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Posted: 1/5/2015 11:34:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2015 11:35:59 AM EDT by USC45]
Currently going through a break up with a particularly vindictive woman.

I am trying to imagine what she would do if things go south.

I am assuming that worst-case scenario she could get the swat team to come kick my door in looking for drugs or something (there arent any) and possibly seize all my weapons shoot my dog etc. etc.

I am wondering how legal it is for me to put all of my firearms in a storage unit that I rent.

There are form one and suppressors involved.

What does the hive say?
Link Posted: 1/5/2015 11:54:23 AM EDT
Legally as long as you stay in the same state you are not required to inform the ATF of the movement of the items. A locked storage facility that only you have access to would be meeting the 'secure storage' requirements.

On a practical side I find storage lockers to be too unsecured to store firearms. If you did put them in one, bring them in in moving boxes, etc; anything that says not a gun.
Link Posted: 1/5/2015 1:10:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2015 1:29:05 PM EDT by USC45]
Thanks again.

I am trying to be proactive about it. I have received messages from members who have gone through similar instances.

I just always assume they will seize your shit and fight you in court about it later.

Plus I live in Atlanta. The newspaper would love to scream "WEAPONS CACHE!!!" I'd make the front page.
Link Posted: 1/5/2015 2:17:54 PM EDT
If you don't have any drugs or anything else illegal you have nothing to worry about. I would rather have the items close at hand than in storage. They're much more secure in my presence than at any storage location.

You wouldn't be the first person wrongly accused, if that's what she does. In most states/municipalities criminal charges can be filed against anyone making a false police report, insist on it should she do so.

Does she have a spare set of keys to your car? Consider changing the locks so evidence can't be easily planted. Buy a voice activated recorder and leave it on when you're not at home. It will record noises and activity that happens inside your home while you're at work or play.

Security cameras are relatively cheap and can be user installed. Most security cameras alert your smart phone when triggered and record the event storing it in the cloud. Planting contraband in an attempt to frame somebody is felony offense. Buy a better safe.
Link Posted: 1/5/2015 2:18:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2015 2:18:38 PM EDT by Toddrick]
I don't see how actually having the guns with you in a safe makes it any more dangerous than having them in storage. As long as they are not in your hands of laying out in the open, then a potential SWATting should go down the same. Open the safe, show them your stamps, tell them you are legit and to fugoff.
Link Posted: 1/5/2015 2:23:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2015 2:29:01 PM EDT by timkel]
Being proactive is smart. Keep your temper. Don't give her any grounds for a "protection order"
Get any valuable personal items out now. Documents, hard drives, jewelry, guns ect. Not all storage units are the same. Some are quite secure. Bank boxes are good but limited in size.
Link Posted: 1/5/2015 2:52:01 PM EDT
Thanks guys.
Link Posted: 1/5/2015 11:50:07 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:
....... A locked storage facility that only you have access to would be meeting the 'secure storage' requirements.....
View Quote

Where exactly in ATF regulations do you find this "secure storage requirement"?
Link Posted: 1/6/2015 12:31:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2015 12:39:34 AM EDT by Tim_McBride]
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom:

Where exactly in ATF regulations do you find this "secure storage requirement"?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:
....... A locked storage facility that only you have access to would be meeting the 'secure storage' requirements.....

Where exactly in ATF regulations do you find this "secure storage requirement"?




The term 'Secure Storage' is found mostly to apply to an FFL/SOT and not an individual in ATF documentation. So yes, if you are looking for an admission that you will not find much written documentation that says an individual has a requirement, you are correct. Hopefully, however, we can agree that you must maintain care, custody and control of your NFA items.

For a specific mention of it in reference to a slightly different issue that does mention an individuals requirements; https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#alternate-storage
Link Posted: 1/6/2015 12:53:27 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:

The term 'Secure Storage' is found mostly to apply to an FFL/SOT and not an individual in ATF documentation.
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Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:
....... A locked storage facility that only you have access to would be meeting the 'secure storage' requirements.....

Where exactly in ATF regulations do you find this "secure storage requirement"?

The term 'Secure Storage' is found mostly to apply to an FFL/SOT and not an individual in ATF documentation.

The "secure storage requirement" has NOTHING to do with the safety and security of the firearms an FFL/SOT has in inventory.
It's the requirement to have locks or other safe storage devices (such as a lockable case) available when selling or transferring a handgun.
There is no federal law or ATF regulation that requires as much as a lock on your front door.




So yes, if you are looking for an admission that you will not find much written documentation that says an individual has a requirement, you are correct. Hopefully, however, we can agree that you must maintain care, custody and control of your NFA items.

