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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 10/20/2007 12:10:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/21/2007 9:48:05 PM EST by Victor]
Link Posted: 10/20/2007 12:15:03 PM EST



WOW.



If I ever become a millionaire, this is first on the list.


Lets see some pics through the sight!!



Link Posted: 10/20/2007 1:00:18 PM EST
About the only place I would feel that scope would justify the TAX dollars is at the southern border. But wow, nice scope.
Link Posted: 10/20/2007 1:03:58 PM EST
Tax for evil pics!
Link Posted: 10/20/2007 1:30:02 PM EST
WOW!

Just WOW!
Link Posted: 10/21/2007 10:00:35 AM EST
Yum, this would be perfect for my HK21 (you said it's a crew served weapon sight )
Link Posted: 10/21/2007 10:03:36 AM EST
Where's our pics Victor?
Link Posted: 10/21/2007 12:57:14 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/21/2007 9:43:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/21/2007 9:44:40 PM EST by Victor]
Link Posted: 10/21/2007 9:49:59 PM EST
Damn. I would almost start working another job for one of these
Link Posted: 10/21/2007 10:47:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/21/2007 10:47:53 PM EST by MisterWilson]

Originally Posted By kap_x:
Damn. I would almost start working another job for a year for one of these


That's about a year's salary for me...

So Vic, I'm sure it's apples & oranges, but how does that $8000 KAC NV compare?
Link Posted: 10/21/2007 11:23:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mr_Happyface:
If I ever become a millionaire, this is first on the list.


+1

Link Posted: 10/22/2007 7:23:29 AM EST
So the CS6000 is a hybrid unit [reference through tube pics 5 & 6]?

The resolution is awesome! It is also interesting to see how the rocks on the range hold their heat versus the surrounding ground; was it relatively early in the evening?

Did you remove the device from the weapon system when "shooting" the live target, or does he just have profound trust in you?
Link Posted: 10/22/2007 4:02:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2007 4:11:17 PM EST by Victor]
Link Posted: 10/22/2007 6:14:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/29/2007 7:34:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By Victor:

Originally Posted By murderman:
So the CS6000 is a hybrid unit [reference through tube pics 5 & 6]?
Actually this system is not a hybrid, what you seeing is simply different colored LCD screen selections. It DOES help with the contrast as you can see.

The resolution is awesome! It is also interesting to see how the rocks on the range hold their heat versus the surrounding ground; was it relatively early in the evening?
It was around 9:00pm and yes the rocks were still heated as you can see.

Did you remove the device from the weapon system when "shooting" the live target, or does he just have profound trust in you? Even though he does have a profound trust in me I thought a tripod would be a better anchor!


Edited to add, I also wanted many folks to see a VERY good comparison between the Raptor 6X and the D760. Not that much of a difference as folks can see....A VERY BIG WINK HERE! More to come on this subject matter again as it's been awhile since I re-visited this review of the Raptor vs. D-760. At this time I was not allowed to take pics at this "special" area so I hope these latest pics and others I took will begin to show how close tube wise and optics the D-760 is to the Raptor. www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=18&t=194640



I want one!!!
Link Posted: 10/29/2007 7:39:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2007 7:46:16 PM EST by freerider04]

Originally Posted By Cyclic:
About the only place I would feel that scope would justify the TAX dollars is at the southern border. But wow, nice scope.


TWS's work great down there

It's a whole different world when unassisted you can't see 5ft in front of you face. Thank the taxpayers for thermals and NV

Victor, how does this compare to the AN/PAS-13B? That's the only thing I've used that could compare. This looks a lot more user friendly.
Link Posted: 10/31/2007 3:31:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2007 3:33:26 AM EST by XCQTR]
Played with TWS II by BAE a while back. Cool little unit.....but to me, it's just another uncooled FLIR. Maybe I don't get too excited because I play with the best FLIR and see these things all day long (sorry for being so unenthused). I have also played with the DRS unit. Subjectively, can't really tell which is better.

You would need a blackbody/collimator to "do it right". The eval should be done over 24 hours period to show the effects and see how the FLIR performs at thermal crossovers.

AN/PAS-13 is quite an interesting design. It's close to a hybrid cooled/uncooled.
Link Posted: 10/31/2007 6:44:10 AM EST
What is the smallest cooled unit (weapons sight) available?

IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
Link Posted: 11/1/2007 7:06:04 AM EST
For the US, I don't think there is one. There may have been one, but no longer in the inventory, but doubtful. I remember seeing one from Europe.

The cooled FLIR is not typically used in the handheld applications because of the weight, size, and power consumption of the cooler.

PAS-13 uses somewhat of a cooled sensor that is cooled by stacked ThermoElectric Cooler (TEC aka Peltier juntion device). By stacking, the TEC can get down to the cooled FLIR operating temperature.

