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Posted: 2/5/2016 4:18:37 PM EDT
Ok, I searched back a few pages and didn't find anything on this topic.  I had saw something on this a little while ago and had intended to go back and read more on it but couldn't find it.  As far as a customer purchasing an NFA item with a trust and filling out the 4473, are FFL's supposed to actually run the check on a transaction like this?  The info that I had seen was making a point that because the trust itself cannot pick up the said item, the person who is picking up the item must have a background check performed.

I have no idea if this was pre-41P talks, speculation or what.  I have not really found any clear information on this yet but luckily I have only been doing individual transfers.  I have the my first Trust transfer coming in soon and was wondering what the rules are as far as check, or no check.  Is the background check not required but a good practice, or should I just check the box saying it involved NFA firearms and carry on as usual?


Thanks!
Link Posted: 2/5/2016 6:36:23 PM EDT
I run NICS, some FFL's don't, I've even gotten conflicting info from the IOI's about it.
Link Posted: 2/5/2016 6:44:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Unclecooter:
Ok, I searched back a few pages and didn't find anything on this topic.  I had saw something on this a little while ago and had intended to go back and read more on it but couldn't find it.  As far as a customer purchasing an NFA item with a trust and filling out the 4473, are FFL's supposed to actually run the check on a transaction like this?  The info that I had seen was making a point that because the trust itself cannot pick up the said item, the person who is picking up the item must have a background check performed.
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You are not required to. I do not do it. I check box 22 and that is it. That (dare I say it) "loophole" is the problem ATF-41F is designed to solve.
Link Posted: 2/5/2016 7:52:35 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:


You are not required to. I do not do it. I check box 22 and that is it. That (dare I say it) "loophole" is the problem ATF-41F is designed to solve.
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By Unclecooter:
Ok, I searched back a few pages and didn't find anything on this topic.  I had saw something on this a little while ago and had intended to go back and read more on it but couldn't find it.  As far as a customer purchasing an NFA item with a trust and filling out the 4473, are FFL's supposed to actually run the check on a transaction like this?  The info that I had seen was making a point that because the trust itself cannot pick up the said item, the person who is picking up the item must have a background check performed.


You are not required to. I do not do it. I check box 22 and that is it. That (dare I say it) "loophole" is the problem ATF-41F is designed to solve.


Interesting. My FFL tries to stick it to the man any way he can but he runs the check on me when I pick up my NFA items. It will be a moot question when 41F kicks in in June.
Link Posted: 2/5/2016 8:00:29 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:


You are not required to. I do not do it. I check box 22 and that is it. That (dare I say it) "loophole" is the problem ATF-41F is designed to solve.
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By Unclecooter:
Ok, I searched back a few pages and didn't find anything on this topic.  I had saw something on this a little while ago and had intended to go back and read more on it but couldn't find it.  As far as a customer purchasing an NFA item with a trust and filling out the 4473, are FFL's supposed to actually run the check on a transaction like this?  The info that I had seen was making a point that because the trust itself cannot pick up the said item, the person who is picking up the item must have a background check performed.


You are not required to. I do not do it. I check box 22 and that is it. That (dare I say it) "loophole" is the problem ATF-41F is designed to solve.



This is the info I had, but other sources were saying otherwise.  I'm guessing its more of an opinion more than anything else.  Thanks again.  Carry on.
Link Posted: 2/5/2016 8:53:11 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Gotterdammerung:
Interesting. My FFL tries to stick it to the man any way he can but he runs the check on me when I pick up my NFA items. It will be a moot question when 41F kicks in in June.
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I don't stick it to the man.

I just obey the law and follow the instructions on the form.
Link Posted: 2/13/2016 12:14:15 AM EDT
I run the check, I'm not going to be the one to hand over a firearm/suppressor to someone that can't possess it.
Link Posted: 2/15/2016 8:40:37 PM EDT
In the 2015 NFA Handbook update ATF added this
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9.12.1 NFA Transfers to other than individuals. Subsequent to the approval of an application requesting to transfer an NFA firearm to, or on behalf of, a partnership, company, association, trust, estate, or corporation, the authorized person picking up the firearm on behalf of, a partnership, company, association, trust, estate, or corporation from the FFL must complete the Form 4473 with his/her personal information and undergo a NICS check. See also, question P60 in the ATF FAQs.
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YMMV.  We run NICS on Trusts now.

MAHA
Link Posted: 2/15/2016 9:06:14 PM EDT
We follow US Code and the instructions on the 4473.
Link Posted: 2/16/2016 11:35:54 PM EDT
I request the first page of the trust that shows them on it, just to make sure I'm giving the can to the correct person, and then I do the background check. There is no sticking it to the man. I am releasing an item to an individual and that individual will pass a background check before they leave with something that the ATF defines as a "firearm".
Link Posted: 2/16/2016 11:36:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Mahamotorworks:
In the 2015 NFA Handbook update ATF added this


YMMV.  We run NICS on Trusts now.

MAHA
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Originally Posted By Mahamotorworks:
In the 2015 NFA Handbook update ATF added this

9.12.1 NFA Transfers to other than individuals. Subsequent to the approval of an application requesting to transfer an NFA firearm to, or on behalf of, a partnership, company, association, trust, estate, or corporation, the authorized person picking up the firearm on behalf of, a partnership, company, association, trust, estate, or corporation from the FFL must complete the Form 4473 with his/her personal information and undergo a NICS check. See also, question P60 in the ATF FAQs.


YMMV.  We run NICS on Trusts now.

MAHA

Despite what the actual Federal law says?



Originally Posted By AlabamaPaul:
We follow US Code and the instructions on the 4473.

This.
Link Posted: 2/16/2016 11:38:04 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By evlblkwpnz:
I request the first page of the trust that shows them on it, just to make sure I'm giving the can to the correct person, and then I do the background check. There is no sticking it to the man. I am releasing an item to an individual and that individual will pass a background check before they leave with something that the ATF defines as a "firearm".
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Do you ask for a stool sample as well?

You know.........just to be sure.
Link Posted: 2/23/2016 7:29:53 PM EDT
We simply run it as a standard 4473, attach a copy of the Form 4, along with a signed form stating they are picking the item on behalf of the trust.
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