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Tacked Navigating Deep Woods (Page 3 of 4)
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Link Posted: 7/29/2020 11:56:18 AM EDT
[#1]
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Originally Posted By Diz:
I know several guys have brought this up, but it bears repeating.  Guys these days are not brought up hunting and fishing like when I wuz a kid (and dinosaurs still roamed the earth; just thought I'
d add that in for ya).  So when we talk about nav in deep woods, with I2 or thermal even, we might need to back up and establish a base line here.  If you haven't spent a lot of time out in the woods, especially by yourself, at night, that there is a pre-requisite for operating with I2 or thermal.  These things should not be a crutch that you lean on, and fail to develop an imitate relationship with nay-ture.

Quite honestly, if you are good at night movement, and land nav, you can oftentimes move easier, more efficiently without it.  A lot depends on moon phase,  brush, enemy sit, yadi- yada, but sometimes it's damn near day light out there.  If you are comfortable with being out there, you don't even need it; your eyes work amazingly well when you learn to use them in the dark.  

It's funny, I grew up creeping around in the dark.  I lived in base housing, surrounded by chain link and barbed wire, with armed security guards at the gates.  In the summers we would roam all around, as late as our parents would allow.  If we did "sleep overs" of course we snuck out and walked around, playing hide n go seek with the roving security patrols.  I spent summers at my aunt's ranch in Oklahoma.  Hunting and fishing damn near every day.  But I get it, it's a different world today.  Nowadays you need to get some time in the woods, and get comfortable out there, before you add in land nav, and NV.
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This absolutely bears repeating!
VP
Link Posted: 7/30/2020 5:30:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Tag for more info.
Link Posted: 7/31/2020 7:20:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: wjoutlaw] [#3]
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Originally Posted By snakeyes711:
Tag for more info.
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Theres really not much more to be said. Bottom line, ditch the expensive gear and get comfortable in the dark. Once you've mastered that, then add on your wizard eyes, you may find out they aren't really all that useful. Just my two cents.

The darkest night I've ever seen and experienced was atJOTC,  Ft Sherman Panama. We did not move at night, period. It was too dangerous. The night there under triple canopy was a concerning, I could not even see my hand in front of my face, period.

The next time I was exposed to darkness like that was at Ft Polk during JRTC. It was like Panama. Even though i rated NODs there, I could not use them since the Opfor was also running night vision, so they were somewhat useless unless we were under open sky, in the woods, might as well not even have them.
Link Posted: 8/21/2020 6:35:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: C-4] [#4]
Full moon is very helpful.  When it’s pitch black, it’s a challenge.
Link Posted: 8/22/2020 8:45:06 AM EDT
[#5]
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Originally Posted By HootieWho:
This thread is a little gold mine of info.
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needs pin, inclusion in a sticky or non archive tag
Link Posted: 8/22/2020 10:44:44 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 8/22/2020 11:26:37 AM EDT
[#7]
Just throwing out the current situation. If you are planning actions or shtf scenarios it won't be in deep forest, it'll be in streets and alleys. Plan accordingly for your expected situations.
Link Posted: 8/22/2020 1:55:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: wjoutlaw] [#8]
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Originally Posted By 2JokersWild:
Just throwing out the current situation. If you are planning actions or shtf scenarios it won't be in deep forest, it'll be in streets and alleys. Plan accordingly for your expected situations.
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Even then, your location heavily depends on the above scenario. Not all of us live in the city and those of us in the country, damn sure ain't going into the city when SHTF.

I live in a suburban area 20 miles away from San Antonio. Not a single one of my plans involve going into the city. They involve getting the hell away from here and into the country where our fallback property is.
Link Posted: 8/22/2020 8:24:05 PM EDT
[#9]
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Originally Posted By 2JokersWild:
Just throwing out the current situation. If you are planning actions or shtf scenarios it won't be in deep forest, it'll be in streets and alleys. Plan accordingly for your expected situations.
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My direct surroundings are deep forest, so if I want to exit my area without use of a road, it will be through old growth forest.  If I wanted to approach many important locations in my geographic region, they are buffered by forest and could be best approached through those points.  Surveillance, guards, and attention are almost always comparatively lacking on the woodland side of important complexes.

