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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/21/2002 3:14:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2002 3:19:45 PM EDT
Any idea what generation of Glocks NYPD are carrying? I have a G19 2nd gen and the only time I have had problems was due to limp wristing with a fast draw and shoot.



Since June, they have repaired 3,200 weapons in a procedure that takes about an hour...The process will continue until all 24,000 Glocks are fixed



Talk about some major OT!
Link Posted: 8/21/2002 3:36:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
The flaw, in which the shell casing fails to eject...



Are we talking about a Type II malfunction here? Since when does a failure to eject result in a jam, leaving the gun as useless as a paperweight?


Originally Posted By Aimless:
This problem affects the Glock Model 19S - the gun carried by about 60% of the department's 39,000 officers.



What the hell is a Glock 19S? Is this different from a G19?


Originally Posted By Aimless:
Sources also said that some of the Glocks have a different problem - locking. When a gun locks, a user can get it functioning again by removing the clip holding the ammunition and manually moving the slide to eject the stuck shell casing.



This sounds like a failure to extract, or Type III malfunction.

Does anyone know what the deal is with these? I guess if you are in doubt about your own Glock, call their facility in Georgia.
Link Posted: 8/21/2002 3:37:25 PM EDT
You know, I've put an assload of rounds thru my G19 (3rd gen) and have not had a SINGLE jam that was gun related. I've put FMJ, JHP, CCI blazer, reloads, even those weird "WinClean" BEB rounds. I've never had a failure to feed, fire, or eject. Only time I had a problem was when I was using a cheap Promag magazine. The last round didn't get high enough to feed.

I've probably put more rounds thru my Glock than most NYPD officers have. I shoot the hell out of it. Maybe they need some more trigger time?

-Gloftoe
Link Posted: 8/21/2002 3:53:03 PM EDT
I wonder if the officers are limp wristing their Glocks...
Link Posted: 8/21/2002 4:27:04 PM EDT


"Our studies have shown this to be a rare occurrence," said police spokesman Chief Michael Collins. "In the worst-case scenario...we estimated that this has happened only once in 450,000 times when fired."



ummmm....so they replace all their Glock 19's because of a failure one time in 450,000? Sounds like limp wristing BS to me......

toast
Link Posted: 8/21/2002 4:35:47 PM EDT
So we'll go no more a Glocking
so late into the night,
nor empty fifteen rounders
at whatever's in our sight.

For our plastic pistols fail to feed
and extract when but they wish,
what a bummer in a firefight
to end up a gutted fish.

So we'll go no more a Glocking
so late into the night,
next time we'll bring a Colt perhaps,
at least its parts work right.


Link Posted: 8/21/2002 4:44:58 PM EDT
I had a failure to feed with my G19 when I first bought it. I had it polished and throated, since then it can eat anything, even empty shells without a problem.

It sounds to me like NYPD officers my need a little more instruction and range time.
They did not mention it but I wonder if the officers that experienced the malfunctions where female or homosexual.

I just know I’m gonna get flamed for that one.

THISISME
Link Posted: 8/21/2002 4:56:39 PM EDT
Well I should be at Rodmans Neck in a couple of weeks to go through the Academy's firearms training. I chose the Glock as my Duty Weapon, so I'll let you know which ones they are issuing to the new recruits and whether or not it malfunctions. FYI my choices were the Glocl 19, the Sig 226 or the Smith and Wesson. The Smith was just to big and bulky for my tastes. The Sig has a really high sight compared to the Glock which I've already shot and was pretty much used to. (ergo my choice)

I'll keep you guys posted.
Link Posted: 8/21/2002 4:57:38 PM EDT

In the worst-case scenario...we estimated that this has happened only once in 450,000 times when fired.

One out of 450,000, and they're complaining? I don't think I've seen a Kel-Tec that was better than one jam per mag average. Those Glocks are 100,000 times better than that. How would you even measure something that only happens that rarely? You'd need a tremendous sample size.z
Link Posted: 8/21/2002 5:04:31 PM EDT
Glocks melt

<­BR>

after 450,000 rounds
Link Posted: 8/21/2002 5:05:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2002 5:22:19 PM EDT
The only trouble I had with my Glock 19 was when I was running my reloads through it. I hadn't sized them properly and the round would get stuck in the chamber prior to firing and the slide would not go into battery. At that point, it was just a paperweight. It seems the chamber on the Glock 19 is not as forgiving as other 9mm's. My sig would still shoot that ammo. I solved the problem by not using my reloads any longer. I just stick with factory ammo and I haven't had a problem since.
Link Posted: 8/21/2002 5:34:02 PM EDT
I posted here about my G19 3g jamming 40 percent of the time on the last round out of my feinstien (10 round CA legal for those of you in Rio Linda) mag. It seems that the follower is the problem and can be replaced.

