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Posted: 8/9/2017 9:33:46 AM EDT
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I under this not a good picture but have questions about this rifle

The rear sight  is different
The hand guard isn't there. But the barrel bans looks like it doesn't have one.

What can you tell me about it from this picture.
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 9:50:22 AM EDT
[#1]
picture of the roll mark?

and it has one of those scout scope mount things as a rear sight
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 9:52:54 AM EDT
[#2]
No scope mount
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 11:40:27 AM EDT
[#3]
Older rifle. Depending on length, it's likely a M1891 (M91), as Dragoon, or a Cossack. It's a LOT more likely it's a M91, but the possibility remains that it could be one of the other two.

We'll need more and better pictures to be sure.

Get one of the Barrel shank and measure the overall length.
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 12:19:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 12:21:20 PM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 12:32:48 PM EDT
[#6]
From the markings, it looks like an Imperial Tula M1891, to me, but it's hard to make out the markings.

I love the old M91s. They have a lot of style and character.
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 12:42:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Go shoot it at a thousand arshins and post a pic of the target, OP.  
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 2:17:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Definitely a M91.  http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM91R.htm

You can move the rear sight slider by squeezing the buttons on either side of the slider and pulling it rearward.  It's set at a very long range right now.

The handguard is missing, but that's not uncommon on M91s.  The handguard is held in place by small metal "prongs" on the front and back of the handguard, which slip under the barrel bands.  The barrel bands don't go over the thicker wooden portion of the handguard, which is why it looks normal even though the handguard is missing.

Link Posted: 8/9/2017 2:41:07 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 3:05:58 PM EDT
[#10]
This isn't my rifle . It is someone selling it. I am trying to figure out what it is and a approximate value.  I am going to get my hands on it this evening and should get some good picture.
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 3:59:24 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 6:42:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Can't make out the date due to the blurry picture but it's a Tula made M91 made between 1892 and 1912 when they switched to the Peter the Great marking. M91's like it usually sell in the 400$ range depending but replacement hand guards are difficult to find and can cost upwards of 100$ when you do find them so I'd call it a 300$ rifle.
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 6:53:48 PM EDT
[#13]
The overall length is 51 inches barrel length is 33 inches to the opening in the receiver cleaning a ride is 29 inches
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Link Posted: 8/9/2017 6:55:18 PM EDT
[#14]
And the numbers do not match.

With non matching numbers rust on the but plate and what I think is fair condition the barrel bands need to be soaked in penetrating oil to be able to get them to move so they can be tighten them up
Bore is dirty but the rifling looks strong.
These ok to shoot?

How much would you buy it for. Want to make an responsible offer.
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 7:16:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Antique bbl, probable antique receiver, price just went up.  

Perfectly safe to shoot.  Probably fought in the 1st WW w/o issues.
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 7:18:10 PM EDT
[#16]
?????
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 7:49:48 PM EDT
[#17]
I'd offer 300$ due to the missing hand guard, I'd also check the barrel bands to make sure the screws aren't stripped out. The screws on those barrel bands are reverse theaded and many are stripped out accidentally by people who don't know better. They can't be fixed if they are stripped so you have to buy new bands which cost about 40$ apiece so that could affect value as well. The D stamp on the barrel shank is a Finnish stamp meaning chamber was modified to handle the Finnish D-166 service round during WW2 so this rifle  was used by the Finn's in WW2 and likely saw action WW1 before that.
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 11:12:48 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
I can't tell from the pictures.  But does the stock appear to be glued up from two ends using finger joints roughly under the receiver?  It's not likely, but possible.  Mosins in Finn service were often refurbed with two piece glued-up stocks that were actually stronger in cold weather.  But they did that more often with 91/30s and M39s.  (Strictly speaking, an M39 isn't exactly a refurb.)  It was unusual for the Finns to equip Mosin-Nagant 1891 models with two piece stocks, I've read.  

