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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/8/2005 9:35:22 AM EDT
I have an issued M14 (registered on a Form 10, surplus from DRMO). My M4 has reached a state of perfection, and now I am tinkering with the M14 on my off time. So far I have chopped about 4" off the stock for body armor, added an EOTech on a forward scout mount, and camoed the whole thing. I have my boss halfway talked into springing for a couple of Sage stocks in the Fall when the new budget kicks in.

I would like to install a full-auto selector on it. More for fun than any real-world application, as I never use the FA on my M4 except on the range, and I would probably NEVER use FA on the M14 (unless our fair city is being attacked by a human-wave attack of killer Al Qaeda zombies or some other unlikely scenario). All these M14s, and at least one ought to rock and roll, or so my thinking goes.

Anyhow, my searches for parts, as of yet, have proved relatively fruitless. I have taken the SEMI selctor off and re-installed it easily enough with the normal punch set. What parts do I need and where can I get them? What are the steps for installing them?
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 1:33:02 PM EDT
Bumpage.

This already a registered MG, but they ship from Anniston (or Rock Island, I forget which) with the SEMI selctors installed.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 2:08:22 PM EDT
Go here...


You need 1ea of the following item #'s-----------


410630---------Selector

410610---------Selector pin

410640---------Selector spring


Link Posted: 8/8/2005 2:13:51 PM EDT
Jeez, I must have the wrong job. I can't even get a new chair or bring in my own without authorization...
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 2:26:00 PM EDT
What he said (the guy on parts) as for them going in, they go in real easy, I had a TRW and a Winchester a couple years back, real fun, though absolutely useless on FA, I'd be more scared of soemone whootign at me with a semi than FA Muzzle climb was very interesting. If you cna get the semi parts off you can get the FA parts on
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 2:57:44 PM EDT
Thank you.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 10:38:04 AM EDT
I've been wantingto get an M-14 through DRMO could you tell me what process you went through to find it and purchase it? Any help you can give me your be much appreciated!!
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 11:30:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aggieairman:
I've been wantingto get an M-14 through DRMO could you tell me what process you went through to find it and purchase it? Any help you can give me your be much appreciated!!



Natez says he has an "issued M14" . . . which means that he works for an LE Agency that qualifies to participate in a 1033 program. What that means is that his LE Agency can take possession of certain excess DOD equipment for official use.

In practical terms, it means that the uber-citizens of US Law Enforcement get a free pass to "own" (not really, but I am sure that plenty of Sheriffs and Chiefs reward their cronies) M14s and M16s out of Gov't stocks as long as they work for their Agency.

Would the NYPD do that? Hell no! BUT, I am sure that there are plenty of little agencies out there where the supervisors are more than willing to sign off on their LEOs getting whatever LE discounts they want on a wide variety of "LE-Only" stuff that really won't be used in the line-of-duty, but will merely be for recreation and fun. It's only a step further to use the agency as a front for LEOs to "own" M14s and M16s, and for the agency to purchase other NFA items w/ the officers' money (owned by the department, but "owned" by the LEOs).

Cynical? Yes, but I know plenty of LEOs and agencies that do just what I describe.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:07:23 PM EDT
Fulton Armory has all you need
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:48:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:

Originally Posted By Aggieairman:
I've been wantingto get an M-14 through DRMO could you tell me what process you went through to find it and purchase it? Any help you can give me your be much appreciated!!



Natez says he has an "issued M14" . . . which means that he works for an LE Agency that qualifies to participate in a 1033 program. What that means is that his LE Agency can take possession of certain excess DOD equipment for official use.

In practical terms, it means that the uber-citizens of US Law Enforcement get a free pass to "own" (not really, but I am sure that plenty of Sheriffs and Chiefs reward their cronies) M14s and M16s out of Gov't stocks as long as they work for their Agency.

Would the NYPD do that? Hell no! BUT, I am sure that there are plenty of little agencies out there where the supervisors are more than willing to sign off on their LEOs getting whatever LE discounts they want on a wide variety of "LE-Only" stuff that really won't be used in the line-of-duty, but will merely be for recreation and fun. It's only a step further to use the agency as a front for LEOs to "own" M14s and M16s, and for the agency to purchase other NFA items w/ the officers' money (owned by the department, but "owned" by the LEOs).