Can someone explain why they didn't use the 17? It seems you'd want the full deal in a duty gun. Especially to get a little more velocity from the 9mm.

Link Posted: 8/21/2002 6:28:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By martinmayhem:
The only trouble I had with my Glock 19 was when I was running my reloads through it. I hadn't sized them properly and the round would get stuck in the chamber prior to firing and the slide would not go into battery.



I've had the exact same thing happen with my reloads. I think it's because I'm using a 147 grain lead bullet (yeah, I know, I know) and the base of it sometimes causes the sides of the case to bulge just enough to keep it from fully entering the chamber.

I've never seen it happen with lighter bullets.
Link Posted: 8/21/2002 6:43:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2002 7:24:13 PM EDT
Here's some more information on this that's floating about the web. Can't claim to the veracity of this information, but here it is as an FYI.

communities.prodigy.net/sportsrec/glock/gz-phase3.html

I'd be interested to know what those with some experience with Glocks has to say about this.

I know very little about Dean Speir except that he sent me an email (out of the blue -- he wasn't even a part of the discussion, just a lurker) challenging my interpretation of a word use by an American Handgun author. It was during a discussion on Pistolsmith.com. He suggested that the author used the word "nimrod" to refer to a "great hunter." The author wrote something to the effect of (and this is a paraphrase) "most people build 1911's tight because that's something that most nimrods can check at the gun shop ... this [featured] smith 'builds them right, not tight.'" After I cited him numerous example of the slang meaning of "nimrod" he sheepishly backed off.

Needless to say my first impression was not a good one.

Here's the main Glock page at The Gun Zone.

communities.prodigy.net/sportsrec/glock/gz-glock-dir.html
Link Posted: 8/21/2002 7:41:23 PM EDT
Read your Bible, during the time the tower of babble Nimrod was a leader and a good enough hunter that the word is used to describe who he was.

THISISME
Link Posted: 8/21/2002 7:56:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2002 8:00:58 PM EDT by Corey]
The word nimrod was being used to slight the "average" gun owner who thought that tight slides meant a better overall 1911. The author was Cameron Hopkins (which should probably tell you something) and it was the article on the Larry Vickers 1911. Slang use of "nimrod" is simpleton, dipshit, stoopid -- which seems to fit Hopkins' context more than "great hunter." EDIT: and it wasn't even capitolized as a proper name would be.

At any rate, I don't want to get into that here. Email me if you want to discuss it, but I don't want to do it here. In fact I don't want to do it at all. I know the use of the term that you're suggesting. Read my post again and see that I covered that.

Back to the original topic....

EDIT noted in text.
Link Posted: 8/21/2002 8:03:27 PM EDT
I have 2 second gen. G19's that I have shot probably more than any other gun I own & have had ZERO problems with either one

FWIW
Link Posted: 8/21/2002 11:49:19 PM EDT
I really think its as simple as they got a grant and need to spend the money..

Link Posted: 8/21/2002 11:55:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2002 2:25:40 AM EDT by Wave]
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 12:37:53 AM EDT
Question

Where are the Glock 17 malifunctions. And the Model 26's

The design of the areas that Glock thinks are the problem are identical on all three models.

If one is bad than the other two models must be also and if not they are looking in the wrong place.

This is of some concern as my Dad carries a Gen 3 G17 with his CCW.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 12:51:29 AM EDT
They should be thankful that they're using Glocks and only have a 1/450,000 failure rate. I wonder what the failure rate is on other service weapons?

I love all my Glocks, and if I didn't know any better I'd think I could put a dog turd in the chamber and get it to fire.

Link Posted: 8/22/2002 4:59:55 AM EDT
man, too many holes in this story...

"Our studies have shown this to be a rare occurrence," said police spokesman Chief Michael Collins. "In the worst-case scenario...we estimated that this has happened only once in 450,000 times when fired."

However, during an actual gun battle in Brooklyn, two Emergency Service Unit officers reported that their Glocks failed. Collins said that after an investigation of the October 2000 incident, ballistics experts said whatever problem those guns had, it was not the jamming malfunction that is the subject of the current recall.

To correct the problem, the Austrian-based Glock company has sent engineers to the NYPD's firing range at Rodmans Neck in the Bronx. Since June, they have repaired 3,200 weapons in a procedure that takes about an hour. Immediately afterward, officers tested the refitted weapons at the range, where the results have been excellent, Collins said. The process will continue until all 24,000 Glocks are fixed, he said.



So, 1 in 450000 rounds results in a failure to eject.

Emergency Services gun battle jams had nothing to do with this ecejtion problem.