It depends on your surroundings, but the forest can be a formidable obstacle, and my goal is move through it as seamlessly as possible, and if necessary, to integrate that skill into my shtf toolbox.
Link Posted: 8/22/2020 8:58:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: billytehbob] [#10]
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Originally Posted By C-4:
Full moon is very helpful.  When it’s pitch black, it’s a challenge.
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It's crazy the difference it makes.. The first night land nav I'd ever done was in SERE, and the first one was done under a waning full moon that was pretty much centered over us in the sky. It was a little challenging prior to dark-adapting, but afterwards, I was pretty shocked with what little difficulty I had navigating walking around. We'd only bust out the red lens when we got to big creeks to cross and to check our map.

The last night nav of the course was with practically 0% illum as the moon was near-new, and was only rising around 3am. It sucked, but helped us being it was the evasion phase. I think I would have lost it if I had done that course during the spring or summer, but ,thankfully, all of the thick brush and face-height spiders were gone being it was midwinter. On the other hand, it was in the mid-teens, so my team and I got super close when it came time to hold down


Moving around unaided in unimproved terrain is something that anyone, especially those getting into the NVG game, needs to expose themselves to. It's really easy to become completely overwhelmed if your goggles or batteries fail, and now you've got no idea what the fucks going on because you can't see shit. Goggles are definitely an exceptional tool to have, but they shouldn't be a crutch.
Link Posted: 8/22/2020 11:01:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: wjoutlaw] [#11]
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Originally Posted By billytehbob:



It's crazy the difference it makes.. The first night land nav I'd ever done was in SERE, and the first one was done under a waning full moon that was pretty much centered over us in the sky. It was a little challenging prior to dark-adapting, but afterwards, I was pretty shocked with what little difficulty I had navigating walking around. We'd only bust out the red lens when we got to big creeks to cross and to check our map.

The last night nav of the course was with practically 0% illum as the moon was near-new, and was only rising around 3am. It sucked, but helped us being it was the evasion phase. I think I would have lost it if I had done that course during the spring or summer, but ,thankfully, all of the thick brush and face-height spiders were gone being it was midwinter. On the other hand, it was in the mid-teens, so my team and I got super close when it came time to hold down


Moving around unaided in unimproved terrain is something that anyone, especially those getting into the NVG game, needs to expose themselves to. It's really easy to become completely overwhelmed if your goggles or batteries fail, and now you've got no idea what the fucks going on because you can't see shit. Goggles are definitely an exceptional tool to have, but they shouldn't be a crutch.
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Originally Posted By billytehbob:
Originally Posted By C-4:
Full moon is very helpful.  When it’s pitch black, it’s a challenge.



It's crazy the difference it makes.. The first night land nav I'd ever done was in SERE, and the first one was done under a waning full moon that was pretty much centered over us in the sky. It was a little challenging prior to dark-adapting, but afterwards, I was pretty shocked with what little difficulty I had navigating walking around. We'd only bust out the red lens when we got to big creeks to cross and to check our map.

The last night nav of the course was with practically 0% illum as the moon was near-new, and was only rising around 3am. It sucked, but helped us being it was the evasion phase. I think I would have lost it if I had done that course during the spring or summer, but ,thankfully, all of the thick brush and face-height spiders were gone being it was midwinter. On the other hand, it was in the mid-teens, so my team and I got super close when it came time to hold down


Moving around unaided in unimproved terrain is something that anyone, especially those getting into the NVG game, needs to expose themselves to. It's really easy to become completely overwhelmed if your goggles or batteries fail, and now you've got no idea what the fucks going on because you can't see shit. Goggles are definitely an exceptional tool to have, but they shouldn't be a crutch.

