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Posted: 11/17/2008 8:45:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2008 8:46:54 PM EDT by Green0]
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 9:41:39 PM EDT
Thanks for the info. That's sounds like an almost bulletproof can.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:19:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 9:02:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Green0:The perforated girdle acts as support to the molten hot tube

How do you figure? At "molten hot" temperatures the tube is much stronger than the girdle.

Link Posted: 11/20/2008 9:57:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 9:59:19 AM EDT by Green0]
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 10:44:02 AM EDT
I wonder how good a heat sink the girdle really is. It's welded to the tube and it can't be more than maybe a mm off the tube where it doesn't touch. I would bet it's very close to the same temperature as the rest of the can.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 1:57:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 3:06:40 PM EDT
I would think the design of the girdle would help aid in convection cooling of the can, though to what degree may be insignificant. There is a real fine line between thermal mass and excess weight.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 5:09:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Green0:
Originally Posted By Conqueror:
Originally Posted By Green0:The perforated girdle acts as support to the molten hot tube

How do you figure? At "molten hot" temperatures the tube is much stronger than the girdle.



Well the girdle which is sort of a curved square profile, only contacts the suppressor in a few places and is more massive than the tube, so the tube gets hot, expands and touches the girdle, the girdle is strong, because it's not the same temp, and it sucks heat from the inconel.

I'm sure punching holes in stainless is easier on tooling than inconel, and buying lots of stainless to remove 70% of the material in a lightening/surface area enhancing process is easier than purchasing inconel for the same task.

If I were making the silencer I'd be tempted to use thicker inconel tubing, but maybe that wouldn't do the same thing as what they did. For whatever reason they did what they did, and a lot of money went into R&D so I'm sure what they did made sense.


WTH are you talking about?

Link Posted: 11/20/2008 5:09:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Green0:
It really is.

The perforated girdle acts as support to the molten hot tube, and heat sink due to its massive surface area for cooling. The .300" bore can probably even pass an under stabilized bullet.

It's not the most quiet silencer, with the least flash, or the most accurate, but for durability it's probably still the most durable 5.56 silencer availible.


again wth?
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 5:29:57 PM EDT
Wow, I didn't even notice that part. You think the can expands against the girdle?
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 6:28:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 6:52:19 PM EDT
I appreciated very much the information on the materials. But then you started making dubious speculations, and I questioned that. You get hurt way too easily if you're gonna get all indignant now.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 7:24:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 11:01:28 PM EDT by Green0]
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 4:04:30 AM EDT
The "and dissipates" is the important part there. Without someone blowing cool air across it, I doubt the girdle dissipates more than 1% more heat than a plain tube would.

It's funny how your "industry experts" never get named and are often wrong. I simply asked Trey Knight about it yesterday, it has nothing to do with draining heat. It provides a bit of extra strength and is intended to contain shrapnel if the can fails catastrophically.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 6:20:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Conqueror:
The "and dissipates" is the important part there. Without someone blowing cool air across it, I doubt the girdle dissipates more than 1% more heat than a plain tube would.

It's funny how your "industry experts" never get named and are often wrong. I simply asked Trey Knight about it yesterday, it has nothing to do with draining heat. It provides a bit of extra strength and is intended to contain shrapnel if the can fails catastrophically.


Did Trey design the silencer in question?


Link Posted: 11/21/2008 6:59:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2008 7:00:08 AM EDT by chromeluv]
I own three of these damn things, put thousands of rounds through, and blew out the blast baffle on one, they all get damn hot if you shoot them like they should be shot instead of stare @ them in your safe.

Who cares.

Next.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 8:30:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ian187:
Originally Posted By Conqueror:
The "and dissipates" is the important part there. Without someone blowing cool air across it, I doubt the girdle dissipates more than 1% more heat than a plain tube would.

It's funny how your "industry experts" never get named and are often wrong. I simply asked Trey Knight about it yesterday, it has nothing to do with draining heat. It provides a bit of extra strength and is intended to contain shrapnel if the can fails catastrophically.


Did Trey design the silencer in question?

No, but neither did green0 or his experts. And I find someone whose last name is "Knight" to be a more reliable source of information on their products than some unnamed "experts" who are simply speculating based on what the can looks like ("Gee, that thing is fulla holes, must be a heat sink").

Also, Trey says the girdle is 321SS, not 304.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 10:28:53 AM EDT
If designing a product was a requirement for speaking intelligently about said product you guys wouldn't have much to talk about over here. The girdle serves pretty much the purpose that you guys are mentioning and I'm sure having that much extra material that is in contact with the tube serves as some sort of a heat sink. As to how much heat it draws and at what rate I can not say. Heat transfers and dissipates long after the last round is fired and the time it takes to do this is critical. The girdle is purposeful and adds to the durability of the can. We certainly destroyed some cans to determine it's necessity. It also allows for the use of thinner tubing for the outside of the can. I have seen cans(M4-QDs/NT4s) last less than 10,000 rounds and as much as 30,000 depending on bbl. length and firing schedule. KAC has spent much time as of recent studying heat management and the reasources we have now were not available to us at the time when the M4-QD was designed( by D. Olsen and my dad for those interested). Heat management is certainly a critical part of firearms design .
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 11:14:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 6:57:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Conqueror:
Originally Posted By ian187:
Originally Posted By Conqueror:
The "and dissipates" is the important part there. Without someone blowing cool air across it, I doubt the girdle dissipates more than 1% more heat than a plain tube would.

It's funny how your "industry experts" never get named and are often wrong. I simply asked Trey Knight about it yesterday, it has nothing to do with draining heat. It provides a bit of extra strength and is intended to contain shrapnel if the can fails catastrophically.


Did Trey design the silencer in question?

No, but neither did green0 or his experts. And I find someone whose last name is "Knight" to be a more reliable source of information on their products than some unnamed "experts" who are simply speculating based on what the can looks like ("Gee, that thing is fulla holes, must be a heat sink").

Also, Trey says the girdle is 321SS, not 304.


Actually, the original post was based off what was told to Green0 by "one of the experts", who in this case was the designer of the can.
WTF is your beef with Green0? You seem to take a real interest in attacking him or trying to disprove him with everything he posts. I think people are really getting sick (at least I am) of reading this constant bitch fest with you. Chill out, relax, and grab a beer. I personally know Austin, and he is a stand up guy.
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