Then post THAT, not some bullshit about the safe storage requirement that doesn't apply to the OP's situation.............because THERE IS NO SUCH REQUIREMENT for NFA items.





For a specific mention of it in reference to a slightly different issue that does mention an individuals requirements; https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#alternate-storage

Nothing at all to do with the OP's question.
Link Posted: 1/6/2015 1:21:13 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom:

Then post THAT, not some bullshit about the safe storage requirement that doesn't apply to the OP's situation.............because THERE IS NO SUCH REQUIREMENT for NFA items.

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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:

So yes, if you are looking for an admission that you will not find much written documentation that says an individual has a requirement, you are correct. Hopefully, however, we can agree that you must maintain care, custody and control of your NFA items.

Then post THAT, not some bullshit about the safe storage requirement that doesn't apply to the OP's situation.............because THERE IS NO SUCH REQUIREMENT for NFA items.




You are 100% correct, my usage of a requirement terminology was wrong. I should have took my time and worded things better.
Link Posted: 1/6/2015 9:50:16 AM EDT
I'm interested to hear some opinions and experiences people have in regards to handling a "tactical" protective order. As best I can tell, it takes absolutely nothing for a female to get a protective order against a male. If you're the subject of a protective order, you're pretty much stripped of your 2A rights until it's dropped. I think you're required to surrender your guns, even if they're stored in a storage unit. I can see a vindictive female that knows you're a gun enthusiast using that as a tool to screw with you.
Link Posted: 1/6/2015 11:23:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2015 11:23:44 AM EDT by DogtownTom]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:



You are 100% correct, my usage of a requirement terminology was wrong. I should have took my time and worded things better.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:

So yes, if you are looking for an admission that you will not find much written documentation that says an individual has a requirement, you are correct. Hopefully, however, we can agree that you must maintain care, custody and control of your NFA items.

Then post THAT, not some bullshit about the safe storage requirement that doesn't apply to the OP's situation.............because THERE IS NO SUCH REQUIREMENT for NFA items.




You are 100% correct, my usage of a requirement terminology was wrong. I should have took my time and worded things better.

That never happens to me, I'm perfkt.
Link Posted: 1/6/2015 12:02:49 PM EDT
Buy a cheap safe, put in friends house, store guns there with only you knowing the combo
Link Posted: 1/6/2015 2:49:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2015 2:49:44 PM EDT by USC45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Wipeout:
Buy a cheap safe, put in friends house, store guns there with only you knowing the combo
View Quote



That would work if not for the NFA items. Those are the issue. They are on paper.
Link Posted: 1/6/2015 4:49:55 PM EDT
I would personally not store firearms in a public storage locker. Back in the 80s my father moved all of his guns from the house and into a storage locker during a divorce and every single firearm was stolen when the locker was cleaned out. I would guess he lost over two dozen firearms.

He had fun over the years getting calls from police departments all over the country telling him his gun turned up in a robbery or drug house raid and deciding if it was worth the effort and expense to try and get them back as many of the police departments fought turning them back over to him or would require him to appear in person.

As mentioned earlier if you have a trusted friend you will let you store them at his place in a locked safe, that is the route I would go. Depending upon how much stuff you have you could always rent a safety deposit box and store the receivers there as well.

There is no prohibition on storing the guns at somebody else's home or a safety deposit box as long as they don't have access. (i.e. only in a safe you have the combo to)

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html

Q: If an individual is changing his or her State of residence and the individual’s application to transport the NFA firearm cannot be approved because of a prohibition in the new State, what options does a lawful possessor have?

NFA firearms may be left in a safe deposit box in his or her former State of residence. Also, the firearm could be left or stored in the former State of residence at the house of a friend or relative in a locked room or container to which only the registered owner has a key. The friend or relative should be supplied with a copy of the registration forms and a letter from the owner authorizing storage of the firearm at that location.

The firearms may also be transferred under the procedures referred to in “What are the required transfer procedures for an individual who is not qualified as a manufacturer, importer, or dealer of NFA firearms?” or abandoned to ATF.

Good luck and I hope everything turns out OK.
Link Posted: 1/6/2015 5:50:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By USC45:



That would work if not for the NFA items. Those are the issue. They are on paper.
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Originally Posted By USC45:
Originally Posted By Wipeout:
Buy a cheap safe, put in friends house, store guns there with only you knowing the combo



That would work if not for the NFA items. Those are the issue. They are on paper.


That will work even with the NFA stuff. Just keep the combo to the safe to yourself and you're fine. Is this a wife or girlfriend?