Well stated. I said it earlier,  once you're eyes become night adapted, you will be suprised at how well you can see in the dark.

Little tricks like scanning and viewing objects with your peripheral vision helps tremendously. Your peripheral vision has more light sensitive rods/cones (can't remember which at this time)and is better suited for night.

My platoon sergeant was an old Vietnam Vet that taught us that trick and other useful tricks. I was amazed at how effective it actually is.

I usually look down and scan side to side while using my peripheral vision to see. If I see something of interest, I'll look at it quickly with my center vision and try to see it before it disappears. If that makes any sense. If it warrants further investigation, then break out the night vision.

Night vision is a frickin awesome thing to have if you're fully comfortable moving at night without them but you cannot rely on them to the extent that you're useless without them. I have really great dual tube systems for me and the wife, yet I'm more comfortable without NODs. It has to be really dark before I need them. If you can believe it.
Link Posted: 8/23/2020 10:43:22 AM EDT
[#12]
Yea, I'm sure avid hunters/outdoorsmen know the deal too - but .mil combat arms MOS' know the deal fort sure - naked eyes at night can surprise you. Benning, Dahlonega, Rudder, Dugway, Chaffee, Polk, Sherman, Vieques Island, etc... all done with no NODs. I think having a hand-held Thermal, to scan with, then moving un-aided, would be most efficient. Terrain dependent of course - A Central American Jungle is different than a U.S. Forest (tall trees, but no undergrowth) even with the same light level. I can't imagine NODs are much help in the middle of a 12ft high Corn Field during a 'New Moon' . Tool for the tool box - not everything is a Nail.
Link Posted: 8/24/2020 10:40:20 AM EDT
[#13]
Common sense is breakin' out all over this thread, but then again, it ain't so common any more.  

I just got a Breach and gotta say, yeah just pouched up and scanning on security halts, then going nakid or enhanced eyeball when moving; pretty good stuff.  What I used to do with a -14.  

Looking at getting a bridge to dual them up.  With the options of flipping one or both up, yeah might be a decent deal.

To the OP, yeah if you have a big "national forest" or whatever nearby, then it would behoove you to learn how to move through it.  If not hang out there, from time to time.  The key, IMHO, is being able to move smoothly through either urban or woodland terrain.  It gives you a T,T,P that you can (almost) bet most others will not have.
Link Posted: 8/24/2020 11:24:25 AM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 9/23/2020 7:05:49 PM EDT
[#15]
This thread needs to brought to the front page and pinned.
Link Posted: 9/26/2020 5:08:56 AM EDT
[#16]
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Originally Posted By wjoutlaw:
This thread needs to brought to the front page and pinned.
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Link Posted: 9/26/2020 6:40:31 AM EDT
[#17]
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Originally Posted By eracer:

Gotcha.  Interesting thought about the blue light.  I thought red because human eyes are less sensitive to red in dark conditions.  I'll read the thread you referenced.  Thanks!
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My understanding is that blue is better for medics to find blood on patient or for tracking blood trails.  Supposed to make it stand out more. I have no practical hands on experience with it though.
Link Posted: 9/26/2020 8:44:25 AM EDT
[#18]
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Originally Posted By BigReb:
My understanding is that blue is better for medics to find blood on patient or for tracking blood trails.  Supposed to make it stand out more. I have no practical hands on experience with it though.
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A bit incidental, but I have found that some animals seem to spook less from the blue light than from a white light.  When I check on our chickens at night, I use a blue light and they are not nearly as upset by my intrusion.
Link Posted: 9/26/2020 9:19:44 AM EDT
[#19]
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Originally Posted By BigReb:


My understanding is that blue is better for medics to find blood on patient or for tracking blood trails.  Supposed to make it stand out more. I have no practical hands on experience with it though.
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Originally Posted By BigReb:
Originally Posted By eracer:

Gotcha.  Interesting thought about the blue light.  I thought red because human eyes are less sensitive to red in dark conditions.  I'll read the thread you referenced.  Thanks!


