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Posted: 7/21/2009 6:16:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2009 5:32:34 AM EST by Bittner182]
Back in 1986 the local pd did a gun collection for any war trophy auto weapons. My uncle turned in his MP40 submachine gun.

I recently found police dept report given as a receipt for the weapon. It reads "Received from *uncle* on MP40 German Submachine Gun Serial ######## to be held in safekeeping at the *Police Dept*." 9-26-86

Is there any chance the MP40 could be recovered, if the weapon is still at the dept? It is still in the locker! Could it be transfered to me if I was eligible for a class 3 weapon?

Link Posted: 7/21/2009 6:20:09 AM EST
I would'nt hold my breath
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 6:24:32 AM EST
I doubt its still there, but good luck finding out
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 6:42:37 AM EST
If it has a tax stamp, why not?

It may have to go through probate. I'm assuming your uncle is deceased.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 7:07:09 AM EST
Lawyer.

They are the only class of parasite annoying enough to get under someone's skin at your local PD to track down what happened to it.

Destroyed or someone's ranch gun is what happened to many of those. Most local and state PD simply don't have the luxury of storing it "with top men, Top... Men..."
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 7:55:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/21/2009 7:57:51 AM EST by Bittner182]
My uncle is actually still alive and kicking.

I think I need to give the pd a call.

I would imagine the gun could be tracked down by the serial number even if it was sold by the dept.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:43:15 AM EST



i don't understand this at all...

what was the "collection"? were they *borrowing* people's weapons for something and never gave it back, or were they allowing people to "donate" contraband with no questions asked?

if it was the latter, and even if the gun was properly registered, i can't imagine you have a prayer in hell of getting it back...


Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:50:47 AM EST
Most likely not registered as class 3 and was turned in. No way you can get it, if that is the case. Most likely destroyed a long time ago.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:51:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bittner182:
Back in 1986 the local pd did a gun collection for any war trophy auto weapons.


IIRC these were done for "bring backs" that had never been registered in the NFRTR.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 9:05:51 AM EST
I believe it is around in some form. The dept actually auctioned off a few Thompsons they from the 1940s earlier this year.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 9:12:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By pyro6988:
Most likely not registered as class 3 and was turned in. No way you can get it, if that is the case. Most likely destroyed a long time ago.


By "war trophy" it sounds as if it's not on the NFA registry, nor was it added during the '68 Amnesty.

If it wasn't NFA taxed/stamped then, it never can be now.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 9:17:10 AM EST
Good luck. A lawyer would be your best bet. But if it was turned in, I doubt it would still be around. If it wasn't registered, you'll never see it again. Ever. Don't kid yourself on that.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 10:04:47 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 10:40:25 AM EST
I will have to go visit him soon. He is in his 90's and his memory is not what it used to be. Is there a way I can run the serial number to see if the weapon is registered?

I don't believe there is any trophy paper work. He sold his house a while back and it was totally cleaned out.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 10:45:54 AM EST
Since your uncle is still around, slap him.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 11:08:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bittner182:
I will have to go visit him soon. He is in his 90's and his memory is not what it used to be. Is there a way I can run the serial number to see if the weapon is registered?

I don't believe there is any trophy paper work. He sold his house a while back and it was totally cleaned out.


you don't have the gun OR any paperwork, but you know the serial number...?


Link Posted: 7/21/2009 11:11:29 AM EST
Yes, the serial was on the receipt from the police dept.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 11:32:02 AM EST
I just got off the phone with ATF. That went as expected, "we can't tell you anything". I have to submit a request on any info to the Chief of Disclosure.
Link Posted: 7/22/2009 4:24:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bittner182:
I just got off the phone with ATF. That went as expected, "we can't tell you anything". I have to submit a request on any info to the Chief of Disclosure.


Sure as hell glad to hear that. I don't particularly want joe schmoe to be able to just call up and ask about rifle X or silencer Y. You'll probably want to hire a lawyer to file the FOIA paperwork. Might take a bit of cash. I'd be willing to bet, though, that the rifle is not registered.

You said you doubt it's a properly registered bring-back b/c you didn't find paperwork in his old house. But you also didn't find any amnesty paperwork, so it has about an equal chance of being registered that way either given that logic.

That being said, I sure as hell hope it's registered for your sake as well as the sake of everybody else in the NFA community. I always hate to see a good machine gun disappear into the ATF black hole..especially one with such history as an MP40.
Link Posted: 7/22/2009 4:32:40 AM EST
It sure is a piece of history. My uncle borrowed it from a captured German platoon leader. It would be a damn shame for the weapon to be lost in the black hole of the world.

