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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/25/2006 8:06:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 8:10:36 AM EDT by pcsutton]
Help me decide! I want a .308 that is good for hunting AND target AND tactical use. Considering an M1A with an EOThingy or an AR10 with an EOThingy.b
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:22:58 AM EDT
Well both would work for hunting and tactical shooting, but I would go for the AR-10.

The M1A, unless it is a SOCOM is long and heavy. Plus, if you use a scope instead of a EO tech you will need a cheek rest.

I have a M1A and never take it hunting because it is bulky, and long....and the FAL and HK91s make a better hunting rifle than a M1A IMO.


Take a look at a DPMS .308 AR-10. I think they make a great .308 AR for the money. And they are really accurate.


Chris
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:43:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 7:27:59 PM EDT by Achilles1]
Hunting fine, target shooting fine, but what kind of diversity in tactical use are you looking for that people could help you more. The Eotech's are a great sight picture but have not so great battery life compared to say an Aimpoint if your gonna use it alot and don't want to changeout batteries all the time. If your thinking of one though to go on a semi .308 than your talking mostly closer range shooting with the longer and harder shot's for that setup being out to 400 yards and beyond. In that case you'll get all the range and velocity you need to do pretty much any job with .308/7.62nato(not the same but close of course) in a shorter barrel like an 18 inch and have the shorter more manueverable setup to works better in a CQB tactical situation like defending your home or town. I love the AR feel with the pistol grip and accessories, but not the Stoner gas design system and how it effects the bolt/bolt carrier/receiver. I'd have say a M1A Scout in stock of choice with a good tight lockup like a usgi fiberglass, Smith direct connect vortex, hooded GLFS, and the Eotech or Aimpoint(M3) on a Smith or Sadlak mount should work very well for diversity. Change out the oprod spring guide to a Sadlak NM and the piston to a Sadlak titanium nitride coated and drive on. That should make it very smooth running, reliable in bedding platform, virtually uneffected by weather, tempature and humidity changes and very fast and accurate. It's no heavier than any other rifle system of the same capability unless the difference of a couple of pounds depending on your setup is going make want wish you were at home sitting on the couch eating potato chips scratching your balls becoming a fat tub of lazy shit. Sometimes the good things just take a little more too.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 5:17:14 PM EDT
AR-10, hands down. Want a short barreled carbine in .308 & then want a range tack driver? Then just swap out the upper on an AR-10, can't do that on a M1A. Flat-top allows for a much more stable scope mount than the M1A as well.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 6:57:52 PM EDT
I know others have had luck with them, but I've never seen an AR10 function very well. So my vote is M1A. That being said, I've heard some good things about the DPMS .308's. But have never shot one myself.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 8:06:33 PM EDT
AR10 out of those two.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:57:54 AM EDT
i own both ,wanna buy my ar10?
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 3:04:01 AM EDT
AR10
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 6:17:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:
AR-10, hands down. Want a short barreled carbine in .308 & then want a range tack driver? Then just swap out the upper on an AR-10, can't do that on a M1A. Flat-top allows for a much more stable scope mount than the M1A as well.




Yep



5sub

BTW,
I did actually see one GE Mini Gun for sale. The president of Sonic drive-ins had it and think it went for about $400K.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 6:47:59 AM EDT
while the tradition is very rich with the m14, it has nothing on an AR10, the modularity and evolution of the AR design is far beyod what the m14 is capable of.

i have had an ar10 for about 2 years now and recently aquired and sold a USGI M1A,
early 308AR's had some teething issues, but time and competition fixed those

cant go wrong with Armalite or DPMS, both are great weapons

Link Posted: 2/26/2006 6:51:22 AM EDT
FAL........why limit yourself to those 2 rifles.....the FAL is also battle tested, extremely reliable, cheap to find parts for and cheaper mags than the 2 rifles you have listed (go metric)
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 7:22:51 AM EDT
Gotta go with the AR10.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 11:22:20 AM EDT
FAL
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 11:39:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 11:42:02 AM EDT by Soviet]
GE Mini gun hands down. Range? Accuracy? Nope. You got Probability! 1 out of 4000 aint bad.

I never felt the M1A was bulky and great with irons. I would go with the AR-10.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 11:50:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 11:54:40 AM EDT by Achilles1]

Originally Posted By m4hk33:
while the tradition is very rich with the m14, it has nothing on an AR10, the modularity and evolution of the AR design is far beyod what the m14 is capable of.



That's not really as true anymore. It was a few years ago when there were basically standard Monte Carlo stocks to choose from and a few vertical grips like those of Mcmillan and Law483, but todays M14/M1a's have alot more choices like the Sage system that come with a full quad rail forend to mount pretty anything you want as in an Ar10 with the same forend design and the Sage also comes in a pistol grip rear with adjustable stock for LOP and cheekweld height adjustment.
It also locks the receiver into the stock elimating any concern for bedding issues like in traditional M14 stocks. Troy Industries has also designed a new stock called the Sopmod II that is straight drop in with receiver lockup and turns the M14 platform into a similar feel as an AR10 with rail system and giving it various stock choices, the same optic flat rail stability and different iron sight choices.
The M14 to AR10 modularity differences are far different today than before. You can make it just as accurate to a point that the rifle will shoot far better than most of us ever will making it a moot point of any .25 moa difference if there is any at all and being just as versatile to setup however you'd like it. In the end too, you'd have a steel action compared to an aluminum receiver acton and not the dirty action design of the AR10 with basic cleaning on a regular basis of just the gas system which takes very little time to clean, running the barrel and swabbing out the receiver lightly. Maybe twice a year will you have to take it down for a more thorough cleaning and lubricating for the average user. It can be just about anything you want really and the choices are just getting to be more and better.