Results excellent after the service. How in the hell do you prove that if you only get one failure in 450000 rounds anyway? Especially after only 3200 guns were "repaired"? How many rounds did each officer put through his Glock after service to be able to state the the upgrade was beneficial?
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 6:51:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:Ken,

That's what Lee Factory Crimp Dies are for.

-Troy



I was under the impression that all a factory crimp die did was to crimp the mouth of the case to prevent bullet setback. I don't think that would do a lot of good in my situation, where the bullet base bulges the case as soon as I seat the bullet. I guess I could buy another sizing die, remove the decapping pin, and put it in my 4th station as a last step.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 7:22:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vicg1:
So, 1 in 450000 rounds results in a failure to eject.



I think I'd probably replace my ejector and extractor every 250,000 rounds or so.

Link Posted: 8/22/2002 7:28:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Maddog50:

Originally Posted By vicg1:
So, 1 in 450000 rounds results in a failure to eject.



I think I'd probably replace my ejector and extractor every 250,000 rounds or so.




yeah, whether they needed to be replaced or not...
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 7:34:20 AM EDT
Some quick math 450,000/500 rds per day=900 days, that is almost 3 years. This is not even a thing, I don,t know of anything that could stand this much use and not need a fix/or schduled maint.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 7:36:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bountyhunter:
Some quick math 450,000/500 rds per day=900 days, that is almost 3 years. This is not even a thing, I don,t know of anything that could stand this much use and not need a fix/or schduled maint.



...they don't mean out of one gun, that's combined for all the Glocks on the force...
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 7:36:13 AM EDT
I got my Glock 19 back in 1992. I shoot it alot, not as much as I would like and have never had a problem. I also have a 26 with no problem. I was going to switch to a S&W, I would have to be requaled, buy a new gun, holster ect... until I shot the S&W. I do not like that long trigger pull. I am not a gunsmith so I can not talk with authority but I know that many NYPD do not shoot well and do not practice. The problem with the limp wrist story is that it does not add up. Many of the people in the Department who had the problem were good shooters, not the usual collection of non shooters. The senior non shooters stayed with their revolvers and the new non shooters were fired if they could not shoot. I do not know the answer except that I am going to skip having anyone cut up my guns. MIKE.
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 7:38:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mike103:
I got my Glock 19 back in 1992. I shoot it alot, not as much as I would like and have never had a problem. I also have a 26 with no problem. I was going to switch to a S&W, I would have to be requaled, buy a new gun, holster ect... until I shot the S&W. I do not like that long trigger pull. I am not a gunsmith so I can not talk with authority but I know that many NYPD do not shoot well and do not practice. The problem with the limp wrist story is that it does not add up. Many of the people in the Department who had the problem were good shooters, not the usual collection of non shooters. The senior non shooters stayed with their revolvers and the new non shooters were fired if they could not shoot. I do not know the answer except that I am going to skip having anyone cut up my guns. MIKE.



cut up your guns? what does this modification consist of?
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 7:42:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Corey:
Here's some more information on this that's floating about the web. Can't claim to the veracity of this information, but here it is as an FYI.

communities.prodigy.net/sportsrec/glock/gz-phase3.html

I'd be interested to know what those with some experience with Glocks has to say about this.

I know very little about Dean Speir except that he sent me an email (out of the blue -- he wasn't even a part of the discussion, just a lurker) challenging my interpretation of a word use by an American Handgun author. It was during a discussion on Pistolsmith.com. He suggested that the author used the word "nimrod" to refer to a "great hunter." The author wrote something to the effect of (and this is a paraphrase) "most people build 1911's tight because that's something that most nimrods can check at the gun shop ... this [featured] smith 'builds them right, not tight.'" After I cited him numerous example of the slang meaning of "nimrod" he sheepishly backed off.

Needless to say my first impression was not a good one.

Here's the main Glock page at The Gun Zone.

communities.prodigy.net/sportsrec/glock/gz-glock-dir.html



Speir is a fucking asshole. I used to run a Glock listserv from '97 to '99 that I started basically because I was tired of listening to him spout his self-important bullshit on the existing Glock list. He tried to join once but I nuked him the instant I saw his name.

Just my .02.

QS
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 7:48:48 AM EDT
Well look at the bright side, at least the problem is with the FIRST and SECOND generation of "Perfection" and not the THIRD generation of "Perfection".
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 12:04:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By marvl:
next time we'll bring a Colt perhaps,
at least its parts work right.





As long as that Colt ISN'T the Reed Knight designed 9mm monstrosity (The All American???)

Happiness is an all-steel Gub'ment model
Link Posted: 8/22/2002 3:59:19 PM EDT
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