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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/19/2002 1:55:46 PM EDT
Ok, I've been all around town, poking my head into many gunshops, and have narrowed down my choice of concealed carry gun to two: Springfield Armory Ultra compact .45 (NOT the "decked out" model) and the Sig P239 .40S&W. I just have a soft spot in the heart for the 1911/.45, but the double action trigger pull on the Sig was, well, awesome. Beats the hell out of my Beretta. Have pretty much ruled out Glocks, so save the comments on those. Why? Ugliest gun on the market,IMHO. I like a little style and grace, OK? Any experience/comments on either of the two would be appreciated.
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 1:57:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 2:00:43 PM EDT
Glock 27- who gives a rat's ass how it looks, it is there to defend your life, not impress the bad guys.
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 2:05:36 PM EDT
Ok this is apples and oranges. A SA 45 VS a DA 40 S&W. If you like cocked and locked with one trigger pull to master... If you only feel safe carrying with NO SAFETY to operate and can master two trigger pulls then ...
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 2:06:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2002 2:38:27 PM EDT by A2cat-man]
Para-Ordnance C7-45LDA. I carry a Para-Ordnance P12 and my lovely bride carries a Glock 36.
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 2:47:57 PM EDT
I give a rat's ass how it looks. If a .40S&W comes out of a Glock or a Sig and connects center mass, what difference does it make other than how I feel about the gun? I kinda figured I'd get this type of response from Glock owners, even though my thread asks for opinions on SA and Sig. Don't get me wrong here, Glocks are fine firearms. I see guys at the range that shoot them like they were born with them in their hands. I also see guys shoot OTHER brands the same way. I ain't too shabby with my Beretta, even double action. Maybe you guys don't like Fords or Chevys for some reason-this applies to me with Glocks. Everygoddamnbody and their brother has a Glock. I want something different, OK? I'm convinced that you're proud as hell of your Glock. I'm looking for opinions on Sig and Springfield Armory.
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 2:54:49 PM EDT
Any of them would be good choices.
I carried a slicked up colt officers model for years. IWB holster. It kept getting rust spots where the pistol touched my skin.
I now carry a glock 30 (45cal) It is an ugly assed gun. But it works flawlessly and doesn't rust. I would recommend a stainless pistol, or one with a robar or similar finish.

I love the single action springfields and sigs.

My .02 cuz you asked.
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 2:55:12 PM EDT
Pick the pistol that fits your hand and point naturally. I carry a Colt Officers or a Glock depending on my mood. The choice of a carry gun is a personal one (unles you're a LEO I suppose). If it feels good in the hand,points naturally and is a quality made pistol it really doesn't matter who makes it. Buy it, practice with it, and carry it.

Link Posted: 3/19/2002 2:56:32 PM EDT
Get the 1911 you wont be disappointed. The 1911 is the most comfortable carry gun there is. Thats only my opinion though.
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 3:03:33 PM EDT
Gamesniper:

I've owned a Sig P239 for years now and it's by far my favorite carry gun. I've put about 2500 rounds through it so far with ZERO malfunctions. I also bought a 357sig barrel for it so now I have two calibers to play with.

I also carry a Colt Defender, which is very small but I prefer the Sig due to its smooth edges and VERY small grips. This little powerhouse disappears under a light shirt. I know I have a very good caliber in a highly dependable package that is easy to conceal. Plus I like the trigger on the little Sig.

If you buy the Sig I know you'll like it.
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 3:12:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gamesniper:
Ok, I've been all around town, poking my head into many gunshops, and have narrowed down my choice of concealed carry gun to two: Springfield Armory Ultra compact .45 (NOT the "decked out" model) and the Sig P239 .40S&W. I just have a soft spot in the heart for the 1911/.45, but the double action trigger pull on the Sig was, well, awesome. Beats the hell out of my Beretta. Have pretty much ruled out Glocks, so save the comments on those. Why? Ugliest gun on the market,IMHO. I like a little style and grace, OK? Any experience/comments on either of the two would be appreciated.



I recently replaced my P232 with the Springfield Lightweight (aluminum frame) Ultra Compact. I found the P232 super comfortable to carry but was dissapointed with the trigger and wanting somthing beefier than the .380.

I don't have alot of range time with the Ultra Compact yet. However, so far I am happy with it. I was originally interested in the Mil-Spec Ultra Compact. It was $130 cheaper and still has a nice trigger feel. I opted for the "loaded" cause I could get the aluminum frame and lose 6oz.

A friend carries a P239 in 9mm. I've shot it extensively. The P239 does have a decent trigger for a DA, (especially compared to the P232!). For a compact auto, I was more than happy with the 50' groups. As far as belt loop carry, the P239 is kind of "tall". I think the ultra carry would be easier to conceal and more comfortable to carry.