Cynical? Yes, but I know plenty of LEOs and agencies that do just what I describe.



Partially correct.

The weapon is from the 1033 Program.

It is still a registered MG. It is issued to me, like all of my other gear. It belongs (like all of my other gear) to my agency. I take it home every night (like all of my other gear, including the car). It still belongs to my agency, and more indirectly to the taxpayers in my community.

There is no lawful way to "reward" anyone with a post-86 MG. This belongs to the government. The 1033 Program has even sent folks to check on the weapons. Any podunk agencies that attempted such a stunt would wind up with the involved parties in federal "pound-you-in-the-ass-prison."

There is no individual discount on this stuff. The agencies get them dirt cheap, but an individual officer may NEVER own one of these weapons.

Now, when we traded in our SIGs for the newer rail models a couple fo years ago, I got pretty nice deals on my two issued handguns, but it was about the same price you would have paid to get used SIGs from CDNN or any of the other big supply houses. These of course had sentimental value for me, but I will never be able to do the same with my issued M4 or M14 unless the roll back 922(o), DRMS has some policy changes, and my agency changes policy. And none of those things are very likely to happen, let alone all three.

If your agency wants M14s from the government, go to 1033 Program, look up your state coordinator and he will send you everything you need to get your agency signed up. Oh, and they are running out of M16A1s.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 11:13:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ShakenNotStirred:
Natez says he has an "issued M14" . . . which means that he works for an LE Agency that qualifies to participate in a 1033 program. What that means is that his LE Agency can take possession of certain excess DOD equipment for official use.

In practical terms, it means that the uber-citizens of US Law Enforcement get a free pass to "own" (not really, but I am sure that plenty of Sheriffs and Chiefs reward their cronies) M14s and M16s out of Gov't stocks as long as they work for their Agency.

Would the NYPD do that? Hell no! BUT, I am sure that there are plenty of little agencies out there where the supervisors are more than willing to sign off on their LEOs getting whatever LE discounts they want on a wide variety of "LE-Only" stuff that really won't be used in the line-of-duty, but will merely be for recreation and fun. It's only a step further to use the agency as a front for LEOs to "own" M14s and M16s, and for the agency to purchase other NFA items w/ the officers' money (owned by the department, but "owned" by the LEOs).



Please re-read what I wrote. Please also pay attention to the use of quotation marks to indicate sarcasm/irony/humor (as a form of general usage in the English language).


Originally Posted By natez:
Partially correct.

The weapon is from the 1033 Program.

It is still a registered MG. It is issued to me, like all of my other gear. It belongs (like all of my other gear) to my agency. I take it home every night (like all of my other gear, including the car). It still belongs to my agency, and more indirectly to the taxpayers in my community.

There is no lawful way to "reward" anyone with a post-86 MG. This belongs to the government. The 1033 Program has even sent folks to check on the weapons. Any podunk agencies that attempted such a stunt would wind up with the involved parties in federal "pound-you-in-the-ass-prison."

There is no individual discount on this stuff. The agencies get them dirt cheap, but an individual officer may NEVER own one of these weapons.



Now that you've re-read my original post, you'll see that I was 100% correct . . .

- The Mayberry PD gets M14s and M16s from a 1033 program (even though they really don't need them) for use in their "Law Enforcement Training Activities" (which will be going to the range and having fun w/ NFA weapons that "civilians" can't own) because Sherriff Andy signs off saying that they are needed/required

- Sherriff Andy decides that Officer Fife is a great guy, and even though there's no way in hell that Andy is going to let Fife carry that M14 in his cruiser, Fife (who is only 25yo) will have that M14 tucked away in his gun cabinet at home for the next twenty years (to be legally used AS IF he were the actual owner of the weapon) as long as Andy keeps all of the documents straight and the weapon accounted for

- Andy also decides that Fife shouldn't pay $1200 for a new Colt LE6920 (Law Enforcement Carbine), so he signs another letter letting Fife buy it w/o FET for around $950 (which Fife will own outright)

- And of course, since Fife is an active LEO in Mayberry, his Mayberry LE ID allows him to CCW in all 50 States!

- When Fife retires, as long as Mayberry updates his ID and allows him to qualify, he can continue to CCW in all 50 States!