I agree.  $300.
Link Posted: 8/10/2017 6:54:12 AM EDT
[#19]
It appears to be one piece stock
Link Posted: 8/10/2017 4:00:24 PM EDT
[#20]
The guy is asking $100 for it  he said it was same price he paid for it several years ago  at an auction  and was on his wall until he remoded. Then was just in his safe.  He also said he has like 4 packs of ammo to go with it.  So should  I  get it for that price?


Beside the handguard , Sight and barrel bands what is the difference between this 91 and a  91/30?
Link Posted: 8/10/2017 5:15:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Fo on any Mosin being sold for the same price as 10 years ago.
Link Posted: 8/10/2017 7:03:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 8/10/2017 7:04:32 PM EDT
[#23]
Don't get paid until Friday evening.

I should have it Monday
Link Posted: 8/10/2017 7:06:49 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The guy is asking $100 for it  he said it was same price he paid for it several years ago  at an auction  and was on his wall until he remoded. Then was just in his safe.  He also said he has like 4 packs of ammo to go with it.  So should  I  get it for that price?


Beside the handguard , Sight and barrel bands what is the difference between this 91 and a  91/30?
View Quote
In addition to the sights, bands and stock, the M91 has a barrel 3 inches longer than a M91/30. 100$ is 1/3 of the actual value, I'd already be in my car driving to buy it if it was me.
Link Posted: 8/10/2017 7:22:23 PM EDT
[#25]
Does it use the same bayonet and sling as the 91/30?

Where could I possibly find the hand guard?
Link Posted: 8/10/2017 7:27:16 PM EDT
[#26]
The bayonet is different, the original M91 bayonet is a lock ring bayonet
Link Posted: 8/10/2017 7:32:29 PM EDT
[#27]
Can you provide me with example?

Where can one fine one?
Link Posted: 8/10/2017 7:43:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 8/10/2017 7:57:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Is this  a rare  rifle?  Just trying to understand why thing  are so high.  One can  find 91/30 parts resonabme the bayonet  runs about $30 and you say one for this is over 100
The barrel bands on ebay are about  60$ when  the 91/30 run about  20$
Link Posted: 8/10/2017 8:24:03 PM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 8/13/2017 5:50:27 PM EDT
[#31]
It's old.  It was old in WW2.  For $100 buy the goddamn thing and ask questions later.
Link Posted: 8/13/2017 6:32:03 PM EDT
[#32]
I have a copy of my current c&r and $100 cash. Should see the guy tomorrow morning.
So if everything goes right I should have it tomorrow. Then Wednesday I am going to spend day cleaning it up.

While this will fit in my collection quite nice. I am waiting another c&r handgun.  I am debating about keeping it or trying to trade it  for a c&r handgun.

What should I do???
Link Posted: 8/13/2017 8:36:09 PM EDT
[#33]
I'll pay you that plus shipping to my FFL.
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 11:17:22 AM EDT
[#34]
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 11:54:25 AM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have a copy of my current c&r and $100 cash. Should see the guy tomorrow morning.
So if everything goes right I should have it tomorrow. Then Wednesday I am going to spend day cleaning it up.

While this will fit in my collection quite nice. I am waiting another c&r handgun.  I am debating about keeping it or trying to trade it  for a c&r handgun.

What should I do???
View Quote
If you just want a shooter, it's up to you. 

But this actual gun was built in the 19th century for the Imperial Russian Army.  It may well have served in the Russo-Japanese War, to say nothing of WWI, the Russian Civil War, and WWII.
In my mind, a rifle that was built for an ancient monarchical Empire that no longer exists and is available that cheap is worth keeping around.   What the point of C&R'ing if not for the history?
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 12:14:58 PM EDT
[#36]
That is the  the  problem. I am having

This rifle fits great in my collection and I got it at a price I could afford.

But  I really want a 1895 nagant revolver,  and don't have the extra cash right now to get one.

This rifle might be able to get me one  but then I don't know when I can find another m95 mosin.
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 12:37:37 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That is the  the  problem. I am having

This rifle fits great in my collection and I got it at a price I could afford.

But  I really want a 1895 nagant revolver,  and don't have the extra cash right now to get one.

