Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
Durkin Tactical Franklin Armory
User Panel

Posted: 7/10/2017 5:39:10 PM EDT
Does anyone know what the NYX-14 uses for a tube? What about the other -14s out there such as the NVM-14, GT-14, etc.

Pretty sure the D300 also used a 10160. So what about the D350?

Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/10/2017 7:12:22 PM EDT
[#1]
I thought some of the d300s used 9916s
Link Posted: 7/10/2017 7:22:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I thought some of the d300s used 9916s
View Quote
Maybe they all did.
Link Posted: 7/10/2017 8:20:44 PM EDT
[#3]
As far as I know at least Armasight NYX-14 Pro (maybe non-pro too), N-14, ATN NVM14, Insight NVM-14 / NVM001 / MUM, Nivisys MUM-14 and N-Vision Optics GT-14 use a MX10160 format tube. Of those, with the Insight, Nivisys and probably the N-Vision too you shouldn't have much reason to put the tube into a PVS-14. The biggest reason would probably be all the accessories that aren't available for these optics.
Link Posted: 7/10/2017 8:46:02 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
As far as I know at least Armasight NYX-14 Pro (maybe non-pro too), N-14, ATN NVM14, Insight NVM-14 / NVM001 / MUM, Nivisys MUM-14 and N-Vision Optics GT-14 use a MX10160 format tube. Of those, with the Insight, Nivisys and probably the N-Vision too you shouldn't have much reason to put the tube into a PVS-14. The biggest reason would probably be all the accessories that aren't available for these optics.
View Quote
Thanks.

I ask because I've seen a few of the "knock off" 14s go for what seem like fairly decent prices on eBay and such.
Link Posted: 7/10/2017 8:54:35 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Thanks.

I ask because I've seen a few of the "knock off" 14s go for what seem like fairly decent prices on eBay and such.
View Quote
I'm sure you know, but beware the tubes can be anything. Gen3's can be from Ekran FEP especially in Armasight & ATN products. The Insight and Nivisys MUM housings are good and cost more than a PVS-14, while the ATN and Armasight that I know about are between $350 - $550 if I recall correctly. The N-Vision GT-14 is somewhere below a PVS-14, but not that much. Just to give some perspective to the prices, about what the price might tell about the price of the tube itself.
Link Posted: 7/10/2017 9:58:59 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Maybe they all did.
View Quote
Well thete were gen3 d300s
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 9:39:49 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Well thete were gen3 d300s
View Quote
So were the Gen3 units MX10160 while the Gen2 were MX9916?
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 10:20:24 AM EDT
[#8]
Im not experienced with the D300 but if its true they used 9916 gen 2 tubes then there is a good chance that there was a gen 3 version using a 10160 fitted in a slim to fat ANVIS adapter sleeve that gave the tube the same size dimensions of a 9916 and it fit into the housing just as well as the 9916 tube.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 12:24:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Im not experienced with the D300 but if its true they used 9916 gen 2 tubes then there is a good chance that there was a gen 3 version using a 10160 fitted in a slim to fat ANVIS adapter sleeve that gave the tube the same size dimensions of a 9916 and it fit into the housing just as well as the 9916 tube.
View Quote
Where would such an adapter be found?
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 12:35:18 PM EDT
[#10]
They are best sourced from one of the many mono systems that are made to fit 9916 tubes but have gen 3 tubes from the OEM. Examples are litton nitemate nav-3, be meyers dark invader owl and nitemare as well as multiple other similar systems. Often times one can find one of these monocular systems on ebay with a bad tube for very cheap. Then just disassemble and salvage the adapter. To recoup the money spent to get the adapter, the other good parts can be resold to someone needing the parts to repair their monocular that is the same model as the one you have the parts for after getting the adapter sleeve out of the device. A bad tube can be sold cheaply to someone who knows how to seperately test the individual parts(power supply and tube module) that make up the tube and if it can be rebuilt, they can rebuild it.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 12:45:02 PM EDT
[#11]
D300 Gen3 had a different objective lens to the Gen2 to allow for the difference in focal plane location.

Sleeving a Gen3 isn't difficult. You can use lots of toilet roll inserts and it will still work. Wrap it up in tape even. 

If you wrap it in tape, you can even tape the contact wires to the Gen3 tube - and save having to solder them. 
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 1:06:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

If you wrap it in tape, you can even tape the contact wires to the Gen3 tube - and save having to solder them. 
View Quote
Wow.