In a typical cooled FLIR, you would have a Dewar cooler, which will gets the focalplane (FPA) real cold (think double digit Kelvin).

In uncooled, there may be a TEC to "temperature stabilize" the FPA. The newer ones don't even use TEC anymore.

The cooled system has a much better picture and performance (more sensitive, need less integration time, more uniform response).

Now, the bad news for most people is that they would never see a cooled system in real life. Most of the cooled platforms are in airplanes and tanks.
Link Posted: 11/1/2007 7:18:13 AM EST
I lied....not sure if this thing is actually in the service or not. Look at its size compare to Insight, BAE, and DRS....it's much bigger.

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2002infantry/looby.pdf

Link Posted: 11/1/2007 6:23:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2007 6:28:44 PM EST by Victor]
Link Posted: 11/1/2007 7:15:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2007 8:48:30 PM EST by IPSC_GUY]
So no one has fielded a cooled, man portable weapons sight huh? Interesting.

I have messed with the FLIR on the CH 53E and the AH-1W so I am familiar with just how capable they can be. It's kind of one of those "WOW" moments when you can see things like someone's palm prints on the hanger wall after they have touched the wall and walked away.

Alas weapons sights of that quality are more than a few years away?

IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA
Link Posted: 11/2/2007 3:19:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2007 3:21:03 AM EST by XCQTR]
Probably one of the most important factor is the reliability. Cooled system has that much more components....the cooler itself is a mechanical unit (sometime called Stirling engine). So the MTBF is much lower than the uncooled....in order of 2 magnitude.

The uncooled world is catching up, but we're still learning. Performance-wise, it has its own flaws.....integration time etc.

What will be interesting is what we can do with Third Gen FPA (2 wavelengths). A lot of work is being done there....specifically between LWIR and MWIR. Each wavelength (FLIR image) will look the same with an untrained eye, but each does have its own merits and application.

Those will be your Planck's Blackbody radiation and atmospheric that will determine your selection of wavelength.

The reality is that the uncooled FLIR world should have the performance that will match crew served weapon effective range in the next decade or so.
Link Posted: 12/3/2007 12:41:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/30/2007 5:58:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/11/2008 2:30:08 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/14/2008 8:18:40 AM EST
Victor, when you do your test, can you also test the theory about the metallic survival blanket being able to shield the subject from view? I think the shiny part goes toward the person to reflect body heat back toward him/her.

Link Posted: 1/15/2008 7:17:56 AM EST
Also another question if you are testing. Being that it is Thermal sensitive optics. Is there any mirage or interference from high Barrel heat or Suppressor heat after some rounds fired off ? Since the thermal sight-plane is on top, close and looking directly over them ?
.
Link Posted: 1/16/2008 10:27:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 3:13:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2008 3:20:12 AM EST by XCQTR]

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
Victor, when you do your test, can you also test the theory about the metallic survival blanket being able to shield the subject from view? I think the shiny part goes toward the person to reflect body heat back toward him/her.



I can tell you that it's not going to work. You're confusing light with heat.

Light works off reflection.

Heat works off emission, absorption, and radiation.


You see during the day because lights reflects off objects. For I^2, the starlight falls upon the object, reflects, and you amplify it with I^2.

Heat is a diffferent story. The sun radiates during the day, the material absorbs the heat. So at night, now that material is now emitting stored heat energy. Another way is the object is producing (radiating) heat, such as human.

Remeber that FLIR works off temperature difference. Your body is hotter than the rest of the scene. If you put a glass of cold water in your hand, eventually, the glass will reach the temperature of your body temperature. In case of a blanket, it's the same way. You can argue all you want about how it's an insulator, but eventually, it'll get to your body temp.

Metallic objects conduct heat even faster. What needs to happen is to have an ative cooling system, but with current FLIR's....you'll see it still.

You'll also find that certain object acts like a mirror when looking thru FLIR. For an example, windows. Tactically, that's a big downfall for FLIR....not being to see thru windows.

To really test the FLIR on how good it is subjetively, you need to see it for at least 24 hours and observe it through diurnal cycle.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 4:07:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2008 4:09:15 AM EST by Sinister]
Rod Pinkston is the former NCOIC of the US Army Marksmanship Unit's Shotgun Team, and the link below is to his spin-off business as a hog-hunting guide and feral hog control contractor in Georgia.

While the PAS-13 and the new SOF CQC Thermal are nice (expensive) pieces of gear the Canadian commercial thermals are quite effective and affordable (relatively speaking).

www.jagerpro.com/
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 6:57:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 3:10:36 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/11/2008 3:51:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By Victor:
Thought I would bump this up as I add a few more insights.


tac it
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 12:22:10 PM EST
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