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Posted: 10/5/2005 11:05:46 AM EDT
Well stopped in to see a guy about a bobcat arms cheapie and started talking which led into him showing me an MP5SD. Little info on it, he has pulled the sear for himself and has the gun on a clipped and pinned lower but it still remains a Supressed SBR. I'm trying to find out what the real value of this would be. I know with the sear it's about $13,000 +. He's looking for $5800 out of it as it stands. i don't know if I'd be getting bent on the deal or not. The gun is an easy 95% or better. As much as I'd like to have one F/A it's simply not finacially possible at the moment. Any help and opinions would be great.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 11:19:33 AM EDT
Sears are going for about 10K right now, and I know of two MP5SD's for under 14K.

You decide.

Link Posted: 10/5/2005 11:23:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By osprey21:
Sears are going for about 10K right now, and I know of two MP5SD's for under 14K.

You decide.



So that would put the value on this around $3500-$4000?
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 11:42:10 AM EDT
I've seen semi MP-5s with long barrels go for 3200.  That doesn't seem like to bad of a price, but If I was gonna pony up that much cash, I'd go ahead and get one in FA.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 7:18:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2005 7:22:40 PM EDT by Dano523]
It's not a good deal.  
If the rifle started out as a HK-94, then theres $3000, add a True HK SD reflex can and replacement barrel, then deduct for it being used,$800.  The rifle should sell for less than $4000, and don't forget that it's going to be a two tax stamp weapon.

Also, with the barrel porting into the can, you need to run +p ammo to have any real knock down power (read the can/barrel turns super sonic ammo into sub sonic ammo).

Now if your smart, you pull the $5800 from the $13000 the rifle is worth with the sear, and offer him $7200 for Just the sear!!!!

P.S. A Brand New HK germany form 5 MP5SD is about $1850, so keep that in mind when thinking about the cost of parts.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 6:54:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dano523:

P.S. A Brand New HK germany form 5 MP5SD is about $1850, so keep that in mind when thinking about the cost of parts.



One thing that makes this logic improbable is, that you can not legally buy a MP5 SD parts kit.
You can get some of the parts, but the suppressor portion you can not.
Most gun smith have to fabricate these parts, which makes gun builds expensive.  Shop around and I think you will agree.

I would estimate a good condition semi German MP5 SD at least at $4000 alone.  H&K auto sears are going from $9500 to $10500.  Although more commonly right at $10k.

Good luck
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 8:04:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2005 8:05:01 AM EDT by ASO544]

offer him $7200 for Just the sear!!!!

Yeah, that will go over like a fart in church!!!!!

HK MP5SDs (HK conversions) are getting harder to come by and the wait to have a true HK94 converted to an SD can be very, very long and expensive. I would guess that an excellent condition MP5SD (HK conversion) would easily touch the 5K mark. I know you see them for 13.5-14.5K on the boards with a sear but for some reason it seems to be cheaper when they are together. I have yet to see an SD alone for under 5k unless it is a SW, Bobcat, etc.... type converstion. I think $5800 is too high.

I just sold my HK MP5SD w/ sear (bought an M-60 E-4 ), and while the SD is cool, I prefer my full-auto MP5K with AAC Striker 2 can. I would suggest going that route as MP5K / SP89s are on the boards all the time.


Semper Fi,
ASO544
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 3:06:01 PM EDT
Las_Vegas_HK,
Not thinking parts kit, thinking post sample MG, then Reciever distroyed to free up the parts.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:06:34 PM EDT
IM inbound
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 6:23:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/7/2005 6:28:03 AM EDT by SigKev]
Well, since I am in the process of getting my MP5SD SBR back from Jayson at IGF in the next week :)  I can give you some input.  Seems to me that there are two things to consider.  

First is the host gun.  If you go with a HK94 you are looking at $2-3K right now, given the CA DOJ guns that are out on the market right now.  If you start with a SW5 receiver or complete gun, you are looking at $500 to $1.5K.  

