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Posted: 6/28/2012 10:15:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2012 4:42:59 AM EDT by thegooch]
Gemtech has been contacted so please let's hold off judgement until they have a chance to investigate. The can will be shipped out to them tomorrow.  The silencer is not new and has a couple of thousand rounds through it. This happened on the 2nd round fired at my last range trip, ammo is 158gr Fiocchi subsonic, no damage at all to the gun, I had shot about 100 rounds unsuppressed before, I did not see any casings that were damaged.  Not exactly sure what happened, but it's a pretty unsettling feeling to see you what's left of your silencer 20 yards down the range.  I'll update this thread once I hear back from Gemtech to see what could have possibly caused this.



**edited for clarity




























































 
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 10:17:32 AM EDT
Crazy nice pic's I'll hold off my speculation and wait to hear what the story was.
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 10:37:57 AM EDT
Oh, shit.



It doesn't look like there was a baffle strike or anything to me, just that the metal failed.  
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 10:38:36 AM EDT



Originally Posted By AJE:


Oh, shit.



It doesn't look like there was a baffle strike or anything to me, just that the metal failed.  


No baffle strikes



 
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 11:26:47 AM EDT
Wow, that's just not right.
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 11:44:40 AM EDT
It looks like the tube where the failure occurred is only .030" wall thickness.  

Looking on the Multimount page on the Gemtech website it looks like there is a groove for thread relief at the front of the threads the booster attach to.  That would seem to imply that that is the weakest point of the tube and that feature which resulted in .030" wall thickness was not a very strong geometrical idea.  

I wonder if that was 7075 or 6061.
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 11:46:25 AM EDT
That sucks but I'm sure they'll take care of it. If it were me, I would have probably laughed my ass off when it went flying downrange.
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 12:10:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
That sucks but I'm sure they'll take care of it. If it were me, I would have probably laughed my ass off when it went flying downrange.


I call BS on laughing your ass off. Maybe, just maybe later on down the road, but not right away. I would be PISSED!

OP, yours isnt the first one I have heard this happening too. Not sure how the others played out though. Good luck.
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 12:14:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/28/2012 12:17:16 PM EDT by bigbore]
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 12:19:44 PM EDT
At least it wasn't your tube!!!  

~WTS
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 12:21:49 PM EDT



Originally Posted By bigbore:


158gr out of a pistol? Isn't there a note on the box to only shoot that ammo through carbines/subguns? 147gr ammo and the can would still be in one piece I'd bet.


No



 
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 12:25:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/28/2012 12:26:39 PM EDT by bigbore]
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 12:31:03 PM EDT



Originally Posted By bigbore:



Originally Posted By thegooch:




Originally Posted By bigbore:

158gr out of a pistol? Isn't there a note on the box to only shoot that ammo through carbines/subguns? 147gr ammo and the can would still be in one piece I'd bet.


No

 




There should be. That ammo is not for use in pistols, and is the reason the can is broke.




Thanks for you input, but I'll wait for Gemtech's feedback.





 
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 12:32:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/28/2012 12:34:30 PM EDT by 6gunsal]
Originally Posted By WhatsThatSmell:
At least it wasn't your tube!!!  

~WTS


*snort*

Op, I hope gemtech takes care of you. They seem like a good company from everything I've read.
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 1:37:23 PM EDT
Wow that's nuts.  I'm sure they'll take care of you.  I haven't had any issues with my multimount after extensive use.  Def interested in where this goes.
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 2:09:42 PM EDT
2 rounds?
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 2:16:32 PM EDT



Originally Posted By bigbore:



Originally Posted By thegooch:




Originally Posted By bigbore:

158gr out of a pistol? Isn't there a note on the box to only shoot that ammo through carbines/subguns? 147gr ammo and the can would still be in one piece I'd bet.


No

 




There should be. That ammo is not for use in pistols, and is the reason the can is broke.


And your reasoning behind this is what?



This is the third gemtech can, that I know about, that has done this...this year.





 
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 2:25:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/28/2012 2:28:37 PM EDT by thegooch]





Originally Posted By Backnblack:



2 rounds?



1st round fine, 2nd round....wait that was loud gun felt lighter, ok wtf.


 
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 3:35:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/28/2012 3:35:27 PM EDT by dmtsc]
Originally Posted By Backnblack:
2 rounds?


that can has seen more than 2 rounds through it imho
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 3:39:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 3:39:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 3:42:30 PM EDT
Damn.... The front fell off!!!!!