It would make sense that such an installation would work since really all it should need is electrical contact and something to hold the tube in line with the lenses. I just wouldn't have really thought about doing it.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 6:21:41 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Wow.

It would make sense that such an installation would work since really all it should need is electrical contact and something to hold the tube in line with the lenses. I just wouldn't have really thought about doing it.
View Quote
The problem is that the optics for gen3 need a different focal plane than those for a gen2 9916 Glass vs fiber optic input so you have to deal with that as well, modern gen2 tubes are glass input as well, so you don't have that same problem.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 10:20:12 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
As far as I know at least Armasight NYX-14 Pro (maybe non-pro too), N-14, ATN NVM14, Insight NVM-14 / NVM001 / MUM, Nivisys MUM-14 and N-Vision Optics GT-14 use a MX10160 format tube. Of those, with the Insight, Nivisys and probably the N-Vision too you shouldn't have much reason to put the tube into a PVS-14. The biggest reason would probably be all the accessories that aren't available for these optics.
View Quote
@murtis

Could you please explain the above statement?

Is there something to be gained from going to the pvs 14 housing?  Better optics?  Tougher/better waterproofing?  What would be the optimal housing if you had a really nice NVM-14 L3 filmless for example?

Thanks
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 12:43:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


@murtis

Could you please explain the above statement?

Is there something to be gained from going to the pvs 14 housing?  Better optics?  Tougher/better waterproofing?  What would be the optimal housing if you had a really nice NVM-14 L3 filmless for example?

Thanks
View Quote
I am not sure if with NVM-14 you mean an ATN NVM-14, but I am assuming so. Both MUM and PVS-14 are better in almost all ways compared to an ATN NVM-14. I don't know the specifics of the NVM-14 optics other than that they are quite good and the upgrade optics wise would not be huge. Noticeable but not huge. It has both good objective & eyepiece, not much distortion and the eyebox & eye relief are just fine. I actually wrote what is following after I realized you didn't just have a tube, but a NVM-14 too, somehow that escaped my eyes. Then added this first part and left the rest unedited. Sorry if I go a bit off of what you asked.

If you already have a MUM from Insight / Nivisys then you aren't gaining much, if at all, optics wise going to a PVS-14. The MUM objective is a bit slower (gathers a bit less light) and I think there are some differences between PVS-14 objective lens manufacturers regarding their F number, but the most common ones for the PVS-14 aren't much faster than that of the MUM. Optics wise there is nothing wrong with the MUM, and depending on the manufacturer of PVS-14 optics the MUM may be better. Don't ask me about the different manufacturers, that is out of my scope of knowledge, but I am sure some here have plenty more info on that if you want the absolute best optics for your 14. MUM has slightly more field of view than a PVS-14 which is nice. The N-Vision GT-14 has even wider field of view, but it's optics are not on par with either of the two other.

Newer PVS-14 are waterproof to some degree, but the MUM was designed for diving units and was used for such purposes. So no big difference there.

The MUM is lighter and smaller, in my opinion more ergonomic (also looks better ). As an example a MUM headmounted with a Rhino II to a Nightcap is unnoticeable and no counterweight needed. Easier to take apart, clean and switch tubes, no special tools required. The threads on the other hand are a bit fragile, so even if it is easy, you need to be careful not to screw either of the optics on wrong threads. The one physical weak point in the MUM is the power knob. Just writing that to google will bring up results of knobs that were turned with excessive force and breaking it instead of pushing it in and then turning.

If you don't already own a MUM, then I'd say go for a PVS-14 just because it is so common and has better resale value despite the MUM being considerably pricier when purchased new. You might find a used MUM body & optics for a very good price though.

PVS-14 has more accessories and if you ever plan to upgrade to a bino most accept PVS-14 optics so you need to pay only for the bino body itself. Only bino that accepts MUM optics is the Nivisys NVBS-15 which is no longer manufactured and finding a body only would be very difficult. A very low weight bino, but very rare. Though those too can be found for good prices because of it's unpopularity - not many even know such thing exists.

So in my opinion if you already own a MUM there is very little reason to spend more and not actually have an upgrade at all, or almost at all depending how you look at it. If you have a N-Vision Optics GT-14 then both the MUM and PVS-14 are better choices in all ways. It is not a bad housing, but the price difference to a PVS-14 is not much.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 7:21:23 PM EDT
[#16]
@murtis

Thanks!!

