I preach - my personal vehicle is an 11 year old Pontiac Bonneville, for which I paid $4000 several years ago.

5) You want to invest, and you need to purchase assets that produce either income or capital appreciation (grow in value).  Do this by paying yourself first.  When you develop your budget, see what you can stretch to afford to set aside in a money market fund until you have about the equivalent in two or three months' worth of expenses in cash.  This can come from what you save in cutbacks in dining out, cigs, etc.  And be absolutely religious about it.  After that goal is met, look at mutual funds or group of funds to switch some of the cash into and monitor it. Talk to some people that you know who invest and seek their recommendations.  Most successful investors are flattered by sincere requests and can't resist sharing some info.  Once out of the Corps, and successfully employed (saying that you don't stay in) consider for a first home buying a duplex in a decent neighborhood and living in one unit and renting the other.  Put that income toward paying off the mortgage, and "pay" your own money market account a monthly amount equal to what you would be paying in rent to someone else if you didn't own.  In no time you will have enough for another down payment, and you can then rent both units in the duplex.  See?  You bought an asset that gains in value and produces income.  Most people consider their house an asset, but it is really an expense - it may or may not increase in value, it produces no income, it requires maintenance $$$, it is not very liquid, and is only worth whatever someone will be willing to pay for it when you sell it.

6) My recommendation on the guns is to inventory them and see what you could do without and only sell those in an emergency. Take whatever you have to sell to a gunshow and stand out front or walk the aisles looking for a non-dealer buyer.

HTH, and Semper Fi

Link Posted: 6/11/2002 7:50:24 AM EDT

Some very good advice above...just a little to add.  Compromise would be a good solution here.  Out of your 20 arms, sell your 5 or 10 least favorite.  Yes, you will take it in the shorts, but try to sell to friends to mitigate the loss.  

Second, use the proceeds to pay down your debt.  Like mentioned above, draw up a spreadsheet of your income and your expenses...cut corners WHEREVER possible.

Example, if you're leasing a nice car with a substantial payment, think about buying something a little more humble. Life without a car payment is very nice.  Plus, you can use the additional cash to again, pay down debt/invest.

Last, consolidate your debt...find the lowest apr available to you and consolidate your debt on a payment schedule.  There are offers out there with low introductory apr's for transfered balances.

The magic is in the numbers.  If you can manage $200 in savings per month and compound it over 30 years (assuming 11%)...you'd end up with $560K....not bad.  

Good luck my friend.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 7:52:14 AM EDT
Hey, why don't you let us know what you've got.  We can help you out with your little "crisis".


I regret selling every gun I have ever sold. Just try to keep them.

what he said.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 7:59:51 AM EDT
Good recommendations up and down the line.

Do you smoke?  Quit NOW.  Aside from the obvious health risks, smoking cigarettes, cigars etc. is literally burning money.  So quit if you smoke.

Drink a lot?  Again, quit ASAP.  You are literally pissing away money and brain cells that you need.

Link Posted: 6/11/2002 9:14:45 AM EDT
Good recommendations up and down the line.

Do you smoke?  Quit NOW.  Aside from the obvious health risks, smoking cigarettes, cigars etc. is literally burning money.  So quit if you smoke.

Drink a lot?  Again, quit ASAP.  You are literally pissing away money and brain cells that you need.

Cut up the credit cards, save one for emergencies and don't use it.  If you have to ask yourself "Is this an emergecy," it probably isn't.

Stop going to movies, rent 'em instead.  You can rent 3 videotapes for the price of a single movie on the town.

Stop eating out.  You can do without the extra calories anyhow.

Stop ordering in.  Even worse than eating out.

Get rid of the status symbol cars, buy yourself a GEO Metro or something else that is lean on gas and not to expensive to own. If you must own a truck, get yourself a well maintained used truck.  I paid 2500 for my truck and it runs great, looks decent, little rust, 4x4, etc.

Consolidate all your debt into a single bank loan if you can manage it. You'll waste less time and energy paying bills, you'll probably get a break on interest rates, and because you'll only have the one bill to pay as opposed to several, the potential for missing a payment is MUCH smaller.

If you own a home, consider getting an equity loan to pay off your credit cards.  Home equity loan rates are almost always WAAAAY lower than credit card interest rates.  So while you will take a step backwards from the goal of actually owning the place outright, you will take a big step forward in controlling your debt.

If you don't live on post, consider moving into the barracks for a while.  You'll lose your seperate rats and seperate quarters pay, but I've never heard of anyone ever coming out ahead on that anyway...you always have to tap into your base pay for rent and food.  So eat in the mess hall and sleep in the barracks for a while and pocket the extra money you would be paying in rent and at the grocery store.  Plus you'll burn less gas getting into work each day.

Okay.  Now look at your guns.  If there is anything you don't need or doesn't turn your crank anymore, consider selling it off.   You WILL lose money on this deal unless your entire collection is pre-ban purchased before the ban related price increases.

good luck.

BTW I was in your same situation a few years ago.  I was tens of thousands of dollars in debt.  It took years of real careful going to get clear.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 9:50:40 AM EDT
Keep one credit card for emergency use.  
Arrange to have your other cards paid off by taking the money out of an account set up directly from your paycheck.
Don't buy any more guns until your credit is paid off.
...who am I to talk?

I know what you're goin' through, 'cuz I'm a 'junkie', too.
Good Luck and I'll try to take my own advice.
Thanks for serving your Country, Marine.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 11:09:50 AM EDT
1.) Cut up your credit cards
2.) Stop spending any money except on essentials
3.) Pay off the Debt As Soon and As Fast as Possible.
4.) Once the Debt is paid off, Start Saving like crazy and build up a savings account.
5.) Once you have a pretty good Savings Account, start researching some Mutual Funds..and start investing some money. Also invest money in Real Estate. Owning your own Home (Not paying Mortgage) and owning some Rental Property.
6.) Keep the Collection. Assume the worst (that the future Marriage will go sour), that way at least you will still keep your guns.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 11:30:03 AM EDT
Just sold a preban eagle arms and already I am missing it. If it is credit card debt that you are worried about, there are tons of companies that will sign you up for up to one year with no intrest. Get that card, transfer all you debt to it and pay you regular payment. Since it is intrest free, you will pay it off faster and by far spend less money to do it. If it takes longer than one year, repeat process until debt is all gone.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 11:45:46 AM EDT
Diamonds may come and go, but guns are forever.
[Edited fer spellin, dang it]
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 3:26:54 PM EDT

 Thanks for the great replies.

 I have already done the following:

Canceled all my extra credit cards.

Stopped eating out as much.

Stopped drinking completely.  That is canned wheaties.

Pay cash.

Stopped going out as much.

Switched to lower rate credit cards.

Started to aggressively pay off bills.  Highest % first.

Still having a hard time departing with some of my firearms.

As for my vehicle it is not too bad or expensive.

Thanks again

Link Posted: 6/11/2002 4:30:04 PM EDT
Max, go to the FSC and do a budgeting class.
Another option is Consumer Credit Counceling.
Companies like Ameridebt and Profina that you make a lump sum payment to and they send it to the credit card companies.
Te only drawback to them is that you cannot get ANY new cards or other type of debt, unless it for a car or house.
But they work with the CC companies and get the rates lowered. They will also get paid off quicker.
As a single barracks rat, you really don't have much in the way of NEEDS, just WANTS.
I just wish that when I was a barracks rat, I had bought  guns.....
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