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Posted: 8/13/2013 4:06:18 PM EDT
Having been reloading i decided to go to my local range  and chronograph  my  home loads while there i met some friends who invited me along to there 1000 yard shoot  the only ammo i had

left were a few 5.56 head stamped ggg with the nato stamp   62 grain fmj these were running at 3047 fps lowest velocity 3020 fps ES  27  mean average velocity 3033 fps  standard deviation

9  so far so good of course my friends were shooting .308 w  and .303 my gun is a ar15 20 inch 1 in 8 twist barrel having adjusted my sight i then fired first shot missed low 2nd shot hit but failed to penetrate the paper target  3rd shot hit the target and again failed to pierce the paper target  had radio call back to say rounds had stared to ricochet  off of target board  stopped shooting

when i got the ar15 i wasn't planing on shooting 1000 yards with it but it got me thinking are there competitions for 1000 yards if so what type of ammo would be used.  


     



Link Posted: 8/13/2013 4:52:23 PM EDT
[#1]
1000 yards you are wasting your time most likely.  Get a 6.5 grendel or 300 win mag perhaps.  The time and effort to use 5.56 at 1000 yards is not worth it.
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 4:54:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Not true.

77 gr SMKs work fine.  We shoot those with ARs to 1000 all the time... but more often in a 20 Rem 700 bolt gun.  A 62 grain isn't going to handle transonic very well.  For some reason SMKs do alright.

80 gr SMKs are even better... but need to be loaded so long, you're stuck single feeding them.  I keep one single feed follower mag in my stuff.

Link Posted: 8/13/2013 5:01:41 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
Not true.

77 gr SMKs work fine.  We shoot those with ARs to 1000 all the time... but more often in a 20 Rem 700 bolt gun.  A 62 grain isn't going to handle transonic very well.  For some reason SMKs do alright.

80 gr SMKs are even better... but need to be loaded so long, you're stuck single feeding them.  I keep one single feed follower mag in my stuff.

View Quote


thanks for reply will try  both 77 80  smk  ok.
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 5:52:13 PM EDT
[#4]
Check Loose Rounds.com, They recently had an article on the 5.56 AR at 1000 yards with milspec ammo.
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 7:20:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Rough calculations shows your 62 grain FMJ starting at 3025 fps is only going at approximately 1000 fps plus or minus a few feet at 1000 yards. The ballistic coefficient of the 62 fmj is around .304. With a 75 gr. Amax starting at 2700 fps it will be going about 1177 fps at 1000 yards and an 80 gr. Amax starting at only 2600 fps will be going about 1187 fps at 1000. 75 and 80 Amax's have BC's at .435 and .453  Just shows a heavier streamlined low drag bullet carries its speed better. Like I said, rough calculations.. Not a long distance target shooter myself but it's most important to have a caliber and load that will stay supersonic at the 1000 yard target. Lot's of bullets won't stay on course when it slows and drops below supersonic speed. quote: "At 75 degrees F and at sea level pressure 50% humidity the speed of sound is about 1100 FPS".
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 8:11:14 PM EDT
[#6]
At 800 yds and no wind, 77 SMKs are almost boring shooting 12"x16" steel silhouettes.  Add just a little wind, and it's a whole new game.



Last weekend, the boy and I were hitting that same target at 800 with 55 gr. Nosler BTs in .243 Win.




Fun!!!
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 8:20:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Some little puke shot me a few years ago at beyond 1,000 yards with a .22LR.

The .223/5.56 is one of the two cartriges allowed in Palma.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 12:18:05 AM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 12:44:47 AM EDT
[#9]
Interesting. I've seen people say it will still penetrate a plastic pop bottle at even 1,000 yards, but it was bouncing off target paper for you? The enrgey from drop alone should do that.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 5:09:48 AM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
Interesting. I've seen people say it will still penetrate a plastic pop bottle at even 1,000 yards, but it was bouncing off target paper for you? The enrgey from drop alone should do that.
View Quote


Would had to have skipped off the ground... unless they use a really hard target backer like plywood or something. .  Shoot.. a 400 fps pellet will penetrate card board and it's a fraction of the weight.