I have been slowly gathering family firearms as individuals pass. It is amazing how many war rifles were brought home in those times. I'm pretty sure my kids will never see my M9 or M4, maybe a magazine or two.
Link Posted: 7/22/2009 4:43:18 PM EST
Maybe some good news. One of the officers at the the dept believes the weapon is still there. He also gave me a supervisors name and number.
Link Posted: 7/22/2009 6:05:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bittner182:
Maybe some good news. One of the officers at the the dept believes the weapon is still there. He also gave me a supervisors name and number.


Just another twist in the scenario that seems unlikely to recover the gun .. if the PD registered the gun on a Form 10, regardless of prior registration, (F10 is for PD registration that doesn't require any info as to where the gun came from or why) the gun is untouchable and even by SOT's. This can happen with an everyday transferrable m16 that you paid $12K for and the PD seized the gun at the time your neighbors bitched about your auto shooting. SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT!
Link Posted: 7/22/2009 7:17:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By ds762:
Originally Posted By Bittner182:
Maybe some good news. One of the officers at the the dept believes the weapon is still there. He also gave me a supervisors name and number.


Just another twist in the scenario that seems unlikely to recover the gun .. if the PD registered the gun on a Form 10, regardless of prior registration, (F10 is for PD registration that doesn't require any info as to where the gun came from or why) the gun is untouchable and even by SOT's. This can happen with an everyday transferrable m16 that you paid $12K for and the PD seized the gun at the time your neighbors bitched about your auto shooting. SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT!


I'd be interested to know this as well, but the OP said that they had some thompsons that they sold off before, so maybe someone at the dept was in the "know". Might get lucky.
Link Posted: 7/23/2009 5:35:44 AM EST
I just got off the phone with the pd. The gun is still there! They could not sell it earlier this year because it was not registered. Sounds like bad news for having a functional weapon.

What is the best way to get it home in some shape or form. I was thinking have the receiver cut and put a dummy on it.
Link Posted: 7/23/2009 12:45:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2009 12:48:50 PM EST by ds762]
Originally Posted By Bittner182:
I just got off the phone with the pd. The gun is still there! They could not sell it earlier this year because it was not registered. Sounds like bad news for having a functional weapon.

What is the best way to get it home in some shape or form. I was thinking have the receiver cut and put a dummy on it.


the gun may be there .. and it may have came from your uncle .. but it was not registered hence it can't be transferred to you in a complete functional legal form.

IF they are willing .. you could have the receiver cut and destroyed and purchase/obtain the parts. That is IF they are willing to do that ...... I wouldn't hold my breath on this one.

ETA: Personally if it was me .. I would ask the PD to register the gun on a Form 10 and donate it to a bonafide museum. This way the gun can still be appreciated rather than cut up.
Link Posted: 7/23/2009 12:54:33 PM EST
The PD might not have been able to sell it because it wasn't registered to them. Also, registry isn't everything...as has been stated before, if he has the "bring back" papers, you can likely get the gun added to the registry if it isn't there, but you want a competent attorney, who knows NFA, to handle it. I have had success with determining if a firearm is registered in a different way. Call up the NFA Branch and let them know that you are interested in purchasing a NFA firearm and you want to make sure that "insert serial number" is properly registered. Of course, the problem with this scenario is if the gun isn't registered, they are going to want to know who has it. The other option is for you to hire an attorney and have him call. An attorney has to keep your info private and it is privileged. Thus, he can inquire and the BATFE can't force him to give over the info.
Link Posted: 7/23/2009 4:51:41 PM EST
Well, who knows an NFA attorney in Ohio? I'd be willing to drop some dough to keep this thing in the family.
Link Posted: 7/23/2009 4:57:59 PM EST
try the home town forum.

good luck man. i hope it goes your way.
Link Posted: 7/23/2009 5:17:07 PM EST
IIRC, the ATF does not respond to phone inquiries about a serial number being in the registry or not. The request must be in writing.

Kharn
Link Posted: 7/23/2009 5:26:19 PM EST
I know for a fact that they do respond to serial number requests over the phone. Been there done that. Call and ask to speak with Section Chief Rob Howard. You don't necessarily need an attorney in Ohio because it involves federal law. You could hire any NFA attorney to do the call.
Link Posted: 7/23/2009 5:26:19 PM EST
I wish you the best of luck .. but don't hold your breath and remember the phrase "needle in a haystack"
Link Posted: 7/23/2009 6:22:23 PM EST
This is a very interesting thread!!!....Please!! keep us informed on whatever the results.......Good luck!
Link Posted: 7/24/2009 3:54:23 PM EST
Yes, do not limit yourself to Ohio attorneys, unless there happens to be a good one about. This is a fairly straightforward telephone action, so hire the right attorney wherever he might be.

You'll have to do the leg work first in determining if there are bring-back papers. Without them, it's not worth the consultation fee.
Link Posted: 7/24/2009 4:04:11 PM EST
tag

this is interesting
Link Posted: 7/31/2009 9:59:13 AM EST
Did you find a lawyer yet?
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 6:01:40 AM EST
The evidence guy at the pd did some checking for me. It is not registered in any way. I asked about destroying the receiver and getting the parts. He was not sure about the procedure to do so.

