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Posted: 2/5/2007 9:12:51 AM EST
Is there such a beast ?

Can someone explain to me why a flashbang is a DD, I can't see how the USC definition of DD fits a flashbang
Link Posted: 2/5/2007 9:30:30 AM EST
I didnt know a flashbang was a DD. Seems kinda ridiculous
Link Posted: 2/5/2007 9:33:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/5/2007 9:39:59 AM EST by PBIR]
You are not professional enough. Try a ladyfinger wrapped in flashpaper. Lame law.

Link Posted: 2/5/2007 9:39:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By PBIR:
You are not professional enough. Try a ladyfinger wrapped in flashpaper.


That would be a good answer in GD


def-tec and ALS disagree with you
Link Posted: 2/5/2007 9:40:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By vrwc0915:

Originally Posted By PBIR:
You are not professional enough. Try a ladyfinger wrapped in flashpaper.


That would be a good answer in GD


def-tec and ALS disagree with you


Unfortunately it is the truth as far as the esteemed minds in DC see it. There really is no better answer than that.
Link Posted: 2/5/2007 9:42:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By PBIR:

Originally Posted By vrwc0915:

Originally Posted By PBIR:
You are not professional enough. Try a ladyfinger wrapped in flashpaper.


That would be a good answer in GD


def-tec and ALS disagree with you


Unfortunately it is the truth as far as the esteemed minds in DC see it. There really is no better answer than that.

I agree on DC
I was poking fun at the professional part having been certified on both :)


Link Posted: 2/5/2007 9:44:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/5/2007 9:47:58 AM EST by tony_k]
Link Posted: 2/5/2007 9:49:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/5/2007 9:51:01 AM EST by vrwc0915]

Originally Posted By tony_k:

Originally Posted By vrwc0915:
Can someone explain to me why a flashbang is a DD, I can't see how the USC definition of DD fits a flashbang

It is classed as a DD because of the explosive charge that makes the flash go bang.

If you make one without the explosive charge, it is not a DD -- but it will neither flash nor bang.


I unserstand but to spit hairs it is not a missle nor a anti personal device
Link Posted: 2/5/2007 9:53:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/5/2007 9:55:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By tony_k:

Originally Posted By vrwc0915:

Originally Posted By tony_k:

Originally Posted By vrwc0915:
Can someone explain to me why a flashbang is a DD, I can't see how the USC definition of DD fits a flashbang

It is classed as a DD because of the explosive charge that makes the flash go bang.

If you make one without the explosive charge, it is not a DD -- but it will neither flash nor bang.


I unserstand but to spit hairs it is not a missle nor a anti personal device

You may attempt to split that hair, but BATFE and the U.S. Department of Justice will beg to differ with you.


Not me, I was just hoping for an expanded why, I know they are no no's and don't really have any use for one

Another one of those because DOJ says so rules
Link Posted: 2/5/2007 10:02:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/5/2007 10:03:09 AM EST by thedoctors308]

Originally Posted By tony_k:

Originally Posted By vrwc0915:

Originally Posted By tony_k:

Originally Posted By vrwc0915:
Can someone explain to me why a flashbang is a DD, I can't see how the USC definition of DD fits a flashbang

It is classed as a DD because of the explosive charge that makes the flash go bang.

If you make one without the explosive charge, it is not a DD -- but it will neither flash nor bang.


I unserstand but to spit hairs it is not a missle nor a anti personal device

You may attempt to split that hair, but BATFE and the U.S. Department of Justice will beg to differ with you.


I could have sworn that ATF agents testifed before Congress at the Waco hearings, that flashbangs were completly harmless.
Regardless, they are DDs under the law.
Link Posted: 2/10/2007 6:41:17 PM EST

Ok, but if they are classified as DD, then why do cops get to use them, I mean they are soo destructive.. Police are supposed to protect & serve , not be destructive..



Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By tony_k:

Originally Posted By vrwc0915:

Originally Posted By tony_k:

Originally Posted By vrwc0915:
Can someone explain to me why a flashbang is a DD, I can't see how the USC definition of DD fits a flashbang

It is classed as a DD because of the explosive charge that makes the flash go bang.

If you make one without the explosive charge, it is not a DD -- but it will neither flash nor bang.


I unserstand but to spit hairs it is not a missle nor a anti personal device

You may attempt to split that hair, but BATFE and the U.S. Department of Justice will beg to differ with you.


I could have sworn that ATF agents testifed before Congress at the Waco hearings, that flashbangs were completly harmless.
Regardless, they are DDs under the law.
Link Posted: 2/10/2007 6:49:04 PM EST
Yes, there is such a beast. There was a write-up in SWAT magazine within the past 2 -3 months. It was a CO2 simulator. I'm sorry I don't remember the name. I'll look for it when I get off work.

It was pretty pricey, but reusable with the exception of the hard rubber diaphragms. IIRC it was $60 for like 20 reloads. The unit itself was like $120.
Link Posted: 2/13/2007 5:50:10 PM EST
ALS makes a trainer FB. It is the same fuze as a regular FB, but with a very small amount of flash powder. Does a small flash and sounds about like a 22 LR going off. Each "reload" is about $25.

And for comparison's sake, 1/4 oz is equivalent to 109 grains. 109 grains of BP is fairly serious, as is 109 grains of flash powder. Take into account the priming charge, and you could probably run 90 grains of flash powder and not run afoul of the DD threshold of 1/4 oz.... But I'm no lawyer, and I sure as shit didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night....
Link Posted: 2/24/2007 6:28:30 PM EST
quote]I could have sworn that ATF agents testifed before Congress at the Waco hearings, that flashbangs were completly harmless.
Regardless, they are DDs under the law.
IIRC, it was Chucky Schumer who was telling everyone that flashbangs were harmless, and the ATF guys were telling him they were not.
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