Link Posted: 8/14/2013 8:45:35 AM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 8/15/2013 4:05:48 AM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:
Yeah, there's no way it was bouncing off a paper target going anywhere near 1000fps.  Not even a cardboard backer.
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hi Eric  only guessing backing board is hard board, 1000 yard target area is off limits only range creaw allowed  having been informed  by radio that my bullets were causing  hazard due to

ricochet and not piercing the target i had to stop shooting next time i will have reloaded ammo 77 or 80 grain  bullet heads mean  while why don't you try  shooting 1000 yards with N A T O

62 grain   (Lake City)  and  see for self  how or if it penetrates paper targets.
Link Posted: 8/15/2013 4:17:22 AM EDT
[#13]
Is this a 'because I can' thing, or is there some practical value to a mosquito bite at 1000 yards?
Link Posted: 8/15/2013 4:31:19 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



hi Eric  only guessing backing board is hard board, 1000 yard target area is off limits only range creaw allowed  having been informed  by radio that my bullets were causing  hazard due to

ricochet and not piercing the target i had to stop shooting next time i will have reloaded ammo 77 or 80 grain  bullet heads mean  while why don't you try  shooting 1000 yards with N A T O

62 grain   (Lake City)  and  see for self  how or if it penetrates paper targets.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Yeah, there's no way it was bouncing off a paper target going anywhere near 1000fps.  Not even a cardboard backer.



hi Eric  only guessing backing board is hard board, 1000 yard target area is off limits only range creaw allowed  having been informed  by radio that my bullets were causing  hazard due to

ricochet and not piercing the target i had to stop shooting next time i will have reloaded ammo 77 or 80 grain  bullet heads mean  while why don't you try  shooting 1000 yards with N A T O

62 grain   (Lake City)  and  see for self  how or if it penetrates paper targets.



Dollars to donuts you were skipping them off the ground.
Link Posted: 8/15/2013 4:49:56 AM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
1000 yards you are wasting your time most likely.  Get a 6.5 grendel or 300 win mag perhaps.  The time and effort to use 5.56 at 1000 yards is not worth it.
View Quote



Somebody should tell those guys at Camp Perry to stop wasting their time.....


Porter Match
Link Posted: 8/15/2013 5:33:54 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
Somebody should tell those guys at Camp Perry to stop wasting their time.....
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Those clowns don't know anything.  Only a 300 win mag can go 1000 yards.
Link Posted: 8/15/2013 8:21:31 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:



Somebody should tell those guys at Camp Perry to stop wasting their time.....


Porter Match
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
1000 yards you are wasting your time most likely.  Get a 6.5 grendel or 300 win mag perhaps.  The time and effort to use 5.56 at 1000 yards is not worth it.



Somebody should tell those guys at Camp Perry to stop wasting their time.....


Porter Match


Amazing what a Rifleman can do without a crutch
Link Posted: 8/16/2013 7:34:58 AM EDT
[#18]


Er, ah, isn't that an AR-10 type rifle most likely not chambered for 5.56?
Link Posted: 8/16/2013 10:24:30 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Having been reloading i decided to go to my local range  and chronograph  my  home loads while there i met some friends who invited me along to there 1000 yard shoot  the only ammo i had

left were a few 5.56 head stamped ggg with the nato stamp   62 grain fmj these were running at 3047 fps lowest velocity 3020 fps ES  27  mean average velocity 3033 fps  standard deviation

9  so far so good of course my friends were shooting .308 w  and .303 my gun is a ar15 20 inch 1 in 8 twist barrel having adjusted my sight i then fired first shot missed low 2nd shot hit but failed to penetrate the paper target  3rd shot hit the target and again failed to pierce the paper target  had radio call back to say rounds had stared to ricochet  off of target board  stopped shooting

when i got the ar15 i wasn't planing on shooting 1000 yards with it but it got me thinking are there competitions for 1000 yards if so what type of ammo would be used.  
View Quote


In the early 2000's Sgt Chris Hatcher of the Army Marksmanship unit used 90grn rounds to score a perfect 200 at 1,000 yards (on the regulations NRA 1,000 bull) using a sling supported iron sighted 20in AR*.  This was single loading of course which I believe is the required method anyway (for the 600 line in highpower single loading is required).