This rifle might be able to get me one  but then I don't know when I can find another m95 mosin.
View Quote
Get this one.  Then save $.  If you find a Nagant revolver first, great.  Buy it.  If you find another Imperial 1891 first, get that, then decide which one you want to flip.

Don't create one hole in your collection to fill another.
Link Posted: 8/15/2017 2:04:12 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Can you provide me with example?

Where can one fine one?
View Quote
Here is a Tula (hammer mark) example of a locking ring M91 bayonet. They were fitted and numbered to the rifle they went on. The only one of my M91s this one would fit to where it can be easily mounted/dismounted is my 1897 Sestroryetsk.

* Note....Some 91/30 refurb bayonets, while numbered to the rifle were not fitted to the rifle.

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Link Posted: 8/16/2017 12:10:46 PM EDT
[#39]
I got the rifle home today  and logged it in my c&r book.  Then I started cleaning  it.  The rifle came out a lot better then I thought it would. The but plate  came clean but has putting on it,  some piiltting  on the outside  of the magazine well where it is in the rifle nothing unexpected.  A few dark spots on the receiver.  I didn't  scrub to hard because  I didn't want to remove what was left of the billing.   Beside being beat up the wood is in good condition what I thought may have been a crack is  a long scratch.  The wood is dark around the neck of the stock from people  holding it.  The barrel bands screws are not stripped out and I was able to tighten them up some.   I have to come up with some kind of shim to go between  the band and the stock to hold them tight.
I can not be 100% sure but  the receiver and barred doesn't appear  to have been changed out.  The fit between  the two is very close and tight.  The blue under the stock looks the same  on the barrel and received.

I can not find an important  mark any place  on the rifle.   I also can't find a caliber marking on the rifle.

I loaded 4 rounds of 7.62x54r and cycled it.  It ejeced  the rounds fine.  Chambered  them fine.  The bullet will only go in 1/2 way into the muzzle

I have not tried to see if it will set off a primer. I have to prime a few cases. The rifling looks fairly  good from. What I can. See.

Is there any place I can look. For import and caliber marking?

If no import marks are on it,   does that do anything to The value?
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 12:15:32 PM EDT
[#40]
No import marks bumps the value a bit.  Did you pull the receiver out?  What is the receiver date on the underside of the rear tang?
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 12:30:17 PM EDT
[#41]
I did not see any date on the receiver. Where would it be at?
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 12:38:40 PM EDT
[#42]
On the underside of the rear tang.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 12:49:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 1:56:13 PM EDT
[#44]
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 1:57:42 PM EDT
[#45]
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 2:02:23 PM EDT
[#47]
I could not find any date on the receiver but it looks like a witness mark on the receiver and barrel?

Can not find any important marks or caliber. In the above pictures is all the marks can find
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 2:38:47 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:  I could not find any date on the receiver but it looks like a witness mark on the receiver and barrel?

Can not find any important marks or caliber. In the above pictures is all the marks can find
View Quote
These are pictures of the date:

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Can't quite make out the second digit, but will be 189n, probably matches your early bbl date.  Really nice buy for $100.  If second digit is 1-8, you have a legal antique, can ship anywhere to anyone in the US via US mail.

Caliber will be 7.62x54R, widely available, .30"-06 class round, still used worldwide in the Soviet/Russian PK/PKM machine gun.

If you decide you don't want it and it's a legal antique, I'll pay you your purchase price, shipping, and $50 for your trouble.  Someone else has already offered you $200, above.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 2:50:23 PM EDT
[#49]
If the barrel  is 1895 and it has what looks to me as witness  mark on the bottom of the  barrel and receiver  and the numbers on the receiver I am willing to bet that this is the original action for the barrel.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 3:28:00 PM EDT
[#50]
Just FYI, some old Mosins were converted to .30"-06 back in the day by reaming out the chamber.  Bannerman did it right - not everyone did so.  Yours is not a Bannerman conversion.  Shoot w/ a string on your 1st shot, & check your case carefully, or try some Go/NoGo gauges.
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