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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 11/18/2012 3:28:54 PM EST

I've read all the other opinions on M&P(not a real AR) VS dedicated uppers, but no one seems to focus on the accuracy of the two options. Of all the options in these two categories of AR-22s which has been shown to be more accurate? I could give on the polymer non AR M&Ps if they are the most accurate, but are they? I do like the idea of a true AR upper and lower made of metal but is the price difference justified by accuracy alone? I know the uppers are close in price to the M&P route, but I would want a lower to go with an upper so there would be more money in an upper vs an M&P. If the accuracy is there I would consider the 522 as well.

Lets see some groups!!!
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 5:13:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2012 5:16:20 PM EST by VASCAR2]
Accuracy in an AR-15 is normally barrel first, trigger/shooter then good glass and a sturdy rest. How much accuracy you get is dependent on how much your willing to spend on equipment and ammo. If you buy a Compass Lake Engineering or Accuracy Speaks dedicated upper your most likely going to end up with a very accurate rifle. Nordic, J P and DPMS 2nd Gen 22 uppers use a modified 10/22 bolt and are reported to be accurate as are the Tactical Solutions. The Spike's Lothar Walther barreled uppers were pretty accurate. CMMG has released a couple of test mule uppers of a new accurate upper but to my knowledge they haven't been released to the public for sale.

There are also test on the new TACCOM barrels which have been favorable. Unless you buy a true match grade upper like CLE or AS I think it is a crap shoot how accurate an upper will be with 22 rimfire ammo. I have a 1st generation DPMS 16" bull barrel which will shoot similar groups to my Savage MK II FV bolt gun at 50 yards. These typically will shoot groups of .5 to 1 inch groups at 50 yards off a bi-pod. This varies depending on ammo as there is a big difference in what a given gun will do with the various 22 rimfire on the market.

The biggest issue I've seen with the S & W 15-22 is heat can affect accuracy due the polymer construction. Keep the 15-22 in the shade and cool they do pretty good but leave them in the hot sun and do several mag dumps and they start spraying bigger groups.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 3:36:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 3:38:08 AM EST by lasnyder]
I built a dedicated .22lr upper.... CMMG dedicated barrel, bolt group, charging handle... BCM upper, and a ARMS rail I picked up off the prize table at Ft Benning... excptional accuracy....trigger was a good NM Rock River in the receiver.... 3/8" at 35y with a 6moa reflex sight (I can't see much better than that) with bulk CCI ammo ... it rivals my STC rifle at that distance...I've never put the 6-24 scope on it for 100m groups....
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 7:20:29 AM EST
I went the M&P route due to weight.

Great trainer for youths or small people (wife/girlfriend), or carrying around all day. No complaints in the accuracy department! No formal testing to report though.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 4:23:25 PM EST
Thanks guys.........decisions decisions...
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 4:40:08 PM EST
I bought a complete CMMG in .22. I also have a Sig 522, and both are more accurate than I am. I did not think that about the 10/22 or the conversion I used with a standard 5.56 bbl..

I would recommend either the CMMG or the 522.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 1:16:16 PM EST
Anybody know where to get this CMMG Tango I've been reading about?
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 7:21:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By GunMount:
Anybody know where to get this CMMG Tango I've been reading about?


You can not buy it....yet.... There were five samples made for field testing. Two stayed at CMMG the other three went to the testers (Me and Dave and Dave). The final production versions are not available yet. Last I heard they might come as a "kit" with a barrel and bolt and you put it together in your receiver. But, that is just speculation. Don't know the date yet. Its a busy time in the firearms industry and this is not on the top of the list. I will say that it shoots quite well.

As for what is out there right now: The DMPS, the Noric, the Tactical Solutions, the TACCOM, the CMMG and some others. I have three of those. Which shoots best? In typical .22 fashion...they vary a lot depending on ammo. All will shoot quite well when given their favorite ammo. The Tac Sol seems to be most tolerant of bulk ammo and probably the most accurate with it. After that, itts hard to say which one (outside the target CMMG) shoots the best with the right ammo. .
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 8:33:08 PM EST
I dunno...I got the M&P15 Talo edition which says it has a match grade barrel and I can attest it's pretty damn accurate (however it comes in pink camo so you guys prolly won't want one). I added a Nikon Prostaff Rimfire 3-9x40 scope which makes it even more fun to shoot tight little groups. My bff and her daughter both tried it out and shot some great groups. There may be a more accurate AR style 22 out there but I wouldn't trade mine for it.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 3:34:32 AM EST
I have visited the prize table a few years myself so respect for your skills and knowledge. Question - when you say 3/8 are you measuring distance between holes? Thanks.
Originally Posted By lasnyder:
I built a dedicated .22lr upper.... CMMG dedicated barrel, bolt group, charging handle... BCM upper, and a ARMS rail I picked up off the prize table at Ft Benning... excptional accuracy....trigger was a good NM Rock River in the receiver.... 3/8" at 35y with a 6moa reflex sight (I can't see much better than that) with bulk CCI ammo ... it rivals my STC rifle at that distance...I've never put the 6-24 scope on it for 100m groups....


Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:45:51 AM EST
five shot groups, overall spread... edge to edge....I had an older non magnified Trijicon reflex sight, and was holding 6 o'clock tangent sight picture..and was on my primary lower with a pretty good trigger... didn't have time to shoot a longer range than the 35y

Link Posted: 11/22/2012 3:55:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By GunMount:
Anybody know where to get this CMMG Tango I've been reading about?


The what?
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:22:29 PM EST
Looks like it could be a while on the Tango.....was wanting something a little more consistant than my Henry for playing target games. It is pretty accurate but it starts to wander once the barrel warms up, and when I walk down range it cools a little and just keeps moving around as it cools and warms up again...so I was wanting some type of bull barrel to help with that...and more capacity to cut down on reloads,

Anyone have any range reports on the E.R. Shaw barrels that come with the Model 1 sales kits? I read good and bad about the company itself, but wonder about these kits. They look good and they give you plenty of options for everything. Would really rather stick with a true AR platform...
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:24:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
Originally Posted By GunMount:
Anybody know where to get this CMMG Tango I've been reading about?


The what?


The Tango from CMMG, I guess they are just testing it now, not available yet. But from what I've read it sounds like a real tack driver in a true AR upper.....
Link Posted: 11/23/2012 4:00:26 AM EST
you can build a spacer "button" to help preload the drop in conversions, or buy one... it allows the regular buffer to help apply pressure to seat the cartridge consistently... my perception is that this really helps with reliability and accuracy

Link Posted: 11/23/2012 6:37:30 AM EST
As I don't currently have a .22 upper or a conversion I'm not to sure what this spacer would do, what do you mean by preload, and from what materials and how was the spacer made? Thanks for all the info!
Link Posted: 11/23/2012 8:13:03 AM EST
sorry about the use of the term "preload"... the conversion units move around a little in the upper receiver...I turned the spacer out of aluminum stock (rounded edge towards the bolt so it can cam open when the action is opened)...it is inserted into the buffer tube, and provides forward pressure from the buffer/spring to help keep the conversion unit pushed into the chamber.... I perceive that it helps the conversion unit work consistently... on my dedicated barrel, there is not a chamber insert, so it helps consistent headspacing of the cartridges..
Link Posted: 11/23/2012 1:02:52 PM EST
What conversion are you running? Would it apply to all of them? I notice some of the CMMG units have locking bolts just like a 5.56, anyone have comments about those? Are they compatible with dedicated uppers or only a 5.56 barrel? I can't stop looking at that model 1 sales 20" Varmint kit, seems like a good price on a dedicated setup, but I don't care for the look of their .22 bolts. They also offer a Ciener unit, but I like the idea of locking lugs better than either of those options, hell I like any of the CMMG units better than those two. Just can't tell if the CMMG with locking lugs would work with it...
Link Posted: 11/23/2012 2:02:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/23/2012 2:20:23 PM EST by lasnyder]
I built mine in stages... first couple of years just the CMMG parkerized drop in unit with chamber insert (straight blow back unit, no locking lugs)...as I commented, the accuracy was not that good, but acceptable for shooting on steel plates I was using for transition drills....we were practicing for the Ft Benning 3gun matches, but at a private 35y range....then the CMMG dedicated barrel with the feed ramp ring....for a while a local club was shooting .22lr "two gun" matches, and the plates were about 4"x6" so upgrade for the improved accuracy...in the pic, the original drop in assembly came with the chamber insert (bottom of pic) on the forward portion of the rails...the dedicated .22lr barrel comes with a feed ramp ring assembly (shown slid off the barrel...that replaces the chamber insert... it has a detent ball that snaps in the ring on the barrel extension)...otherwise is a straight blow back system

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