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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/24/2005 9:30:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 9:31:53 PM EDT by ZW17]
Title says all.

Background:

She knows her guns, grew up around them, goes to the range with me once and awhile.

5' 6" 110lbs very tiny build so a full size is out.

With that being said I was thinking maybe a 410ga or 20ga. Local city ordnance bans all shotguns/rifles with anything holding over 5 rounds of ammunition.

I am leaning towards a 410ga but have no idea of the ballistics of this round. Do they have a 00 buck shot or anything close? Is the stopping power enough?

She will get extensive safety and weapons training with the said weapon so I don't want the recoil to be too much to scare her off.

Any advice would help.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 9:43:35 PM EDT
You might try a semi auto 16 gauge with a floating barrel. No recoil, easy to use, safe, more umph.

Best of luck Patty
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 9:45:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pattymcn:
You might try a semi auto 16 gauge with a floating barrel. No recoil, easy to use, safe, more umph.

Best of luck Patty



Great idea Patty. I will check into that.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 10:39:47 PM EDT
a 20 guage youth pump shotgun from rem,moss,win sound like what you need. around $200
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 11:11:22 PM EDT
Any full size handgun will do, a handgun is better suited for home protection than a shotgun in my opinion, a revolver is best, very reliable easy to use, point and shoot, a shotgun is too cumbersome, long, can be hard to function when the heat is on (ie) safety, loading, aiming and the biggest part of all a shotgun is a lot easier to take away from someone. a staut revolver like a smith model 66 in 357 will do best, school her with 38's once shes used to it let her rip some 357's. I just dont understand why people insist on using shotguns for home defense, alot of people think its an easy weapon to shoot and that you dont miss, Go to any 3 gun combat match and you'll see trained competitors miss all day long, imagine 3am shes home alone someone comes in the house, she has to get the big ol' shotgun out, rack it if its not loaded which it should be anyway then defend her territory, its alot easier to grap a loaded revolver ready to roll as soon as its picked up. Just my two cents. McM.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 11:23:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motorcityman:
Any full size handgun will do, a handgun is better suited for home protection than a shotgun in my opinion, a revolver is best, very reliable easy to use, point and shoot, a shotgun is too cumbersome, long, can be hard to function when the heat is on (ie) safety, loading, aiming and the biggest part of all a shotgun is a lot easier to take away from someone. a staut revolver like a smith model 66 in 357 will do best, school her with 38's once shes used to it let her rip some 357's. I just dont understand why people insist on using shotguns for home defense, alot of people think its an easy weapon to shoot and that you dont miss, Go to any 3 gun combat match and you'll see trained competitors miss all day long, imagine 3am shes home alone someone comes in the house, she has to get the big ol' shotgun out, rack it if its not loaded which it should be anyway then defend her territory, its alot easier to grap a loaded revolver ready to roll as soon as its picked up. Just my two cents. McM.



VERY VERY strict licencing in this state. She is getting the paperwork ready but I need to get a long gun in the meantime.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 11:32:37 PM EDT
Just got her this:

Mossberg 500E .410ga. Home Defense Shotgun


Thanks for all the ideas guys and gals
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 12:20:59 AM EDT
I cannot fathom any better HD weapon than a properly loaded and equipped shotgun. There isn't a handgun out there that will have more decisvie stopping power than a 12 gauge loaded with 00 or 000 Buck. Handguns require more training and practice to be accurate and efficient with and even with proficeincy, the shotgun still offers a much better chance of a one shot stop. Revolvers lack the round capacity to allow for subsequent follow up shots incase of a miss or a less than immediate mortal wound. A 12gauge using 000 buckshot allows for 9 hits from 9mm lead balls all

at once. Its stopping power is overwhelming, and at close range its unequaled. With the exception of luck or extreme skill and calm under fire, 1 shot stops with a handgun are plausible but unlikely and not somthing that is going to be done when you are starteled out of bed and under the threat of death. I am an excellent shot with a handgun and train for this sort of scenario but I refuse to bet my life on making a 1 shot kill while half a sleep and under immense stress. A shotgun using buck shot creates a pattern which will increase your odds of destroying or damaging a vital organ