Sorry....Slug-O
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 3:45:39 PM EDT
Damn.  Regardless of the cause that sucks.
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 3:49:16 PM EDT
Glad your Ok, OP.

GEMTECH will make it right.

Meanwhile

Link Posted: 6/28/2012 3:49:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/28/2012 4:14:42 PM EDT by thegooch]





Originally Posted By dmtsc:





Originally Posted By Backnblack:


2 rounds?






that can has seen more than 2 rounds through it imho



It's seen a lot more than that.  





This trip I shot 100 rounds without the can, put the can on and 2 rounds into a 17rd magazine........this happened.





 
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 3:56:14 PM EDT



Originally Posted By bigbore:



Originally Posted By Waveform:




Originally Posted By bigbore:


Originally Posted By thegooch:




Originally Posted By bigbore:

158gr out of a pistol? Isn't there a note on the box to only shoot that ammo through carbines/subguns? 147gr ammo and the can would still be in one piece I'd bet.


No

 




There should be. That ammo is not for use in pistols, and is the reason the can is broke.


And your reasoning behind this is what?



This is the third gemtech can, that I know about, that has done this...this year.



 




158rg 9mm ammo is for blowback carbines and submachine guns. No pistol, or pistol suppressor with a booster was made/designed for the torque/pressure/recoil whatever you want to call it of that ammo.  That stuff will  tear up the insides of an MP5 too.    158gr 9mm ammo is great in a suppressed UZI, STEN, MAC, etc. but you will ruin a locking action pistol with that stuff.

I'm sure Kel or PhD will be along soon, and recommend no one use 158gr 9mm in a locking pistol, or a boosted suppressor - or, they may tell me I'm wrong.  Either way, I don't recommend it.



Beats me, seems like lots of other folks use it in pistols with no problems.



http://www.silencerforum.com/forum/showthread.php/257-Looking-for-9mm-Subsonic-Ammo/page2



http://www.silencerforum.com/forum/showthread.php/606-9mm-Subsonic-ammo-SOUND-TEST-quot-shoot-out-quot



"FIRST PLACE:  FIOCCHI 158 GR SUBSONIC





The Fiocchis 158 Gr was the quietest 9mm subsonic round at the shooter's
ear, measuring only 125db.  It was also the only round that was
consistently quieter "at the ear" than it was "at the muzzle" (the sound
wave analysis clearly shows the "at the ear" sound wave peaking well
below the reading "at the muzzle").  The Fiocchi had a deep "thumpy"
tone and was very pleasing to the ear.  It cycled our Glock 17 / Ti-Rant
9 combo very well - we had no malfunctions.
"

 
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 4:00:31 PM EDT
Tag for edjamacation
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 4:07:24 PM EDT
As I stated in the first post, let's not pass judgement until Gemtech has a chance to look at it and diagnose.  However I don't feel as if the 158gr ammo was the culprit.



http://www.silencerforum.com/forum/showthread.php/1112-Multimount-New-version/page4



"Just curious.  I have an LRM169 and the manual states not to use ammo
above 124GR in weight.  Does the Multimount have the same warning or is
147GR and 158GR OK to run through it?"



"No such restrictions apply to the MultiMount (I shoot 158gr through ours all the time)."



In Gemtech industry forum on another webpage, now granted it's not Kel or Gemtec responding to the question.....



Link Posted: 6/28/2012 4:08:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By IwearMossyOak:
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
That sucks but I'm sure they'll take care of it. If it were me, I would have probably laughed my ass off when it went flying downrange.


I call BS on laughing your ass off. Maybe, just maybe later on down the road, but not right away. I would be PISSED!

OP, yours isnt the first one I have heard this happening too. Not sure how the others played out though. Good luck.



Maybe if I was out hunting and it screwed up a video I might be irritated but just out shooting and it blew up and went flying? I would be like, "Holy shit! Did you see that? Did you see how far that thing went flying? WTF just happened? "

Life is short, I don't sweat the small stuff. Shit breaks, it's not worth crying over.

Link Posted: 6/28/2012 4:28:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dmtsc:
Originally Posted By Backnblack:
2 rounds?


that can has seen more than 2 rounds through it imho


Thats what I was thinking....a load more..
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 5:23:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
Originally Posted By IwearMossyOak:
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
That sucks but I'm sure they'll take care of it. If it were me, I would have probably laughed my ass off when it went flying downrange.


