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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 7/2/2002 2:22:49 AM EDT
I have some like new Colt PRE-BAN lowers I'm considering trading in the next month for a Class 3. I've never sold or traded a lower, but what should I ask on them? Here is what I have. All of them are just like new to excellent condition.

Sporter Target
Sporter Competition HBAR
AR-15 A2
SP1 Carbine
Sporter Lightweight .223
Sporter Lightweight 7.62 x 39
AR-15 A2 Govt


Link Posted: 7/2/2002 4:14:56 AM EDT
You do know that lowers without the pre-ban features attached are no longer pre-bans when you sell them right? They have to be complete rifles when you bought them and when you sell them or they are no longer pre-ban.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 4:17:47 AM EDT
uh, what?

as far as the price- do them at $20 each, i'll take all of them!
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 5:33:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
You do know that lowers without the pre-ban features attached are no longer pre-bans when you sell them right? They have to be complete rifles when you bought them and when you sell them or they are no longer pre-ban.



Unless I'm completely mistaken, this is not correct. Once a firearm (receiver) is grandfathered, it is grandfathered for the life of the firearm. In order for it to be grandfathered, the ATF's opinion (has NOT been tested in a court of law) is that it needed to be in a configuration that would have classified it as a semi-automatic assault weapon prior to 9/14/94. As long as it was in such a configuration prior to that date, you're good to go - it doesn't make any difference regarding its grandfathered status what configuration it may have been changed to since then or what configuration it is in when sold.

Rocko
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 5:36:38 AM EDT
I've seen them from $700 to $1000 for Colt lowers. Any higher most people will pass. If
its lower than this some people will wonder whats wrong with it or how much refinishing it needs.
email me when you decide to sell. I'd like a Colt lower.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:19:34 AM EDT
i would say around 8 each. you coul maybe get more, but they will move at 8, nd still make you lots o cash.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 1:09:50 PM EDT

Also, the ones he has that are specifically marked "AR-15" are "assult-weapons by name", no matter what.


I have a pre-ban Colt Sporter target model and it isn't rollmarked "AR-15".
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 1:19:22 PM EDT
This was posted a couple of months ago by another member:

"This refers to your letter of March 19, 2001, in which you ask about the status of certain semiautomatic assault weapons which have been altered to another configuration.

As defined in section 921(a)(30), of Title 18, United States Code (U.S.C:), the term "semiautomatic assaultic weapon" includes certain named weapons and certain semiautomatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns that have a combination of enumerated features. Title 18 U.S.C. section 922(v)(1) prohibits manufacture, transfer, and possession of semiautomatic assault weapons; however, section 922(v)(2) provides that any semiautomatic assault weapon that was lawfully possessed under Federal law on September 13, 1994, is excluded from the prohibition.

A frame or receiver of a semiautomatic assault weapon, meets the definition of a "firearm" in 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(3); however, a firearm frame or receiver alone, without the additional qualifying features, does not meet the definition of a "semiautomatic assault weapon" in section 921(a)(30). Therefore, a firearm frame or receiver does not meet the exemption in section 922(v)(2).

We have also determined that a semiautomatic assault weapon in knockdown (unassembled) condition consisting of a receiver and all parts needed to assemble a complete semiautomatic assault weapon are subject to regulation if the parts are segregated or packaged together and held by a person as the parts for the assembly of a particular firearm.

You describe an AR15 type rifle that met the definition of a semiautomatic assault weapon and was lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994. At some subsequent time the rifle was temporarily reassembled in a configuration such that it no longer had the qualifying features of a semiautomatic assault weapon. You asked if the original components could then be lawfully reinstalled on the rifle.

Provided that the original components were held by the owner and reinstalled on the rifle, it is our opinion that the rifle would still qualify as an exempted semiautomatic assault weapon even though it had been temporarily assembled in a different configuration. We note, that mere disassembly of a semiautomatic weapon by an owner would not remove the firearm from the definition of a semiautomatic assault weapon nor would the reassembly constitute manufacture of a prohibited semiautomatic
assault weapon.



CONTINUED...

Link Posted: 7/2/2002 1:20:15 PM EDT
Your second question concerns a semiautomatic assault weapon that also meets the exemption in section 922(v)(2). However, this firearm was disassembled and the receiver, without other components, was sold. Since the receiver is no longer possessed with all parts necessary to assemble a complete semiautomatic assault weapon, it no longer meets the definition of a semiautomatic assault weapon. The receiver does not meet the exemption in section 922(v)(2) and assembly of this firearm in the configuration of a semiautomatic assault weapon would be prohibited under section 922(v)(1).

If you are interested in determining the status of a particular receiver or semiautomatic assault weapon, you should contact the manufacturer or importer and ask about the date that it was manufactured and the configuration at the time of sale. It may also be necessary to contact subsequent dealers and owners who possessed the firearm.

We regret the delay in responding to your inquiry. If you have further questions concerning this matter, please contact us.

Sincerely yours,
Curtis H.A. Bartlett"


I feel that it would be hard for the government to prove that a grandfathered pre-ban AR-15 was disassembled and reassembled. Hundreds of pre-ban lowers are sold yearly, with no consequences.

Secondly I would think that if the lower had a telestock and pistol grip, that would be enough for it to retain its grandfathered status regardless.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 2:05:05 PM EDT
So, if the seller, just happened to have the parts, that qualify it as a semi-automatic assualt weapon. He coulld put them on the rifle and sell it to you - then from the goodness of your heart, you could remove the, collapsible stock and upper (with evil features) put your evil features on the rifle, then give the other parts back. Viola, should be a totally legal pre-ban!
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 3:36:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR308and223:
So, if the seller, just happened to have the parts, that qualify it as a semi-automatic assualt weapon. He coulld put them on the rifle and sell it to you - then from the goodness of your heart, you could remove the, collapsible stock and upper (with evil features) put your evil features on the rifle, then give the other parts back. Viola, should be a totally legal pre-ban!



Basically that could be done. If the lower isn't marked AR-15 and it has changed hands (since it was made) without the evil features it isn't considered a pre-ban anymore. Just another way the ATF decided to reduce the number of evil rifles in the country. Just think of all the poor bastards who bought pre-ban lowers before the ATF made this ruling.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 5:05:02 PM EDT
No, I think M4Madness has it right; an AR-15 lower by itself, that meets the assault rifle definition (a rifle that can accept detachable magazines, which it still technicall can), configured with a collapsable stock (making it have more than one evil feature - the pistol grip and the collapsable stock) is STILL PREBAN, even without the upper. As I understand the definition according to the BATF, more than 1 evil feature = preban. As long as it's sold with the collapsable stock, you're golden.

God I love loopholes.
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