*They are accurized; free float, though standard looking, handguards, special barrels, match triggers and sights.  Though all of it must appear just like a Service Rifle.
Link Posted: 8/16/2013 10:52:32 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Rough calculations shows your 62 grain FMJ starting at 3025 fps is only going at approximately 1000 fps plus or minus a few feet at 1000 yards. The ballistic coefficient of the 62 fmj is around .304. With a 75 gr. Amax starting at 2700 fps it will be going about 1177 fps at 1000 yards and an 80 gr. Amax starting at only 2600 fps will be going about 1187 fps at 1000. 75 and 80 Amax's have BC's at .435 and .453  Just shows a heavier streamlined low drag bullet carries its speed better. Like I said, rough calculations.. Not a long distance target shooter myself but it's most important to have a caliber and load that will stay supersonic at the 1000 yard target. Lot's of bullets won't stay on course when it slows and drops below supersonic speed. quote: "At 75 degrees F and at sea level pressure 50% humidity the speed of sound is about 1100 FPS".
View Quote

So technically it should still have no trouble penetrating a human skull, never the less thick target paper.
Link Posted: 8/16/2013 11:29:09 AM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:



Somebody should tell those guys at Camp Perry to stop wasting their time.....


Porter Match
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
1000 yards you are wasting your time most likely.  Get a 6.5 grendel or 300 win mag perhaps.  The time and effort to use 5.56 at 1000 yards is not worth it.



Somebody should tell those guys at Camp Perry to stop wasting their time.....


Porter Match





My post should have been a little more detailed.  All I was trying to do for the guy was to advise him that it would take a great deal of time and effort to get it done at 1000 yards.  I never said it couldn't be done just that it might be a little easier with a different combo.
Link Posted: 8/16/2013 12:56:48 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 8/16/2013 4:35:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/codyporter01.jpg

Er, ah, isn't that an AR-10 type rifle most likely not chambered for 5.56?
View Quote



I don't recall the AR 10 ever being a U.S. SERVICE RIFLE
Link Posted: 8/16/2013 4:38:47 PM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:





My post should have been a little more detailed.  All I was trying to do for the guy was to advise him that it would take a great deal of time and effort to get it done at 1000 yards.  I never said it couldn't be done just that it might be a little easier with a different combo.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1000 yards you are wasting your time most likely.  Get a 6.5 grendel or 300 win mag perhaps.  The time and effort to use 5.56 at 1000 yards is not worth it.



Somebody should tell those guys at Camp Perry to stop wasting their time.....


Porter Match





My post should have been a little more detailed.  All I was trying to do for the guy was to advise him that it would take a great deal of time and effort to get it done at 1000 yards.  I never said it couldn't be done just that it might be a little easier with a different combo.


Didn't come off that way

Yes, might be easier. But he might be a " run what ya brung" kinda guy...
Link Posted: 8/16/2013 5:03:57 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/codyporter01.jpg

Er, ah, isn't that an AR-10 type rifle most likely not chambered for 5.56?
View Quote




it sure looks like a big mag well and the carry handle looks awful long.
Link Posted: 8/16/2013 5:04:56 PM EDT
[#26]
I have been reading a bunch on the topic and if you are shooting 1000 yards in a .223 AR service rifle, you need to shoot the 90 grain berger bullets because the 90 grain have a BC that keeps them supersonic at 1000 yards. 77 and 80 and 80.5 grain bullets are all subsonic at 1000, meaning they go transonic in flight which disturbs flight path. To stabilize a 90 grain, most guys have to run a 1:6.5 or 1:6 twist barrel.
Link Posted: 8/16/2013 6:04:44 PM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 8/16/2013 6:38:55 PM EDT
[#28]
77s go transonic FINE.  We shoot them 1000 every weekend.

We've shot them to 800 yards out of a 12.5 AR with an ACOG.

The only gain from shooting 80 gr is that you shave about a mil off of elevation... but then you're single feeding ammo.
Link Posted: 8/16/2013 6:57:10 PM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:



I don't recall the AR 10 ever being a U.S. SERVICE RIFLE
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/codyporter01.jpg

Er, ah, isn't that an AR-10 type rifle most likely not chambered for 5.56?



I don't recall the AR 10 ever being a U.S. SERVICE RIFLE

It works for the AMU.

There are numerous issued rifles. The m110 is one of them.

With the A2 Service Rifle and 80s, use your 600 yard zero. Drop your front sight three rotations.
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