My understanding is that blue is better for medics to find blood on patient or for tracking blood trails.  Supposed to make it stand out more. I have no practical hands on experience with it though.


That is true. I still use a blue filter on my light at work on patients that are hard sticks.
Link Posted: 9/27/2020 10:25:01 AM EDT
[#20]
As pertains to the landnav portion of our program here, I recently found the new Suunto MC-3G.  Guys this is a really cool deal because you rarely find a good orienteering compass with a meters/klicks distance scale on it.  They are usually in yards/miles.  But if you are using 1K grid squares, you need a separate protractor to read distances.  Now the MC-2G had it, but it was a lensetic, which is neither here nor there, but for a true orienteering compass that lets you do this on the fly, the MC-3G is the shit.  

I have found for night land nav, the lensetic (feature) is all but useless, but the orienteering compass really shines.  Instead of a long lensetic laid flat, you have a more compact package which does the same thing.  I do miss the tritium from the GI, but maybe one of these days.  You simply "re-charge" the luminous one.  

The Suuntos are my favorite becasue I like their bezel better.  It is more tactile and better illuminated for night work.  

I just picked up a Suunto wrist compass as well, and yeah, you just have to do the math to use it properly.  Or, you could leave your main compass uncompensated, to keep headings consistent.  This is probably best if using multiple compasses like this.    

Also got some newer pace beads, that are rubber, not plastic.  They don't crack and fall off, and they stay put mo better.
Link Posted: 9/27/2020 2:00:37 PM EDT
[#21]
I got the mc-2g mirror compass and it has been great so far.  I would love to see someone come out with a wrist compass that has the declination adjustment, otherwise I think you're right that it would be best to have both compasses set to 0.  
I have found the PVS-14 compass to be a little finicky and it takes longer to 'settle' on an azimuth than I would like, but it is easy to read at night.
Link Posted: 9/27/2020 10:02:50 PM EDT
[#22]
Dudes dropping some knowledge bombs here.  

My experience: lots of falling down, lots of branches to the face.  Lots of mother fucking the world.

Go slow and life isn’t so bad.  Go fast and see above.
Link Posted: 9/28/2020 12:20:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TUAEITS] [#23]
That M-3 looks dope I still like having the mirror just as a redundancy to a signal mirror and to apply camo, I just want someone to make a Baseplate/Orienteering compass that has cutouts on the grid portion so I can plot points easily with it. That would be tits. Lil tidbit on the wrist compasses (I love them) Stick some lumetape underneath the bezel and tape it down. Helps reading at night a lot, I just keep it kind of high on my forearm and throw my sleeve over it to cover it.
Edit: Not sure if I mentioned it previously but all this lume shit likes to die pretty quick. Instead of whipping out your whitelight to charge it up again. You can just get a button sized UV light and use that. Puts out a lot less of a light signature if that's a concern for anyone here.
Link Posted: 9/28/2020 1:26:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GroundhogOZ] [#24]
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Link Posted: 9/28/2020 9:12:42 AM EDT
[#25]
Ha there you go.  Yeah goodly tips all around.  True you can shit-can the signal mirror if you have a good lensetic, and yeah cutouts would be the shit.

I have implemented your lum tape and light tips.  Also your nav board.        

Very good point about reading a map vs just compass nav.  Contouring the terrain; now there's a lost art.  I always found this extremely difficult in the woodlands I trained in.  But I guess with GPS supplement, not to mention alti, it is doable.  I have to make myself use the GPS, while it is viable, to back-check my navs.

The reason I say that, just made some custom kit for Swedish forces, who related this story.  They were doing a jump exercise, using GPS to nav to DZ.  They ended up way off and wondered WTF.  Turns out the Russians were deliberately spoofing the signals.  After that, they said there wasn't a good orienteering compass to be found in those parts for weeks!  So, yeah.

On the -14 compass, I've found that to be a bit fiddly myself.  Feel a bit like a bobble head with it.  Like you're holding the compass with your teeth.

