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Posted: 7/16/2013 11:46:10 AM EST
Been reloading for a while, .223 & pistol rounds. Now I want to get into the precision realm of things with my Rem 700 chambered in .308.

I've been using a Forester FL resizing die, but I've been reading about using a neck sizing die instead (until the FL die is required). Furthermore, I'd like to use it without the expander ball to reduced runout.

I'm not sure the best way to go- I see stuff about mandrels, bushing dies, S dies, etc. And I'm not sure what I need.

I just want to neck size while reducing runout & brass strain, and of course, while retaining proper neck tension.

Am I running down a rabbit hole, or is this a valid pursuit?

Link Posted: 7/16/2013 12:01:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/16/2013 12:08:49 PM EST by Trollslayer]
You are "running down a rabbit hole", as you put it.

Still, if you want to try it, how about starting with the FL die you already have. Raise it up in the press until it no longer resizes the case. It will resize just the neck. The only question is this - how small is the neck with your FL die and no expander ball? If your FL die is making the neck too small, consider buying an expander button that resizes the neck "just enough". Entry cost for this option = free

The other approach is a neck sizing die. Entry cost = $30

Lastly, get a Redding Type S die, either FL or Neck die. These dies use bushings allowing you to control the neck diameter without using an expander button. Entry cost = $50



Don't expect to see any accuracy differences unless you have a superbly accurate rifle and good benchrest technique.

Expect chambering problems with the brass. Sooner or later, you will have trouble chambering the neck sized brass.


I hope this helps.
Link Posted: 7/16/2013 12:18:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/16/2013 12:19:44 PM EST by Motor1]
Doesn't the Lee collet neck die make it possible to adjust the neck diameter.

Short sizing with your FL die is an option but its not true neck only sizing. The die can and often does still have an effect on the body diameter of the case.

If I were you I would get a good quality neck size die and the tools needed to measure and correct run out. Buying a die and hoping it creates less run out and not even proving that it does just does not make sense to me.

I used a Redding neck only die when I shot competition. No I never measured run out. Yes my ammo was very accurate as in easily less than MOA. When I quit shooting I had used my LC brass for about 15 cycles and never had to touch it with a full length die. Yes I did anneal the necks. I would do them all when splits would start to occur.
Link Posted: 7/16/2013 1:43:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By Trollslayer:
You are "running down a rabbit hole", as you put it.

Still, if you want to try it, how about starting with the FL die you already have. Raise it up in the press until it no longer resizes the case. It will resize just the neck. The only question is this - how small is the neck with your FL die and no expander ball? If your FL die is making the neck too small, consider buying an expander button that resizes the neck "just enough". Entry cost for this option = free

The other approach is a neck sizing die. Entry cost = $30

Lastly, get a Redding Type S die, either FL or Neck die. These dies use bushings allowing you to control the neck diameter without using an expander button. Entry cost = $50



Don't expect to see any accuracy differences unless you have a superbly accurate rifle and good benchrest technique.

Expect chambering problems with the brass. Sooner or later, you will have trouble chambering the neck sized brass.


I hope this helps.


Yes this does help. Thanks.

Current die without expander ball sizes the interior diameter to 0.290". Too small in my opinion.

I ain't that good of a shot. but would like to minimize the my shooting variables by making quality ammo.
Link Posted: 7/16/2013 1:48:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By Motor1:
Doesn't the Lee collet neck die make it possible to adjust the neck diameter.

Short sizing with your FL die is an option but its not true neck only sizing. The die can and often does still have an effect on the body diameter of the case.

If I were you I would get a good quality neck size die and the tools needed to measure and correct run out. Buying a die and hoping it creates less run out and not even proving that it does just does not make sense to me.

I used a Redding neck only die when I shot competition. No I never measured run out. Yes my ammo was very accurate as in easily less than MOA. When I quit shooting I had used my LC brass for about 15 cycles and never had to touch it with a full length die. Yes I did anneal the necks. I would do them all when splits would start to occur.


I have a RCBS neck die that I haven't tried yet, because I wanted some more opinions on using the expander ball or not.