Troy Sopmod II

Sage stocks from SecurityArms
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 3:50:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 3:51:24 PM EDT by BobCole]

Originally Posted By Achilles1:

In the end too, you'd have a steel action compared to an aluminum receiver acton and not the dirty action design of the AR10 with basic cleaning on a regular basis of just the gas system which takes very little time to clean, running the barrel and swabbing out the receiver lightly.




Takes me about 20-30 minutes, tops, to thoroughly clean my AR-10. As for the "steel" versus alloy lower, the AR design eliminates the pounding the bolt gives to the lower, the M1A doesn't do that.

Also, while you list a myriad of stock options, you seemingly skip over the quick & easy swap from one upper to another on an AR, i.e. carbine to flat-top long distance shooter. I dare say the M1A can never hope to come even close to duplicating that. The M1A forces a shooter to chose either a scout/carbine or full size & then you're stuck with that choice.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 4:46:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 5:04:24 PM EDT by Achilles1]

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By Achilles1:

In the end too, you'd have a steel action compared to an aluminum receiver acton and not the dirty action design of the AR10 with basic cleaning on a regular basis of just the gas system which takes very little time to clean, running the barrel and swabbing out the receiver lightly.




Takes me about 20-30 minutes, tops, to thoroughly clean my AR-10. As for the "steel" versus alloy lower, the AR design eliminates the pounding the bolt gives to the lower, the M1A doesn't do that.

Also, while you list a myriad of stock options, you seemingly skip over the quick & easy swap from one upper to another on an AR, i.e. carbine to flat-top long distance shooter. I dare say the M1A can never hope to come even close to duplicating that. The M1A forces a shooter to chose either a scout/carbine or full size & then you're stuck with that choice.



Your absolutely right there Bob, I did skip over the quick and easy swap of one upper to another with an Ar10 because it's not that big of a deal the way I see it compared to a good setup Scout or Bush M1A/M14 with a 18 inch that can do both jobs well for what we're talking about. It's shorter in length that makes it more manueverable for close surroundings and will still give you the accuracy and velocity to get round after round out to 800 yards reliably without the need to change uppers. Put a Smith direct connect Vortex on it with either a hooded or nonhooded GLFS and it's almost as short in length as a Socom but still with 18inches of barrel length that in .308/7.62 can make a big difference at longer range. What are you going to carry another upper with you everywhere or would you rather have a rifle that can do more in it's present state. A 18inch AR10 would be capable of the same with a good setup, but it's very much more a personal preference of which operating system you like better these days than how much more one can do than the other. The options are available for both, but if your looking for one rifle that can cover you in as many situations as possible, changing uppers is not really a point. As for the pounding the bolt gives to the receiver in an M14, that's more of a solution looking for a problem as the M14 runs the way it does and does a excellent job of it with years and years of history doing it in the civilian and military world. You can put a buffer in if someone were to worry about it, but keeping a good op rod spring in the rifle is more important. They only need to be changed after thousands of rounds or when they wear out, but if you use Tubb's chrome silicon's than more than likely alot longer than a standard usgi spring besides.hinking.gif

Tubb's springs
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 5:06:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Achilles1:
I see it compared to a good setup Scout or Bush M1A/M14 with a 18 inch that can do both jobs well for what we're talking about. It's shorter in length that makes it more manueverable for close surroundings and will still give you the accuracy and velocity to get round after round out to 800 yards reliably without the need to change uppers.





Maybe, maybe not. I'd like to see it done first, IMO. No offense.


Link Posted: 2/26/2006 6:06:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By Achilles1:
I see it compared to a good setup Scout or Bush M1A/M14 with a 18 inch that can do both jobs well for what we're talking about. It's shorter in length that makes it more manueverable for close surroundings and will still give you the accuracy and velocity to get round after round out to 800 yards reliably without the need to change uppers.





Maybe, maybe not. I'd like to see it done first, IMO. No offense.





I understand and no offense taken or meant myself. There are 18inch barreled M14's being used everyday in Iraq actually out to 800yards and more with Smith Enterprises modifying many of them. Sr420 has always had a nice Scout that he has been moving forward with for a while now that is a nice civilian example to share. He's also setup a nice site to see and read about it.
Smith has recently made an 18inch barrel that is being used in the military and available to civilians, but that is not to take away from the accuracy that a Springfield barrel can also have. Springfield uses chrome-moly Wilson blanks and turns them in house. I do like and always have liked the feel of the m16/ar style rifles having used M16's and M4's while I was in the military, I just have never liked the way action runs and there have been well documented problems with it, not to say that it still is not a good rifle. Both platforms can be good and serve a person well for many different uses it's just what you decide to choose. Hopefully this will help PCSutton decide which one is for him.

SR420's

http://www.smithenterprise.com/imagesprod/CL_18bbl_Retail.lg.jpg

Smith Enterprises
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 7:36:08 AM EDT
Wait a few months and get the Leitner-Wise .308 piston upper for the DPMS rifle. Then add a silencer to it. Everything I've read says the M1A is not a good suppressed platform.

That said, buy both. No collection is complete without an M1A!

bp
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 5:01:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 5:07:29 PM EDT by JackBurton]
LRB M14SA...all the way baby!

www.lrbarms.com

Its hammer forged not cast, just like the real M14s were. If you buy the complete rifle, its all USGI except for the barrel (Criterion) and the flash hider. Yes it costs more but if you must have the best...

BTW, they also make a very nice AR15 reciever!
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 5:11:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VTwin60:
FAL



+1

But out of those two choices. AR-10
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