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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/15/2005 11:43:41 AM EDT
Went shooting this morning.

I was shooting my AR15 with a Model One upper, no flash suppressor. My buddy Tman was shooting his AK in 5.56. We were both shooting Wolf Ammo. They both have the same length barrels.

When I shot my rifle, there was hardly any observable muzzle flash.

When Tman shot the AK, it had a ball of fire as big as a small watermelon coming out of the barrel.

We discussed this, but did not reach any definite conclusions.

Anyone have an explaination as to why barrels of the same length, both of which did not have a flash suppressor, would have such a difference in muzzle flash?

Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 2:56:03 PM EDT
Was ammo from same lot or mfg'ed same time period?

Did you try switching ammo (his in your gun) to see if results stayed the same?
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 3:03:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Noname:
Was ammo from same lot or mfg'ed same time period?

Did you try switching ammo (his in your gun) to see if results stayed the same?



Yep, we sure did try switching.

It was the same ammo in both guns.

(BTW, the Mods ask, "Why do you post in the General Discussion with everything. Why don't you post it in the proper forum?"

I did. And got 14 looks in 3 hours.)
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 3:18:14 PM EDT
I can't answer your question but i have seen the same thing in ARs of simlar length. During night shoot our instructor had a guy with a 16 inch barrel (don't remember the make i believe the barrel was an M4 profile) with no FS shoot so we could compare it to our vortexs and what have you. He shot and there was no flash, he then tried several types of ammo and the most he could get was a faint glow.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 5:09:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By Noname:
Was ammo from same lot or mfg'ed same time period?

Did you try switching ammo (his in your gun) to see if results stayed the same?



Yep, we sure did try switching.

It was the same ammo in both guns.

(BTW, the Mods ask, "Why do you post in the General Discussion with everything. Why don't you post it in the proper forum?"

I did. And got 14 looks in 3 hours.)



If you wanted to mess around, and based on TBOT, I know you like to find out "Why"...


I would think the next step is to chrono both guns/rounds just to see how much difference there is.

I would attribute the flash difference to land/groove sizes and gas port dia/location on the BBL's. Maybe even add the bleedports on the AK gas cyl.

If not just attribute it to gun-voodoo...!
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 5:14:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:


(BTW, the Mods ask, "Why do you post in the General Discussion with everything. Why don't you post it in the proper forum?"

I did. And got 14 looks in 3 hours.)





The "WHY DIDN'T YOU POST IT IN THIS FORUM" Nazi's do seem to be kickin in the fourbarrels a lot lately...!
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 5:18:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Noname:


The "WHY DIDN'T YOU POST IT IN THIS FORUM" Nazi's do seem to be kickin in the fourbarrels a lot lately...!



You do realize that the term "fourbarrel" dates us, don't you know?
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 5:40:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By Noname:


The "WHY DIDN'T YOU POST IT IN THIS FORUM" Nazi's do seem to be kickin in the fourbarrels a lot lately...!



You do realize that the term "fourbarrel" dates us, don't you know?




LOL...!

Yep but I figgered the kids would be clueless!
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:47:43 PM EDT
Type of gas system, maybe?
Length from gas port to muzzle, perhaps?

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:23:23 AM EDT
That is wierd, because my 16" barrel with no flash hider makes a basketball sized flash using wolf ammo. At night it is very bright!
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 6:51:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 6:58:47 AM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:26:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By raf:
Was the AK bare-muzzled, or did it have any type of muzzle device, either fixed or removeable?

Some muzzle devices, usually those supposed to be compensators or brakes, can radically increase muzzle flash.

Unless the two weapons' barrels are nearly the same length, and they have identical muzzle configuration, comparison is of doubful value.



Both the Ar and the AK were bare muzzled, 16 inch barrels. We even laid them beside each other to compare and they were exactly the same.


This sort of thing is why I shake my head at many people saying that they will use their plain-muzzled (or, just as bad, compensated/braked)) M-forgery carbine for home defense.
What they fail to realize is that, unless they select their ammo very carefully, they will get off one shot and ruin whatever night vision they may have.



When I took the Urban Rifle course at Thunder Ranch, we shot one night. I got to observe a lot of different brakes and compensators.

I was shooting some ammo that had a flash suppressant in the powder and had no muzzle flash, even though I had no flash suppressor. Others, even with big flash suppressors, had fireballs the size of basketballs.

But the problem I was asking about is unique in that both rifles had no flash suppressor, were shooting the same ammo, had the same length barrels, but had big difference in muzzle flash.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:46:32 AM EDT
Did you try different magazines?

(It wouldn't be AR15.com without a totally brainless diagnosis now would it?)
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