If it is a wife and you're worried about divorce and having her take half your stuff, sell your non NFA items to a buddy for $1. You wont be able to do that with the NFA stuff without paying the tax.
Link Posted: 1/6/2015 5:54:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2015 5:55:14 PM EDT by BigWaylon]
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Originally Posted By Wipeout:
You wont be able to do that with the NFA stuff without paying the tax.
View Quote

Not much you could do with a suppressor...

But with an AR you can sell the two halves (to different people) and the ATF doesn't have to be involved.
Link Posted: 1/7/2015 11:29:52 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Wipeout:


That will work even with the NFA stuff. Just keep the combo to the safe to yourself and you're fine. Is this a wife or girlfriend?

If it is a wife and you're worried about divorce and having her take half your stuff, sell your non NFA items to a buddy for $1. You wont be able to do that with the NFA stuff without paying the tax.
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Originally Posted By Wipeout:
Originally Posted By USC45:
Originally Posted By Wipeout:
Buy a cheap safe, put in friends house, store guns there with only you knowing the combo



That would work if not for the NFA items. Those are the issue. They are on paper.


That will work even with the NFA stuff. Just keep the combo to the safe to yourself and you're fine. Is this a wife or girlfriend?

If it is a wife and you're worried about divorce and having her take half your stuff, sell your non NFA items to a buddy for $1. You wont be able to do that with the NFA stuff without paying the tax.


Not a divorce attorney but just personal experience. Guns can be considered personal property and are typically not subject to equal division. Especially if it's a NFA item and it's individually (not trust or LLC) owned. If you have a massive collection (hundreds of thousands of dollars) - she may be able to make a claim or at least get more property - furniture, china, silverware, etc... My ex tried to throw some of the transferrables and suppressors as community property since they were worth a lot of $$$. My attorney showed the court the ATF possession requirements and asked if he needed to contact the ATF to report her admitting she had committed a felony since "she carried them all the time...."

The only gun she got in the divorce was the pistol I bought her.
Link Posted: 1/7/2015 12:36:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By timkel:
Being proactive is smart. Keep your temper. Don't give her any grounds for a "protection order" Get any valuable personal items out now. Documents, hard drives, jewelry, guns ect. Not all storage units are the same. Some are quite secure. Bank boxes are good but limited in size.
View Quote


THIS.

and if she does get a protective order on you, DO NOT let the officer serving it into your house without a warrant. They will typically send an officer or two to your house, you'll get a knock on the door, and they hand you a copy of the order, usually with instructions on how to appeal it.

When I was in the military, I was going through a divorce and my vindictive ex got what's referred to in Florida as a "temporary injunction" filed against me. Luckily a temporary injunction requires a hearing before a judge to go into full affect, so I kept my bearing, and showed up in uniform with another marine before the judge and she dropped it. Had it escalated, I would have been lawyered up.

Bottom line is this:

Family Law will fuck you and ruin your life.

Stay as far away from her as you can, don't contact her or respond to any contact, and DO NOT put yourself in a situation where you are alone with her. I'd put your NFA stuff with someone you trust, in a locked container.

If anyone other than an ATF agent asks to see it, demand to see a warrant and DO NOT consent to a search.


Link Posted: 1/8/2015 1:00:44 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By koz1:
Not a divorce attorney but just personal experience. Guns can be considered personal property and are typically not subject to equal division. Especially if it's a NFA item and it's individually (not trust or LLC) owned. If you have a massive collection (hundreds of thousands of dollars) - she may be able to make a claim or at least get more property - furniture, china, silverware, etc... My ex tried to throw some of the transferrables and suppressors as community property since they were worth a lot of $$$. My attorney showed the court the ATF possession requirements and asked if he needed to contact the ATF to report her admitting she had committed a felony since "she carried them all the time...."

The only gun she got in the divorce was the pistol I bought her.
View Quote
I found this hilarious - thanks for sharing!

-Millbarge
Link Posted: 1/8/2015 1:09:58 PM EDT
My friend stores his m16 in pieces in a safe deposit box at his bank
Link Posted: 1/8/2015 2:18:18 PM EDT
Storage units are not a secure way of storing anything except stuff you don't care about. Like exercise equipment, old furniture (not antique), dirty clothes, and Christmas decorations which otherwise clutter your attic or garage.
The costs of renting a unit add up, so you might as well buy the cheap safe and ask a trusted friend to keep it for you. ATF/NFA branch only cares if you are the only one with the key or combo.
Link Posted: 1/16/2015 11:54:34 AM EDT
Thanks guys.
Link Posted: 3/9/2015 1:46:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2015 4:54:46 PM EDT by USC45]
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