I call BS on laughing your ass off. Maybe, just maybe later on down the road, but not right away. I would be PISSED!

OP, yours isnt the first one I have heard this happening too. Not sure how the others played out though. Good luck.



Maybe if I was out hunting and it screwed up a video I might be irritated but just out shooting and it blew up and went flying? I would be like, "Holy shit! Did you see that? Did you see how far that thing went flying? WTF just happened? "

Life is short, I don't sweat the small stuff. Shit breaks, it's not worth crying over.



I can see what you are saying.  I was watching a friend shoot my P32 when this happened.

I LOL'ed.  I was counting rounds too, so I knew the gun was empty and the was no chance of a second bullet being shot into this one.

Of course, I don't think I will be as cool if something similar were to happen to my trust's Isis-2 9mm, after I finally get to take it home.
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 5:27:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bigbore:
158gr out of a pistol?  Isn't there a note on the box to only shoot that ammo through carbines/subguns? 147gr ammo and the can would still be in one piece I'd bet.


I was thinking the exact same thing.  158gr 9mm out of a handgun is bad juju.
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 5:33:09 PM EDT
I have shot 1000s of rounds of 158gr through my p226 and osprey without any problems.  Its the only 9mm I buy anymore, I will continue to use it.  This is the third gemtech can I have seen with the exact same failure in the last couple of months.  Obviously something is seriously wrong with gemtechs design.
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 5:40:38 PM EDT



Originally Posted By bigbore:



158rg 9mm ammo is for blowback carbines and submachine guns. No pistol, or pistol suppressor with a booster was made/designed for the torque/pressure/recoil whatever you want to call it of that ammo.  That stuff will  tear up the insides of an MP5 too.    158gr 9mm ammo is great in a suppressed UZI, STEN, MAC, etc. but you will ruin a locking action pistol with that stuff.

I'm sure Kel or PhD will be along soon, and recommend no one use 158gr 9mm in a locking pistol, or a boosted suppressor - or, they may tell me I'm wrong.  Either way, I don't recommend it.



Smaller powder charge, slower bullet, so lower slide velocity. So it's easier on the baffles and not as violent on the booster. Sounds real dangerous. Maybe it's just dangerous for shoddy can designs.



Maybe the best bullet weight for cans of certain manufacture is 0 grains



 
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 6:01:50 PM EDT



Originally Posted By yamatitan:


I have shot 1000s of rounds of 158gr through my p226 and osprey without any problems.  Its the only 9mm I buy anymore, I will continue to use it.  This is the third gemtech can I have seen with the exact same failure in the last couple of months.  Obviously something is seriously wrong with gemtechs design.


that ain't good news



 
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 6:20:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/28/2012 6:20:41 PM EDT by Ponyboy]
Originally Posted By Kristofer_G:

I can see what you are saying.  I was watching a friend shoot my P32 when this happened.
http://jggunsmith.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/keltec-p32-2-rs.jpg
I LOL'ed.  I was counting rounds too, so I knew the gun was empty and the was no chance of a second bullet being shot into this one.


That is the funniest picture I've seen today. The bullet just barely peeking out of the barrel is funny as hell.

That reminds me of when I saw some black powder cap and ball revolvers on sale in the bargain cave at Cabelas for $100. I bought two of them, one for me and one for my best friend for black powder season up in Oklahoma. I'd never had a black powder revolver and neither had he so when he asked me how much powder to load I told him I had no idea. So he "researched" it and one day he said he wanted to go test fire his.

We got out there and he started loading it up with something like 10 grains of powder. I told him that I didn't think that was enough but he was adamant about reading that you should start with that much and work your way up. I said, "Ok" then just stood back and watched. From about 15 feet I don't think the ball even made it to the target. It barely made it out of the barrel and bounced a few times in the dirt before disappearing in the grass.

I almost passed out I was laughing at him so hard.

Of course, I don't think I will be as cool if something similar were to happen to my trust's Isis-2 9mm, after I finally get to take it home.


I've got several suppressors and a few more on the way so if I break one, I'll just use another one.





Link Posted: 6/28/2012 11:55:43 PM EDT
Wow! I have never seen that before, makes me want to check my Multimount before I take it to the range again.
Would be curious to see what Gemtech says.