None of the above is illegal. It is all within the purview of an LEA supervisor to authorize and approve. However, it is truly disgusting at the amount of power and privilege that accrue to the civilian law enforcement bodies in the USA (and YES, they are CIVILIANS). The reason, of course, is that liberals can always throw LE a bone (ie, a new privilege) IOT gain their support for further suppressing the rights of the rest of the citizenry.

Natez, whether YOUR kit (belt, pistol, holsters, etc) are owned by you or your LEA is irrelevant. In plenty of LEAs, you may own and use your own kit. The idea here is that stuff that is owned BY THE LEA can be de facto "OWNED" (ie, YOUR belt, YOUR pistol, YOUR holster) by the person that it is ISSUED to. You are free to shoot YOUR issued pistol at the range on weekends, yes? You are free to shoot YOUR issued M14 at the range on weekends, yes?

It's a travesty. In my line of work, I cannot take my M4 and M9 home w/ me at night, nor can I shoot them at the range whenever I want. It should be the same for issued firearms for LEOs.

Shaken Not Stirred (NOT a civilian)

Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:34:24 AM EDT
I didn't get to take any weapons home when I was a lowly Specialist, many, many years ago.

Police work is a tad different. I am armed always, because I also have a legal duty to act in many situations (and a duty under policy). Citizens in our state have pretty much the same right under CHLs. They can also own NFA stuff here. The process for us is EXACTLY the same for buying personal NFA stuff; Form 4, fingerprint cards, submission for CLEO signature, citizenship forms, passport photos etc. My Chief signs for all of the other citizens, so I didn't get any breaks on my recent NFA acquisition (suppressor), which is waiting at the dealer for my Form 4 to come back.

Yes I can shoot my issued weapons off-duty. Heck, they even give me as much ammo as I can reasonably shoot. Of course, they have a vested interest in making sure that I can shoot, as they can get their a** sued off if I can't.

Only the agency gets the FET break on weapons and ammo. In order for an FET weapon to be transferred to an individual (either an officer or anyone else) it has to be in "bona fide use" by the agency for at least a year. I know, because I had to turn in a "Staff Study" when we purchased our SIGs, including letters from BATFE and an accountant (sales tax issues). The letter from your agency to "allow" you to buy a personal-use Colt LE carbine is a Colt internal thing, now that the AWB is gone. Just buy Bushmaster instead. That kind of makes sense, when you think about it, as governmental entities don't pay taxes to each other.

I only have issued NFA because I do tactical stuff. The moment I quit that, or get too old and slow to pass a PT Test, or any of a host of other reasons, it goes back in the Armory to go to a younger cop, and I get an 870 again (maybe one of the new carbines if I am lucky, or at least a converted M16 that fires SEMI only). The vast majority of our NFA is LL munitions that happen to count as DDs. Other than that (and actually for most of that, too) SWAT guys are the only ones who carry any NFA gear, SEMI M16A1s that are still legally MGs notwithstanding, and from an economic standpoint, we would be stupid not to get as many $27 Patrol Rifles as we can, and Mayberry needs Patrol Rifles, too.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:26:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By natez:
I didn't get to take any weapons home when I was a lowly Specialist, many, many years ago.



As we're moving away from M1s/M1As/M14s, please IM me your email address.



Police work is a tad different. I am armed always, because I also have a legal duty to act in many situations (and a duty under policy). Citizens in our state have pretty much the same right under CHLs.



Except for the fact the off-duty, on vacation, in NYC, or DC, or Baltimore, or Los Angeles, YOU can carry your pistol concealed! AND, you are not duty-bound by the law permitting that to ACT as a LEO. That law was passed to provide LEOs a great degree of security when they leave their home states for personal reasons. There was certainly noise made about it offering a greater number of "qualified" (which, I am sure you would agree w/ me that LEOs greatly vary in skill and proficiency w/ their weapons) individuals out there to stop crimes or acts of terrorism during their commission . . . BUT, that isn't WHY this law was passed.



I only have issued NFA because I do tactical stuff. The moment I quit that, or get too old and slow to pass a PT Test, or any of a host of other reasons, it goes back in the Armory to go to a younger cop, and I get an 870 again (maybe one of the new carbines if I am lucky, or at least a converted M16 that fires SEMI only).



