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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/18/2005 12:09:31 AM EDT
Say I was to purchase a full auto C&R AR-15 sp1. Say, I wanted to put a different stock, different upper with a 10.5" barrel and a 3 shot burst trigger group, could I legally do this, or do I have to leave the firearm in its original formation? Just a question I had.

Kris
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 9:35:54 AM EDT
Are any AR 15s full auto or not on the C&R list.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 10:25:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bearcat6:
Are any AR 15s full auto or not on the C&R list.



I'm not quite sure what you are asking. Here's what I think you are asking though. Yes, the very early AR-15 SP1 is a C&R full auto. Newer ones are not C&R rated. The older ones run about $15k IIRC.

Kris
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 12:23:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2005 12:23:45 PM EDT by Lumpy223]
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 6:13:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2005 6:15:18 AM EDT by EOD_Guy]

Originally Posted By Lumpy223:
According to the ATF, these are the only two AR15 type full auto weapons that are on the list........


Armalite AR-15, .222 Remington or.223 cals., produced by Armalite.

Armalite AR-15, Model 601,.223 cal., mfd. by Colt. Must be marked "Armalite."


Information taken from here www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/sec4.htm

As far as your original question goes, I don't know the absolute legality of doing so but I know plenty of other folks who have done it. Just keep your original parts so that if you ever wanted to sell it, you could return it to its original configuration.



If the firearm is over 50 years old, it is a C&R and does not have to be listed.

As to the first question, if you added an upper with a 10.5 inch barrel, you would be making a short barreled rifle. I believe that would entail a separate tax stamp. I think the 3 shot burst trigger group would also involve a separate transfer.

The best ones to ask about this would be the BATF Firearms Technology Branch in DC (BEFORE the purchase).

Link Posted: 8/19/2005 11:54:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:

Originally Posted By Lumpy223:
According to the ATF, these are the only two AR15 type full auto weapons that are on the list........


Armalite AR-15, .222 Remington or.223 cals., produced by Armalite.

Armalite AR-15, Model 601,.223 cal., mfd. by Colt. Must be marked "Armalite."


Information taken from here www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/sec4.htm

As far as your original question goes, I don't know the absolute legality of doing so but I know plenty of other folks who have done it. Just keep your original parts so that if you ever wanted to sell it, you could return it to its original configuration.



If the firearm is over 50 years old, it is a C&R and does not have to be listed.

As to the first question, if you added an upper with a 10.5 inch barrel, you would be making a short barreled rifle. I believe that would entail a separate tax stamp. I think the 3 shot burst trigger group would also involve a separate transfer.

The best ones to ask about this would be the BATF Firearms Technology Branch in DC (BEFORE the purchase).




if its full auto it can have a short upper and not req another tax stamp.
becouse a SBR has to be semi auto only to fall under the SBR def.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:11:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:

Originally Posted By Lumpy223:
According to the ATF, these are the only two AR15 type full auto weapons that are on the list........


Armalite AR-15, .222 Remington or.223 cals., produced by Armalite.

Armalite AR-15, Model 601,.223 cal., mfd. by Colt. Must be marked "Armalite."


Information taken from here www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/sec4.htm

As far as your original question goes, I don't know the absolute legality of doing so but I know plenty of other folks who have done it. Just keep your original parts so that if you ever wanted to sell it, you could return it to its original configuration.



If the firearm is over 50 years old, it is a C&R and does not have to be listed.

As to the first question, if you added an upper with a 10.5 inch barrel, you would be making a short barreled rifle. I believe that would entail a separate tax stamp. I think the 3 shot burst trigger group would also involve a separate transfer.

The best ones to ask about this would be the BATF Firearms Technology Branch in DC (BEFORE the purchase).




Firearms over 50 years old are automatically C&R for non-NFA items. I recall reading somewhere in the literature that came with my C&R that even if an NFA item is over 50 years old, it still needs to be placed on the list.

I'm not 100% sure on that, but I'll check when I get home.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 12:42:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bump0x:

Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:

Originally Posted By Lumpy223:
According to the ATF, these are the only two AR15 type full auto weapons that are on the list........


Armalite AR-15, .222 Remington or.223 cals., produced by Armalite.

Armalite AR-15, Model 601,.223 cal., mfd. by Colt. Must be marked "Armalite."


Information taken from here www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/sec4.htm

As far as your original question goes, I don't know the absolute legality of doing so but I know plenty of other folks who have done it. Just keep your original parts so that if you ever wanted to sell it, you could return it to its original configuration.



If the firearm is over 50 years old, it is a C&R and does not have to be listed.

As to the first question, if you added an upper with a 10.5 inch barrel, you would be making a short barreled rifle. I believe that would entail a separate tax stamp. I think the 3 shot burst trigger group would also involve a separate transfer.

The best ones to ask about this would be the BATF Firearms Technology Branch in DC (BEFORE the purchase).




Firearms over 50 years old are automatically C&R for non-NFA items. I recall reading somewhere in the literature that came with my C&R that even if an NFA item is over 50 years old, it still needs to be placed on the list.

I'm not 100% sure on that, but I'll check when I get home.



i'm pretty surre on that as well.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:01:52 AM EDT
I'd post this question over here:
www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=3&f=14
Someone may be able to give you some more info.

CD
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:40:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 5:42:01 AM EDT by EOD_Guy]

Originally Posted By bumpOx:

Firearms over 50 years old are automatically C&R for non-NFA items. I recall reading somewhere in the literature that came with my C&R that even if an NFA item is over 50 years old, it still needs to be placed on the list.

I'm not 100% sure on that, but I'll check when I get home.





The fifty year rule applies to NFA weapons also. There is nothing in the regulation that exempts them from the definition. That doesn't mean that they are exempt from the NFA regulations. C&R NFA items are still fully regulated under the NFA.

BATF has removed some firearms from the NFA and either put them under the GCA as C&R's or has classified them as antiques, removing them from the provisions of both the NFA and the GCA.

Another thing to remember and slightly off the subject, is that an NFA firearm can never be an antique firearm. It would first have to be removed from the NFA by BATF.
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