I appreciate the time you took in your reply.  That was a lot of good information.

I actually had/have no idea of the housing on the unit I own.  It was more of an impulse purchase on a good deal thanks to a group of dedicated Arfcomers (thanks Undefined and RUGreedy).  So, I did not "pay my dues" in the NV world by starting at the bottom and blemmed and working my way up.  Guess what I am saying is I am very ignorant on the housings and particulars.  I can say I managed to helmet mount mine using inexpensive parts and I am tickled pink on the ability to essentially walk right up on critters, and the starry night sky is... awesome.

Here is a link to the optic housing I have.

What can you tell me about that housing?  From your earlier post, the majority of the housings are in parity, at this point any dollars spent to upgrade would be chasing after perfect glass and the ability to utilize more widely available hardware?

The L3 spec sheet that came with the unit has excellent specs per other threads on here.  I just want to make sure I am leaving nothing on the table.

Worst case scenario, it sounds like the tube can be transplanted if the current housing lets me down since it is a common style, would you agree?

Thanks again!
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 9:04:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
@murtis

Thanks!!

I appreciate the time you took in your reply.  That was a lot of good information.

I actually had/have no idea of the housing on the unit I own.  It was more of an impulse purchase on a good deal thanks to a group of dedicated Arfcomers (thanks Undefined and RUGreedy).  So, I did not "pay my dues" in the NV world by starting at the bottom and blemmed and working my way up.  Guess what I am saying is I am very ignorant on the housings and particulars.  I can say I managed to helmet mount mine using inexpensive parts and I am tickled pink on the ability to essentially walk right up on critters, and the starry night sky is... awesome.

Here is a link to the optic housing I have.

What can you tell me about that housing?  From your earlier post, the majority of the housings are in parity, at this point any dollars spent to upgrade would be chasing after perfect glass and the ability to utilize more widely available hardware?

The L3 spec sheet that came with the unit has excellent specs per other threads on here.  I just want to make sure I am leaving nothing on the table.

Worst case scenario, it sounds like the tube can be transplanted if the current housing lets me down since it is a common style, would you agree?

Thanks again!
View Quote
No problem, happy to help.

As far as I know the N-14 and the ATN NVM-14 are exactly the same, or were at least, today there may be some differences. The two companies split and continued with mostly the same offerings for some time.

That housing is in no means bad, far from it. One of the best non-US & easily available housings that accept a MX10160 format tube. Many countries make their own NV housings and obviously are very good, but the majority of those are not for public sale.
Unfortunately I don't know the specifics about the optics other than what I remember when I had one, no distortion or blurring, not much vignetting (not dim at the edges), but surely you will gain both light gathering ability and resolution if going for a PVS-14 or at least resolution with a MUM.

I think the only way to get some idea of the upgrade would be to find someone with a close enough tube in a PVS-14.

But yeah, the worst case is a simple tube swap. Your tube will fit almost all modern monos and binos, although with manual gain units like the PVS-14 you will lack that feature. The tube will still work just as fine, but you can't manually adjust the gain, like you can't with the N-14.

You have a great tube and a good housing, not sure I would be upgrading unless I really wanted the max out of the tube. I did move from a GT-14 to a MUM for that reason (plus for the eye relief) and was happy with the decision. Now I have PVS-14 optics and don't miss anything except the slightly larger field of view from the MUM.

Cj7Hawk has posted plenty of great information on many housings and here's one that might give you some new ideas: http://aunv.blackice.com.au/forum?index=reviews&story=gt14mum
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:33:31 AM EDT
[#18]
@murtis

Thank you!!

Link Posted: 8/26/2017 8:46:10 AM EDT
[#19]
What about the PS28 clip-on? Anyone know what tube is inside?
Link Posted: 8/26/2017 11:48:07 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What about the PS28 clip-on? Anyone know what tube is inside?
View Quote
It seems that it has a few different options for tubes that can be installed. It will have a suffix after ps-28 that can be ussd to determine the tube generation and performance. For example PS-28-3P and there aee others. This suffix would he needed to identify the tube more completely. Watch out with ATN products though as if this clip on is anything like some of their other devices and have bodies that look the same onn the exterior but have different internal  structuring to accept russian tubes n one and american tubes in the other so if you get one and it is made to fit a certain type of russian made tube that is made to different dimensions than American made tubes which have their own version of the same body, then future upgrading to US made tubes in the future in the version made to fit the russian tubes wont be something that you will be able to do. So keep that in mind when looking at this and ithwr ATN products. Also consider that a high number of ATN will usually be missing some type of small parts, O-rings for examplebas well as other small parts, when brand new from the factory. Buying an ATN product and getting what you want and recieving a 100% complete unit when buying brand new, and even more so when looking to buy used, takes dilligence on your part and a bit of luck as well when it comes to getting a complete unit that isnt missing any small, but important, parts. Just sometging to consider.
Link Posted: 8/26/2017 12:52:01 PM EDT
[#21]
Some ATN units use Photonis tubes and, I assume anyway, other name-brand tubes. So are these factory seconds that have been sold to ATN at a discount? And are they luck of the draw and/or only used in ATN's more expensive models?