Second is the build and parts.  
(1) If you purchase a MP5SD gun that is cut up for parts, they seem to be going for $1.5K to $3K.  Then you have the build which would probably be in the $750 to $1K range.  The total would be in the $4.25K to $7K range for the complete gun German gun or $2.75K to $5.5K range for a SW/German gun.
(2) If you get a C2/C3 gunsmith like Jayson to build the suppressor and do the work, it seems to cost $1.5K to $2K for the work plus suppressor.  The total would be in the $3.5K to $5K range for a gun built on a German receiver and $3K to $3.5K for a SW based gun.

Obviously, you could end up spending more, for example, if your HK94 host had already been "invested" in like having the barrel replaced with a three lug, or you upgraded the trigger pack, etc.

Also keep in mind that you now have a two tax stamp gun because it is a SBR and has a suppressor.  And unless your gunsmith makes a fake can for your rifle, the suppressor needs to always be on the gun, so it is difficult/impossible to separate the two and make it a one tax gun.

Any way you look at it, you are going to pay a great deal for a gun that is not very practical, but certainly very cool.

I wish I could post pics of my SD, but it will be another week or so before I can do that :)

Edited to add that given my comments above, $5800 might be a little high for a used SD conversion on a HK94 host.  I think the reason why the full SD machine guns are a little soft in the market is because many of them are sear guns, which means it is a THREE tax gun.  If you are purchasing out of state that means $1,200 in taxes just to get it to you.  That takes some serious commitment.  Add to it that you are possibly talking about NINE transactions with the ATF... and I think those two points explain why the price on these particular machine guns are soft.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 11:07:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dano523:
Las_Vegas_HK,
Not thinking parts kit, thinking post sample MG, then Reciever distroyed to free up the parts.



It is my understanding that if you can find a post sample MP5 SD that someone is willing to de-mill for you, that they have to demill the receiver, as well as the suppressor portion.

I think alot of the expense for a MP5 SD build using a MP5 SD parts kit, is #1, the cost of the parts kit and #2, the suppressor portion has to be custom fabricated.  
Meaning, in additon to supplying a MP5 receivers, there are suppressor parts that have to be made, that are destroyed during the demilling process.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 4:00:26 PM EDT
Thanks for all the input so far. I've been staying up late and trying to do my home work on these weapons but the more I read, the less sleep i get, the more questions I have. I'm pretty sure at thi spoint I'm going to cut to the chase and just drop the dollar on full auto. I'm leaning strongly towards the mp5K pwd. I'm thinking with a can I'm a 2 stamp gun correct? I'm assuming these are all host guns with registered sears and not all genuine HK??? granted i want one yesterday but in making a purchase/investment this large I want to know all I can for an educated purchase decision. I'm asumong unlike the AR family, the lower receiver means nothing. I'm getting confused with "Navy Lowers, remarked lowers, swing down lowers etc. Can someone clear this up a little for me? What is it I should stay away from and what is better than others any why. I was checking out a 3 lug sear gun w/ an AWC Can. Why are some of these 4 position and some 3 position select fire weapons? Is it the maufacturer of the sear?
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 5:30:11 AM EDT
If you haven't already,  read this;
hkpro.com/hkconversions.htm

Sheds some light on the mysterious 'Ins & Outs' of HK conversions.

Link Posted: 10/8/2005 8:41:52 AM EDT
I think it is a great choice.

I would try and find an S&H or Fleming SP89/MP5K conversion with a 3-lug barrel and a registered sear. That way you could always buy a HK93 or HK91 later on, get the full-auto carriers and have 3 full autos using one sear. I prefer the SEF lowers (burst is a gimmick) as the Navy are ambidextrous and the right side selector hits my grip hand. Swing down lower = registered receiver which means no registered sear and no using other HK rifles. A registered receiver = one machine gun period. A sear can mean numerous. Just my thoughts.

The MP5K is a great gun but it can be a 2-tax gun if it is SBR'd. If it is not, then legally you cannot use the sear in another HK firearm, as it would leave the K as a unregistered SBR. I bought mine as a 1 tax gun then SBRd it so I could use the sear in other HKs.

I have owned a MP5, MP5SD, and the MP5K. The "K" is my favorite and with a AAC Striker 2 with 147 grain ammo, it is damn quite.... and runs fast as %&^#!!!!!

Pony up the money now, causes price are a little flat but summer is ending and they are fixing to rise.

Semper Fi,
ASO544



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