PS - @BigBore - I have shot a good couple hundred rounds of Fiocchi 158gr as well as a hundred rounds of AWC 158gr without issue with a Glock 17 and Multimount.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 2:34:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By yamatitan:something is seriously wrong with gemtechs design.


The wall thickness where the threads are is too thin.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 4:47:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2012 4:48:00 AM EDT by Chris_1522]
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 7:53:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
Originally Posted By Kristofer_G:

Of course, I don't think I will be as cool if something similar were to happen to my trust's Isis-2 9mm, after I finally get to take it home.


I've got several suppressors and a few more on the way so if I break one, I'll just use another one.


The will be my first.  I plan on babying it, while shooting the hell out of it.  If that makes any sense...
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 9:03:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 9:10:52 AM EDT




Originally Posted By kel:

Gooch,





We appreciate your contacting us and giving us the opportunity to examine the suppressor. Since it's impossible to 'diagnose the patient until he's sitting on the table', we look forward to evaluating the issue, and most importantly - whatever the cause was - working together to make sure you're taken care of 100%, and back up and running with a proper GEMTECH product as quickly as we are able.



Regards,
Kel





GEMTECH





Kel,



The can was shipped today via UPS Next Day Air, it should be there Monday morning.  I'm looking forward to Gemtech's diagnosis.

Link Posted: 6/29/2012 9:14:31 AM EDT
I am watching this thread as I really want a multimount.  

Did the break occur where a weld is located?  Or is it on the top of the threaded section on the front?
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 9:23:38 AM EDT
Hope all ends well.  Confident it will.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 4:13:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kel:
Gooch,


We appreciate your contacting us and giving us the opportunity to examine the suppressor. Since it's impossible to 'diagnose the patient until he's sitting on the table', we look forward to evaluating the issue, and most importantly - whatever the cause was - working together to make sure you're taken care of 100%, and back up and running with a proper GEMTECH product as quickly as we are able.

Regards,



Kel


GEMTECH


Kel,
Since it was brought up and discussed in this thread, can you address whether or not 158g 9mm ammo is acceptable/approved/recommended/etc for Gemtech 9mm suppressors?
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 4:30:27 PM EDT
Interesting failure.

My Multimount just shed a tear while reading this thread.

I've also never heard that 158gr is not good for pistols.  Ever.  Anywhere.  I'd be interested in actual numbers or science, not just speculation.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 4:39:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2012 4:39:59 PM EDT by gunnut284]
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Interesting failure.

My Multimount just shed a tear while reading this thread.

I've also never heard that 158gr is not good for pistols.  Ever.  Anywhere.  I'd be interested in actual numbers or science, not just speculation.


I haven't either and would be inclined to disregard except that it was bigbore who said it and I tend to value his opinion on such things.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 5:48:12 PM EDT
^^Bingo^^
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 5:59:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By gunnut284:
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Interesting failure.

My Multimount just shed a tear while reading this thread.

I've also never heard that 158gr is not good for pistols.  Ever.  Anywhere.  I'd be interested in actual numbers or science, not just speculation.


I haven't either and would be inclined to disregard except that it was bigbore who said it and I tend to value his opinion on such things.


Same here.  The Fiocchi 158's are a standard by which other subsonics are measured, Bryan (Major Malfunction) tested several sub loads for handguns and found them to be the quietest.  They are widely accepted and highly regarded by members of Silencertalk and silencerforum as the best factory 9mm subsonic load.  I personally have around 1000 rounds through 2 glock 17's with a Trident 9.  Barrel hoods look fine, never an issue.  I fail to see how a slightly longer, heavier bullet with no real appreciable difference in energy vs other 9mm loads (less than a lot of rounds, especially defensive 147's) will cause any damage, and this is the first I have ever heard of this.

If it weren't for the fact that Steve was the one who said they were bad in handguns, I wouldn't even have acknowledged the comment.  I am eager to hear more as I respect him and his vast knowledge a great deal.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:06:53 PM EDT
GEMTECH will make it right.  I haven't used that ammo but have used Hertenberger with Gemtech cans in subguns without any issues and it's not recommended for handguns. I have out a few rounds of it through a suppressed Glock but don't make a habit of it since its not subsonic and really hot?
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:32:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2012 6:51:15 PM EDT by bigbore]
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