Case in point there's a PS28 listed now on the EE for $1200 with a white phosphor tube. If this has a Photonis tube inside that's probably a good deal on a good tube that could be removed and used in something else.
Link Posted: 8/26/2017 1:41:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Some ATN units use Photonis tubes and, I assume anyway, other name-brand tubes. So are these factory seconds that have been sold to ATN at a discount? And are they luck of the draw and/or only used in ATN's more expensive models?

Case in point there's a PS28 listed now on the EE for $1200 with a white phosphor tube. If this has a Photonis tube inside that's probably a good deal on a good tube that could be removed and used in something else.
View Quote
I realize that some probably do use photonis tubes but I also know that ATN sources tube from just about anywhere from anyone so finding a used unit with a photonis or a US tube is not something that is going to be as straight forward as you would think. From what I have seen if the device has a suffix at the end of its nomenclature that says "3A" or "3P" then you will be getting a US made gen 3 tube. Anything else i am unsure of and how to tell if a photonis tube is inside anyones guess.I am unsure of suffixes for photonis. If you purchase an atn unit used with the expectation you will get a unit with a photonis or US made tube then you are likely to be dsappointed. Another way to go about is is to buy a used ATN unit with the assumption it will have the lowest performing russian made tube available and then possibly be suprised when the unit contains a tube that is better than the piece of crap you were expecting to be in it. Then again I would not drop $1200 on a unit im expecting to be a piece of trash and hope that im suprised by what I actually recieve. Also the possibility that used units may have a different tube than what originally came inside the unit is always a possibility due to someone swapping tubes out.  the only way to best know what your getting is to learn everything you can about how ATN uses the suffixes to denote what tubes used in their devices. Probably will be very time consuming and very confusing. or just take the easy, but often more expensive, route and buy a milspec ITT/Harris Or L-3 unit from a reputable source.

Also any manufacturer with the resources can make a white phosphor tube im sure so that will do nothing to tell you who made the tube. Only what type ofphosphor it uses. And it may very well be a crap tube as well. The phosphor type used on the input side of the fiber optic output doesnt at all mean the tube is top of the line or high performance.
Link Posted: 8/26/2017 7:45:10 PM EDT
[#23]
ATN Night Spirit uses what looks like a 9916.
Link Posted: 8/26/2017 8:28:37 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
ATN Night Spirit uses what looks like a 9916.
View Quote
Or it could be a gen 2 or gen 3 10160 f2format tube that is installed to an adapter sleeve and then installed in the housing as was talked about in an earlier section of this thread. You never really know when buying any used unit really, unless you buy it from a reputable person who has the knowledge and experience to identify the used piece of equipment and is able to describe the unit accurately to potential buyers who may be interested. If that isnt the case then asking what tube will be inside any particular used unit will be a mystery until it is in yours or someone who is knowledgable on tubes hand's and can be taken down, the tube removed and identified, the unit itself gone through fully and replacing any bad O-rings or any other missing or damaged internal parts, maintenancing the objective and eyepiece by lubricating the mechanisms and replacing the O-ring seals and reassembling everything using correct procedures for the specific device. This will ensure the used device will perform at its best and you will have the info to ID the tube, if tube is even able to be ID'd, some are really hard to ID as they have no ident label or markings indicating anything on the outside of the boot and without tearing the tube down and seeing the module itself and sometimes the numbers on the module to help ID, then it is otherwise going to remain a mystery. 