On another related note, just watched a vid where this guy shared this tip.  He took a 5.56 case and punched a hole in his cover with it.  Said it made the perfect re-focus ring.  I used a 1/4" punch for mine but might try the 5.56 one just for shits n giggles. We've covered this before in other threads, but this stuff gets lost.
Link Posted: 10/4/2020 6:41:58 AM EDT
[#26]
^^^ Suunto used to make a fantastic prism compass - they still make a look through which is not nearly as good.  :)
Link Posted: 10/4/2020 8:59:07 AM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 10/4/2020 11:23:18 AM EDT
[#28]
Ha yeah back in the day, we thought taking a branch in the eye wuz just part of the deal.  Nowadays, I try and wear eye pro whenever I can.  Sometimes down here it's just too hot and humid, but whenever I can, the safety glasses are on.  

I remember a night assault with Lowdown 3 where we were making our way up this hill and working up a sweat.  This was a live fire ex with NV.  Couldn't keep glasses clear for shit.  Or for lack of good "Cat Shit".  Finally had to just take them off and let them clear up.  Waited until will lined up for final assault, then put back on.  So yeah sometimes the environment gets a vote, too.  But as a general rule, I think it's a good idea to use them whenever you can.

I use Uvex "Genesis" series which are cheap and plentiful; easy to swap out lenses and keep clear.  Comes in many tints and even ballstic-rated.  Fit under comms too.
Link Posted: 10/4/2020 8:54:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JohnDough] [#29]
I use a 14, and the un aided eye really is nice on nights with even a little moon. Bino users will say just look under them, but when I tried that I found my eyes were adjusted to the tv screens in front if my face, so it didnt work so hot. It's amazing what the unaided eye can see even in minimal light. All nods I've used were meh for depth. You're staring at a flat piece of glass. Shadows are how you determine depth with nods, for me anyways, so I can judge distance better with better tubes, regardless of device, tube quality matters more for me.
Link Posted: 10/5/2020 10:20:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SIASL] [#30]
One thing I’ve noticed, speaking only for myself in particular, if I use my PVS with my dominant eye, I cannot get it adjusted suitably. There is no amount of focusing I can do that allows using both eyes. When I use it with my non-dominant eye I can get it dialed in enough where I’m able to comfortably use both eyes. I swapped it over last night and the difference was just that noticeable. Maybe it allowed for a bit of correction, I don’t know. Looking around last night and swapping over to my non-dominant eye I was able to merge with what my dominant eye was seeing whereas before it just wasn’t going to happen.
Link Posted: 10/5/2020 12:15:58 PM EDT
[#31]
This continues to be a great thread. I'm sitting quietly, winnowing information overload on acquiring NV.  But the land-nav aspect, something I've relished since a kid cadet wandering around (then) Camp Irwin, adds a new twist.  Now some decades and an Army career gone it's still a blast, and fun to teach grand-kids. Often folks don't give a second thought to things like underbrush in daylight, but they should often start their learning by understanding "how is that stuff going to hang me up?, how is it going to behave when I come in contact with it?"  Slow & methodical is best for me; and I've always found that well-adjusted night eyes can do marvelous things simply augmented by a red light (this FOGs choice, but will give blue a try).  Also, since they don't break the bank, I think a Suunto M-9 wrist compass goes on my Christmas list. Thanks for mention of that.

Regardless of the reason, whether exercise for the hell of it or in the presence of a threat, deliberate movement that gives you time to listen, smell and yes, see, is of great benefit.  If I get too cocky in my own triple-canopy deciduous jungle moving to a deer-stand before sunup for example, I try to remember that there were guys back in the day doing this where screwing up meant an NVA battalion down on them, and their rate of progress through the area might be 500 meters a day. That's what soundless movement can entail.