I'll measure the runout with the brass I sized with the FL die and see how it is.

Link Posted: 7/17/2013 12:48:50 PM EST
I sized about 25 FC & 20 Hornady Match with the Forester FL die and just measured the neck runout on a sampling.

All, regardless of headstamp, were 0.0015 or less. I was happily surprised.

Still looking for the best option for sizing without the expander ball.
Link Posted: 7/17/2013 2:26:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bags533:
I have a RCBS neck die that I haven't tried yet, because I wanted some more opinions on using the expander ball or not.

I'll measure the runout with the brass I sized with the FL die and see how it is.

View Quote


I have the gold medal neck die too. Cant remembrr tge bhshing in it . I bought 2. One is tge next size down. After neck turning and sizeing it seems to br very uniform all tge way around
Link Posted: 7/18/2013 6:27:34 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARsR4ME:


I have the gold medal neck die too. Cant remembrr tge bhshing in it . I bought 2. One is tge next size down. After neck turning and sizeing it seems to br very uniform all tge way around
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARsR4ME:
Originally Posted By bags533:
I have a RCBS neck die that I haven't tried yet, because I wanted some more opinions on using the expander ball or not.

I'll measure the runout with the brass I sized with the FL die and see how it is.



I have the gold medal neck die too. Cant remembrr tge bhshing in it . I bought 2. One is tge next size down. After neck turning and sizeing it seems to br very uniform all tge way around


Thanks good info, regardless of your broken keyboard.
Link Posted: 7/18/2013 6:54:40 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Motor1:
Doesn't the Lee collet neck die make it possible to adjust the neck diameter.


.
View Quote


Yes and No. As purchased, the Lee Collet Neck sizing die is not adjustable. The case neck is squeezed around a mandrel of pre-set diameter. Lee sets these up for approximately .001 neck tension.

These neck dies are excellent dies if you want concentric necks with very little runout. Not only do they produce very concentric necks, you don't need to lube the cases.

If you feel that .001 is not enough neck tension (I don't), then there are a couple ways to "adjust" the collet die. One is to order a "Reduced Mandrel" from Lee. They cost about $5. Or you can chuck the mandrel in a drill or drill press and polish it down to your desired size with some fine emery paper/cloth.

If you are going to give neck sizing a whirl, get a collet die they only cost $20 and they work great.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/555614/lee-collet-neck-sizer-die-308-winchester
Link Posted: 7/18/2013 9:01:40 PM EST
If you're having runout issues with the Forster die, you should adjust the height of the expander ball in the die (i.e. move it up). That is the forte of the Forster die -- it has less runout than other brands because of the relationship of the expander ball to the neck portion of the die.

If you want to neck size only, all you have to do is move your FL die up higher in the tool head. No need to buy a special die.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 9:22:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By bags533:I just want to neck size while reducing runout & brass strain, and of course, while retaining proper neck tension.

Am I running down a rabbit hole, or is this a valid pursuit?

View Quote


The Lee Neck sizing collet die is the best thing ever.

I suffered with the stupid S dies and bushings for WAY TOO LONG. On fired brass, you literally get NO runout. The guage will show like .001" at most when necking fired brass.

Bushing dies were such a pain in the ass... inconsistent runout, different bushing needed for different brass that has different neck thickness, etc.

The upside was that I can still use the bushing die as a body die when I leave the bushing out.... so it wasn't a total loss.
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 11:19:13 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bags533:


Thanks good info, regardless of your broken keyboard.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bags533:
Originally Posted By ARsR4ME:
Originally Posted By bags533:
I have a RCBS neck die that I haven't tried yet, because I wanted some more opinions on using the expander ball or not.

I'll measure the runout with the brass I sized with the FL die and see how it is.



I have the gold medal neck die too. Cant remembrr tge bhshing in it . I bought 2. One is tge next size down. After neck turning and sizeing it seems to br very uniform all tge way around


Thanks good info, regardless of your broken keyboard.



Damn cell phone keypad. Why do we use these stupid things.
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