The other benefit of performing a complete overhall of a used device that is very popular and has a lot of copy cat units that are being manufactured and sold such as a pvs-14, is that you can likeley identify who made each of the parts making up the unit to see if the unit you got is a genuine OEM product or if you got a unit built with a mix of OEM and non OEM parts or if your used unit is a completely non OEM product that came from a non OEM facility. 
Link Posted: 8/27/2017 8:59:07 AM EDT
[#25]
As I think I mentioned earlier, I'm curious about "knock off" tubes used so that they might be salvaged and used in PVS14 or even MOD3 kits. I've seen some good deals on used ATN equipment on eBay and wonder about getting a couple NVM14s or similar for $600 apiece or so. Then pull the tubes and use these in a binocular set. I could probably recoup some of the cost by selling the ATN housing(s) on the EE or on eBay.
Link Posted: 8/27/2017 9:04:01 AM EDT
[#26]





Here is a photo of a white phosphor tube used in an ATN Night Spirit. I found this device in a pawn shop. Price was $900. I had hoped that, being WPT, the tube would have been useable in a better housing.
Link Posted: 8/27/2017 10:23:53 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/18199/52547587019__3DCAB6AE-278C-4F04-9E4F-452012E3FF5D_JPG1-291614.jpg

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/18199/52547597264__BBFE1D2E-9886-485C-8883-CF81C736DB5F_JPG1-291616.jpg


Here is a photo of a white phosphor tube used in an ATN Night Spirit. I found this device in a pawn shop. Price was $900. I had hoped that, being WPT, the tube would have been useable in a better housing.
View Quote
Just as i was sayng, ATN being so large an entity, they probably have connections in one form or another to every tube manufacturer currently operating on planet earth and source tubes from all of them. That may be an exaggeration, but you get the point right? They gwt so many different tubes feom so many different sources that they often have to have differently designed inner workingsnfornthe same model device. Meaning that a tube in say, ps-22 clip on could be an american made gen 3 or a russian made gen 2. The tubes will have alot of differences in dimensions, and specs and probably evennhowntye tube is hooked up to the housing. So they made two ps-22  versions that from what ive seen look the same pretty much on the outside but inside the designs are very much different. So much so that you cant interchange tubes between the two units. Thats just how it is. Id say most of Atn units are going to have russian made ornsimilar tubes in them and I wouldnt bother with them.ylThat "WPT" tube is deffinitly not a US made tube or european made Photonis or EEV or similar. That tube In  the picture just screams low quality russiann made tube. And its likeley a gen 2 with WP screen. If you can return this thing tonthe pawn shop and get a refund if possible, I highly recommend doing so asap. $900 for that unit and tube is like $600 too much IMO. But maybe that is just me.

As I stated previously any tube manufactuer in exsistence today could in theory manufacture their tubes with WP deposited on the input end of the fiber optic output instead of green, providing they have the resources to do so. So a tube with WP just means that the electrons that have left the channels, on the back side of the MCP, are moving rearward towards the back end of the tube and will hit the input end of the fiber otic output, onto which the phosphor has been depoited and then coated with a conductive material evenly so that HV current can run  through it. When tube is powered the phosphor will convert electrons that interact with it back into photoelectrons that your eye will view as the color of the phosphor used to convert the electron into the photoelectron.  So trying to ID a tube based on the fact that the unit says it is a WP tube is not a very good or practical way to go about it. I guarantee you with ATN you will get many tubes like the one you pictured and likely no tubes that are US or European made if you took apart like 1000 of these WPT units.  I could ve wrong about that but im just trying to convey that mist ATN stuff is going to have rusian made or other similar tubes inside. If you look at a brand new ATN devise with a US made 11769 format pinnacle tube manufactured by ITT/Harris  you will see that the same device may be made with a gen 2 or WPT, CGT ect. If you request quote for all the different versions you will know for sure which ones have the euro and USn tubes inside and the rest will be priced so much lower that it is obvious what you will find inside of them.
Link Posted: 8/27/2017 10:54:06 AM EDT
[#28]
I guess I wasn't clear in my previous post. I didn't buy the device based on what we found inside. I probably would have bought it had it had a slim ANVIS but otherwise no.
Link Posted: 8/27/2017 12:26:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I guess I wasn't clear in my previous post. I didn't buy the device based on what we found inside. I probably would have bought it had it had a slim ANVIS but otherwise no.
View Quote
Ahh ok. Got it. Well a slim ANVIS in gen 2+ or gen 3 made in US or Europe would  have been worth $900 id say, but I suspect a large majority of units will have tubes like this big, ugly, most likely russian made tube that won't fit in much anything else besides the original ATN housing and optics it was inside of when bought brand new.
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top