So again, appreciate the comments and LL's.  Trying to get myself to the point - for all pieces - when I can pickup a phone and call someplace like TNVC and nail requirements in one fell swoop, soup to nutz, objective lens to ballast pack on the helmet.
Link Posted: 10/5/2020 3:26:53 PM EDT
[#32]
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Originally Posted By SIASL:
One thing I’ve noticed, speaking only for myself in particular, if I use my PVS with my dominant eye, I cannot get it adjusted suitably. There is no amount of focusing I can do that allows using both eyes. When I use it with my non-dominant eye I can get it dialed in enough where I’m able to comfortably use both eyes. I swapped it over last night and the difference was just that noticeable. Maybe it allowed for a bit of correction, I don’t know. Looking around last night and swapping over to my non-dominant eye I was able to merge with what my dominant eye was seeing whereas before it just wasn’t going to happen.
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Did you try lowering the gain? Whenever I ran a monocular, I had to turn the gain way, way down in order to get both eyes to work together.
Link Posted: 10/5/2020 3:40:25 PM EDT
[#33]
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Originally Posted By will-1:


Did you try lowering the gain? Whenever I ran a monocular, I had to turn the gain way, way down in order to get both eyes to work together.
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Originally Posted By will-1:
Originally Posted By SIASL:
One thing I’ve noticed, speaking only for myself in particular, if I use my PVS with my dominant eye, I cannot get it adjusted suitably. There is no amount of focusing I can do that allows using both eyes. When I use it with my non-dominant eye I can get it dialed in enough where I’m able to comfortably use both eyes. I swapped it over last night and the difference was just that noticeable. Maybe it allowed for a bit of correction, I don’t know. Looking around last night and swapping over to my non-dominant eye I was able to merge with what my dominant eye was seeing whereas before it just wasn’t going to happen.


Did you try lowering the gain? Whenever I ran a monocular, I had to turn the gain way, way down in order to get both eyes to work together.

I did. Just couldn’t get the PVS to to focus as well when used with my dominant eye. Swapped it back over to non-dominant and dialed in no problem.
Link Posted: 10/5/2020 4:02:36 PM EDT
[#34]
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Originally Posted By SIASL:

I did. Just couldn’t get the PVS to to focus as well when used with my dominant eye. Swapped it back over to non-dominant and dialed in no problem.
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10-4. Our eyes can be a royal PITA.

I have astigmatism in one eye but rarely wear my glasses unless I'm shooting or driving at night.

I've been having issues recently getting my binos or duals focused and an eye exam revealed that it's time for a new script and I'll have to start wearing them.

Sucks getting old
Link Posted: 10/5/2020 4:32:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Huh, yeah getting old ain't for pussies.  

I know dominant eye is the school solution here, but, I am also the same way, that is, with -14 on non-dominant eye, the dominant eye will blend to one image much easier.  So for long patrols, this is my preferred set up.  

With that being said, if I had a need for passive NV, I would switch up to dominant side.

On patrolling, yeah many things to consider.  I would say that as armed civilians, whose mission is to interdict any armed hostiles as far from home and hearth as possible, a very slow, stealthy movement technique might be just SOP.  When you are lucky to have a 4-man patrol, you do not have the combat power to be looking for the shit and assulting through everything you bump in the night.  If they are headed directly at your home, and you have to engage, it would probably be of the hit and run variety.  Slow them up enough to raise the alarm and get the homestead ready to repel borders.  Or whatever your SOP might be.  

This kind of movement is definitely a lost art.  Add in I2 and thermal and you have your work cut out for ya.
Link Posted: 10/7/2020 4:15:11 PM EDT
[#36]
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Originally Posted By 18B30:
You don’t use NVG’s for land navigation.  Compass, map, attack points, hand rails, terrain features and high ground are the keys to success.  GPS is nice, but don’t get dependent on it.




18Z50......




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Link Posted: 10/8/2020 4:46:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Diz] [#37]
I got no hi-speed MOS,
but I gotta Suunto compass,
I take a azi-a-muth,
so mamma
don't take my NVD's away.