making for a lethal shot. It will allow for much more "error" than a handgun. A 16 gauge shotgun is an excellent suggestion but the lack of availible defensive ammo makes it impractical. I think the Remington 870 Youth Express in 20 gauge is the best choice for this application. It will offer plenty of stopping power, but it won't have the punishing recoil or weight of a 12 gauge. A 12gauge using reduced recoil loads would make it more managable, but it will still have a fair amount of recoil and it will be heavier..410 is used by the Russian military but lacks the performance and round availibility of the 20 gauge. Depending on where you live (house or apt) you will have to put more consideration into your load of choice. 00 or 000 buckshot will easily penetrate a wall or two and still be lethal. On the other hand, using light bird shot will cause very nasty shallow wounds which will be very gruesome, but will not penetrate deeply enough to damage major organs and cause

immediate compliance. A better choice may be BBB, T, F, 1 or 4 buck. In a 20 gauge for defense of an Apartment I would suggest using 2 3/4 T or F shot. This is a heavy goose load that is best described as -1 buckshot. It has pellets of enough weight and quantity to provide lethality but less risk of collateral damage and over penetration. This load may be hard to purchase locate and may require odering of the internet, but I reccomend that you at least seriously consider the range of loads I suggested if you live in an apartement or in close proximity to your neighbors. Another consideration would be to add a Speedfeed pistolgrip stock to the weapon. It will make it much easier to use one handed while opening a door or something and will provide more control and absorb addtional recoil, however your local laws may prohibit a pisto grip. Another consideration would be a side saddle or buttcuff shell holder. Good luck
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 8:01:45 AM EDT
I'm getting my mom a S&W 686p with the 2.5in barrel for Christmas. It holds 7 rounds of .38/.357. A shotgun does no good if it's upstairs and you're answering the door downstairs. My mom doesn't handle recoil very well and isn't an experienced shooter, that's why I think this gun will work for her. Something she can keep in her robe pocket if someone comes to the door and a perfect night stand gun. The recoil of a shotgun would be too much for her since she has back problems and training her to load and shoot a pump action shotgun would be too difficult. I also counted out a semi auto pistol since I think it would be over complicated for her. Also if she limp wrists is and gets a feeding/extracting error she wouldn't know what to do. Revolver is a good point and shoot weapon and 7 rounds should be adequate enough for home close quarters defense.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 9:31:09 AM EDT
I wouldn't ever advise a woman to put up a fake such as ratcheting an unloaded shotgun to scare away a threat. Granted the ratchet alone will often deter crime but its never wise to present deadly force with out the ability to use it. Often we are required to improvise when necessary but the whole idea of self preparedness is to be prepared.

You might try an exercise I used with women to teach natural child birth. You might find a movie that's an "on the seat of the pants" type. Like the ending of Jurassic Park where the kids are in the kitchen and you just know they'll be eaten. Before showing her that part have her squeeze your leg to show you how badly the shot gun will hurt her so you can "see" her pain threshold. Then you squeeze her back to see if you've got it about right. {trust me here} then play that part of the movie and squeeze her leg and ask if its the same. I gaurantee it won't be as her mind will be on the movie. In a panic situation our body produces endorphines that protect us from fears. I can gaurantee if properly trained she would have no problem shooting a 12 gauge with slugs at a would be attacker and not feel a thing.

I remember shooting my 340 Weatherby to sight it in. To be quite frank I felt like someone was hitting me with a baseball bat everytime I pulled the trigger. In fact it took concentration to squeeze the trigger and not pull because of anticipation of the re-coil. When I aimed that same rifle at a cow elk and pulled the trigger I didn't feel a thing.

Patty
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 9:35:42 AM EDT
Lightweight M4 with a light and an Aimpoint....

Link Posted: 8/25/2005 11:37:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
Lightweight M4 with a light and an Aimpoint....