He suggested contacting a museum, they may be able to get it.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 7:43:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bittner182:
The evidence guy at the pd did some checking for me. It is not registered in any way. I asked about destroying the receiver and getting the parts. He was not sure about the procedure to do so.

He suggested contacting a museum, they may be able to get it.


well .. mr. evidence guy is not aware of the proper channels ..

a PD needs to register the gun on a F10 first before it can be transferred to a museum.

the procedure is as simple as removing all the parts you can from the tube .. and get a torch and cut the SOB. there are no forms to fill out as its not on paperwork registration anyway.

what chaps my ass is that the PD can "legally" posess the gun as far as they are concerned (yes, I know its just as ILLEGAL) and the ATF probably wouldn't go after the PD for unregistered NFA like they would if a common Joe had it.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 1:57:27 PM EST
Do not rush to have the weapon destroyed!!! You've waited this long, try all of your options.

Ask this question on Uzi Talk.. there is someone there who has done this before, who can offer some insights and guidance.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 4:27:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By eodinert:
Do not rush to have the weapon destroyed!!! You've waited this long, try all of your options.

Ask this question on Uzi Talk.. there is someone there who has done this before, who can offer some insights and guidance.


UziTalk or not .. the gun is not registered .. hence he can not legally posess the gun. What part of that do you not comprehend?
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 7:48:38 PM EST
I would not even consider cutting the gun for parts. The valuable part of this gun is that your uncle survived and brought it back. You should contact a museum to see about having them adopt it as is.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 8:02:08 PM EST
There is NO reason to allow it to be destroyed, there are museums all over the country that will happly accept it on a F10. If you allow it to be destroyed you have let a great peice of history die. Its a great way to share what you uncle and many others did for our Country.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 3:23:39 PM EST
Dont most museums weld up barrels etc?
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 3:52:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bittner182:
Dont most museums weld up barrels etc?


most will remove functional parts like firing pins etc. .. if donated to a museum it will remain intact and uncut .. and likely displayed in a non-functional method due to safety/security.
Link Posted: 8/11/2009 10:29:37 AM EST
Hey, we have a National Guard Army museum here in Columbia, SC. Over on Bluff Rd. Google it, it might come up, and they would probably love to have it in their collection.
Link Posted: 8/11/2009 10:55:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/11/2009 11:35:38 AM EST by steve_moore]
Tag for outcome.

A friend of mine was cleaning out an attic when this old lady was moving and found a WW2 german machine gun. He took it to the local fun shop and they called the cops on him. I think they put it on display. I got to hold it and wanted to shoot it, but we never got to because of his stupidity.

It's this one:

http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg02-e.htm
Link Posted: 8/11/2009 12:41:55 PM EST
Cool story. MP40s are usually what I come across when I get a call from someone aboout a gun in the closet.
Link Posted: 8/11/2009 1:06:43 PM EST
Nothing new lately just making calls since I am not at home.
Link Posted: 8/11/2009 3:57:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By ds762:
Originally Posted By eodinert:
Do not rush to have the weapon destroyed!!! You've waited this long, try all of your options.

Ask this question on Uzi Talk.. there is someone there who has done this before, who can offer some insights and guidance.


UziTalk or not .. the gun is not registered .. hence he can not legally posess the gun. What part of that do you not comprehend?



What part of 'It's been done before' don't you understand?

I know what the law says, and I know of at least one event similar to this where the weapon was added to the registry. Depending on the circumstances, there may be options.

All I'm saying is this question should be posted on Uzitalk, and the person who did it will have an opportunity so speak about it. It will be helpful.
Link Posted: 8/12/2009 1:05:25 PM EST
Ive come across guns with only capture papers and someone always feeds the story taht it can be added to the registry etc.

But apparently it's a top secret method. No one can tell you who to talk to, where to write, who to call, who to make donations to, who to blow, etc. So to say the least, I think its a farce that anything not currently registered is going to all teh sudden be added and transferable.

Link Posted: 8/12/2009 1:41:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bittner182:
Back in 1986 the local pd did a gun collection for any war trophy auto weapons. My uncle turned in his MP40 submachine gun.

I recently found police dept report given as a receipt for the weapon. It reads "Received from *uncle* on MP40 German Submachine Gun Serial ######## to be held in safekeeping at the *Police Dept*." 9-26-86

Is there any chance the MP40 could be recovered, if the weapon is still at the dept? It is still in the locker! Could it be transfered to me if I was eligible for a class 3 weapon?



Wow...that receipt is dated two days after I was born.
Link Posted: 8/12/2009 5:14:11 PM EST
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