(with apologies to Paul Simon)
Link Posted: 10/9/2020 3:42:40 AM EDT
[#38]
Now you have me singing that song.....Grrrrrrrrr
Link Posted: 10/29/2020 1:27:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Diz] [#39]
Here's something that seems so obvious but I've been fooled a few times, so I thought I'd share.  

This time of year, lots of acorns fall from trees.  Duh you say, but, you also may have noticed that if they hit just right it sounds all the world like someone just snapping a twig.  

I wuz out the other night and again noticed this phenomena.  If someone is trucking around out there, especially without I2 or thermal, and hears this thing, they're gonna think someone is stalking them, cuz as you move, the sounds move with you.  As long as you don't run out of oak trees.  

So a couple of examples.  If you have oak trees all around you, it's sorta a "force multiplier", in that it sounds like someone is tromping around out there, like a ring of security patrols.  

Also consider how the random sounds might mask your own movement.

There other considerations but then we get into the deliberate ambush issue, which was brought up in the sight height thread.

So use your imagination.
Link Posted: 10/29/2020 8:43:03 PM EDT
[#40]
The sound issue is huge, but aside from the change to nighttime creatures(tree frogs and crickets here) and a general reduction in human noise it's something you can practice and learn during the day too.
Link Posted: 10/29/2020 10:07:58 PM EDT
[#41]
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Originally Posted By SIASL:

I did. Just couldn’t get the PVS to to focus as well when used with my dominant eye. Swapped it back over to non-dominant and dialed in no problem.
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Make sure you are adjusting the diopter and not just the objective lens focus when switching eyes.

@SIASL
Link Posted: 6/18/2021 11:47:52 AM EDT
[#42]
Gonna have to bump this up. Good information here.
Link Posted: 6/18/2021 11:52:56 AM EDT
[#43]
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Originally Posted By 18B30:
You don’t use NVG’s for land navigation.  Compass, map, attack points, hand rails, terrain features and high ground are the keys to success.  GPS is nice, but don’t get dependent on it.




18Z50......




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Forgot always know you pace count
Link Posted: 6/18/2021 12:19:46 PM EDT
[#44]
Interesting to see other people's take on this. We pretty much only have heavy woods to play around in unless we're looking across a lake and it rains 6 months out of the year. I think that we got lucky getting our gear in the middle of suck season and learning to use it at its worst. I have to admit I was a bit disappointed and it wasn't till spring with clear skies and a full moon that we got to see how amazing this gear can be.
Link Posted: 6/19/2021 10:14:33 AM EDT
[#45]
If anyone would like to do some training with night time movement with NVGs, I am trying to plan a camping trip end of July begging of August this year in the Central Texas area near Smithville. I can offer up some good training.
Link Posted: 6/19/2021 10:52:03 AM EDT
[#46]
Link Posted: 6/19/2021 11:36:41 AM EDT
[#47]
Depending on vegetation and what's under foot, moving at night can be retarded if other humans are out to get you. If we're talking jungle, like Vietnam or Panama - it can kill you outright - we had a KIA at 3/75 in Panama due to environment at night. If you're talking Ft. Benning type environments, the noise will draw attention like flies to sh*t. We used to destroy Ranger School patrols at night with two man teams. This was before universal NOD issue and especially COTI's however. I'd still not move at night unless it was quiet due to sand, pine needles or rain/water - if I could help it - but METT-T right
Link Posted: 6/26/2021 9:36:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GroundhogOZ] [#48]
deleted
Link Posted: 6/28/2021 10:56:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BuckeyeRifleman] [#49]
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Originally Posted By sea2summit:



Judging by Ohio I'd say it's his one weekend a month hobby.
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One weekend a month or not, based on his screen name I wouldn’t discount what he is saying.

Based off my experience under NVGs in the woods at night, which is more than most but less than some (and I’m sure less than the poster you are referencing), I’d say he’s dead nuts on.
Link Posted: 11/1/2021 8:51:34 AM EDT
[#50]
Bumping this up for good info.
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Tacked Navigating Deep Woods (Page 3 of 4)
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