Oh come on! You don't actually feel a 223 round inside a home is a good self defense rifle? Not to mention the over penetration possibley hitting another member of the family or even a neighbor in the house next doot. Also, your hearing loose would probably be permanent.

12ga or 20 ga short 18" barrel with #4 buck shoot is the correct answer. Or pistol under pillow.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 11:41:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Las_Vegas_HK:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
Lightweight M4 with a light and an Aimpoint....




Oh come on! You don't actually feel a 223 round inside a home is a good self defense rifle? Not to mention the over penetration possibley hitting another member of the family or even a neighbor in the house next doot. Also, your hearing loose would probably be permanent.

12ga or 20 ga short 18" barrel with #4 buck shoot is the correct answer. Or pistol under pillow.



Thank you! I've been thinking the same thing. My front door lines up perfectly with my son's bed room. If I can shoot a buck from 200 yards with my rifle I doubt a little of dry wall will slow the projectile down the 10 yards to my son's room.

Buy a shotgun. Patty
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 11:45:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZW17:
Just got her this:

Mossberg 500E .410ga. Home Defense Shotgun


Thanks for all the ideas guys and gals



You could not have gotten her a better firearm for home defense....

Excellent choice!

LB
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 11:52:20 AM EDT
I thought he was saying M4 Benelli... Thats what my wife uses...
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 1:41:32 PM EDT
I would have to go with a taser for home defense against girlfriends.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 1:50:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 1:52:43 PM EDT by topgunpilot20]

Originally Posted By Las_Vegas_HK:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
Lightweight M4 with a light and an Aimpoint....




Oh come on! You don't actually feel a 223 round inside a home is a good self defense rifle? Not to mention the over penetration possibley hitting another member of the family or even a neighbor in the house next doot. Also, your hearing loose would probably be permanent.

12ga or 20 ga short 18" barrel with #4 buck shoot is the correct answer. Or pistol under pillow.

Let me get this straight. If you're worried about hitting someone behind your target, you would rather have MANY projectiles, with a 1"-2" spread, capable of penetrating drywall and still being lethal being shot in that direction instead of a .22 size projectile who's effectiveness depends on velocity (which is greatly reduced when passing through drywall)? If you're worried about missing (which I will assume is what you are worried about, since neither #4 shot nor a .223 round will overpenetrate a soft target at room distance), then a .223 is less likely to be lethal after penetrating an interior wall since it will no longer be going fast enough to fragment. This is why so many SWAT teams are switching to .223 rifles from pistol caliber submachine guns. The .223 bullets have less overpenetration problems than even handgun rounds.

And as for permenant hearing loss, you better warn all the US service men clearing houses in Iraq. Oh what, you better write them, since they can't hear anymore.

All that said, I still agree that a shotgun is the best HD weapon for most folks. Why? Because it's simple to operate and takes the least amount of training to be proficient with. If someone is trained with and comfortable using an M4, they should. If they are an experienced pistol shooter, that will work too. If someone is not very experienced with firearms, an shotgun is good because of the longer sight radius (and yes, you do have to aim a shotgun--there is almost no spread at room distance). In the end, "stopping power" all depends on shot placement anyway. What are YOU best with?
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 12:10:37 AM EDT
i would have went with the new semi-auto beretta in 20 ga. I run an 870 but if you are worried about recoil it would allow you to use the bigger guages without as much recoil. now, i have no idea the balistics of a .410, but they seem a little anemic to me for home defense. At that point i would run a pistol. i might be very wrong though.

And i agree with the people that said the shotgun is the ultimate home defense gun - my 870, with training, is about as good as it gets when it comes to defense.

just my .02

Hope she likes the new gun!!!
AA
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:01:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USMC_LB:

Originally Posted By ZW17:
Just got her this:

Mossberg 500E .410ga. Home Defense Shotgun


Thanks for all the ideas guys and gals



You could not have gotten her a better firearm for home defense....

Excellent choice!

LB






Thank you sir.
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