I applaud your agency for having such strict requirements (and keeping NFA out of the hands of Barney Fife) . . . but AGAIN, I am sure you realize that there are plenty of smaller rural and suburban departments out there where the "good old boy" network will allow officers and deputies to take massive advantage of the system to become the de facto owners of a variety of NFA weapons and other discounted firearms through the powers and privileges of their LEA.


SWAT guys are the only ones who carry any NFA gear, SEMI M16A1s that are still legally MGs notwithstanding, and from an economic standpoint, we would be stupid not to get as many $27 Patrol Rifles as we can, and Mayberry needs Patrol Rifles, too.


Logistically, I certainly agree. However, I still question a regular LEO needing his patrol rifle in his possession when off-duty unless he has specified responsibilities (SWAT, etc).

I will only be happy when the certifiably law-abiding who have objectively demonstrated responsibility and skill with arms enabled to exercise their RIGHTS to the same extent that LEOs are enabled to exercise the PRIVILEGES.

Shaken Not Stirred
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 7:42:30 AM EDT
how is the m-14 different from the m1a? is it just the receiver?
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:55:54 PM EDT
I'm familier with the program I wasn't sure if that's what you were refering to or not when you mean issued or weather you bought it through some little known program the the us gonernment has. and I also had an M-14 still wish I had that sucker too served me well and never faild to do it's job!!


AggieSgt
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:57:04 PM EDT
I'm glad to hear the they are running out of m-16a1's lol man I hated that weapon!!!
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:13:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
how is the m-14 different from the m1a? is it just the receiver?



Boiling it all down, a government M14 receiver has a selector lug and two operating rod rail machining cuts the semi-automatic commercial M1A/M14 receivers do not have. The selector lug is what allows the select fire components to be attached to the receiver. Once that is done, the rifle becomes capable of automatic fire.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:13:08 PM EDT
Selector parts arrived today from Numrich and installed without any difficulty. It passed a function check just fine, with the hammer not falling until the bolt rotated down and into battery.

I'll fire it up on Wednesday during my weekly range time and report back. Thanks to all who helped.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:24:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:21:22 PM EDT
Yeah, you could say that the typical US infantryman in the '60s didn't share your build. Makes a difference.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:09:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:45:33 PM EDT
Time for a range report.

The chopped stock really makes a difference for controlling and handling the rifle, especially when wearing armor. With that and the forward-mounted EOTech, the whole set up handles much better for what we do than before.

I fired three magazines on AUTO after I got there and got the range set up, before anyone else showed up. I immediately decided to limit myself to three round bursts, not wanting the subsequent rounds to blow holes in the girders at the top of the bullet trap. Three round bursts were easy to get, but hard to keep on target. I started at 50 yards, and moved up to 25 before I got through the first magazine, and then moved to 15. Out of the 60 rounds in the first three magazines, I got 49 in the "bad guy" with another 5 on the target but misses (though to give myself credit, three of those were low rounds from over correcting and would have hit the target in the legs, if it had them). This was using a very aggressive stance with a lot more emphasis on good stance and recoil control than I do with the M4 (guess I was getting sloppy).

Several of my troops showed up for pistol time and because I promised to have "a couple of machineguns at the range." They all immensely enhjoyed the M14, though I wouldn't let anyone shoot it until they got a five-minute "long gun stance 101" lecture and put some rounds through the M4. It really demonstrated the importance of good stance, as one of the guys got sloppy, started to blade and chicken wing, and subsequently had several 1-hit three round bursts at 10 yards.

Even the rangemaster (from another agency) got into the action, ripping off a magazine at 50 yards (and hitting a girder, BTW).

All in all, FA on an M14 is fun, but I can't see much tactical utility for us. But it was still fun. And for the record, the $15 worth of parts were out of my pocket and are my "donation" to the Armory for the year.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:49:45 PM EDT
Good to hear it worked out for you!


You might think about trying one of these-----------www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=548800&chrSuperSKU=&MC=


They were used on the E2's. It slips over flash hider and is retained by the bayo lug. The combo tool is used to tighten it.


Or you might try the muzzle brake that Springfield Inc installs on the Scout rifle. Check with any coworkers who have M1A's and replaced the MB with a flash hider.
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