Back to your question.............
How comfortable are you with de-cocking the .45?

This is a tough one, I know I have not really offered you much to sway your opinion.
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 3:16:58 PM EDT
If you have access to gun rentals, or friend who carry either of the guns go out and shoot them both, then decide.

I have shot glocks, sig, and 1911's, all are good guns. I carry a full size Springfield everyday. love it. Chose what is best for you and the one you will carry all the time. It does you no good if you carry it for a few weeks, then leave it at home because you don not like it. Plus if you go to sell it then you have lost value on the gun. as the knight said in Indy and the last crusade: choose wisely.
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 3:27:20 PM EDT
Try taking a look at the H&K P2000. It will be available in September. Is certainly going to be my next purchase!
W
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 3:32:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By waltere:
Try taking a look at the H&K P2000. It will be available in September. Is certainly going to be my next purchase!
W



You're going to wait till next September to buy another gun? Where do you find your control?
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 3:32:53 PM EDT
here you go, I've just what you need ....

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=96043

Finest 1911 built.


BTW I carry a G19
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 3:33:31 PM EDT
I can't believe no one has said............

............BOTH !

One at a time of corse.
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 4:01:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gamesniper:
I give a rat's ass how it looks. If a .40S&W comes out of a Glock or a Sig and connects center mass, what difference does it make other than how I feel about the gun? I kinda figured I'd get this type of response from Glock owners, even though my thread asks for opinions on SA and Sig. Don't get me wrong here, Glocks are fine firearms. I see guys at the range that shoot them like they were born with them in their hands. I also see guys shoot OTHER brands the same way. I ain't too shabby with my Beretta, even double action. Maybe you guys don't like Fords or Chevys for some reason-this applies to me with Glocks. Everygoddamnbody and their brother has a Glock. I want something different, OK? I'm convinced that you're proud as hell of your Glock. I'm looking for opinions on Sig and Springfield Armory.



Well, I'm a Glock owner and carry a G30 and I love it. But sticking with your original question of 1911 or Sig... I give my vote to the Sig. I too love their trigger pull. I also like the higher ammo capacity than a 1911. A compact 1911 with 6+1 or 7+1 capacity just seems too low for me. Why not use a revolver at that point IMHO? So I go for something that I can carry more rounds than I think I might ever possibly need.

But I think the real answer is this: Which one of the two choices do you A) Shoot most accurately with, B) Is most comfortable to carry. If one or the other satisfies both A and B then there is your answer. If each is better at one than the other then that's a tough call. I chose the G30 because I shoot it more accurately than a 9mm or .40 but it is a bit thicker so it is harder to conceal. But a concealed weapon does me no good if I can't place my shots well with it. Hope that helps. Good luck.
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 4:14:35 PM EDT
Thanks, guys, I truly appreciate the input. I already have a 1911 (actually a 1991) but I'm selling it to buy the new concealed carry piece. I'll be looking to aquire a better 1911 type next year, but I'm selling this one to my recently-changed-his-mind-about guns brother. I'm also looking for something that doesn't weigh me down at the beltline, like a fully loaded, full sized 1911. As far as de-cocking goes, no problem, I'm real confident and safe about it. As I stated, the 1911 will always be close to my heart, and I'll get another. The Sig fits my hand REALLY well, is smaller than my Beretta (the 92FS sticks out the bottom of most of my jackets with a Fobus paddle holster) and again, the DA trigger pull is sweet.Right now, it looks like the Sig. Again, thanks for the input.
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 4:49:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gamesniper:
Ok, I've been all around town, poking my head into many gunshops, and have narrowed down my choice of concealed carry gun to two: Springfield Armory Ultra compact .45 (NOT the "decked out" model) and the Sig P239 .40S&W. I just have a soft spot in the heart for the 1911/.45, but the double action trigger pull on the Sig was, well, awesome. Beats the hell out of my Beretta. Have pretty much ruled out Glocks, so save the comments on those. Why? Ugliest gun on the market,IMHO. I like a little style and grace, OK? Any experience/comments on either of the two would be appreciated.



Look at the Sig p220. It is light and the controls are placed well. I don't think the trigger is all that good on my Sig but sure bets a glock any day, or about any other non-tuned trigger.
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 5:07:16 PM EDT
Someone has already said to shoot both and decide then. I second the motion. If you can take both to the range at the same time one will stand out and you will never have to second guess your decision.
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 5:09:04 PM EDT
OK, just one mans opinion, for concealed carry and home defence, the ideal round is the .357 and in the small holser at my waist is a Taurus mod.650 revolver. compact, light weight, and packs enough punch to knock down a scumbag and not poke holes in the walls, cars or innocent bystanders (well, not too bad anyway). dont get me wrong, I love my Springfield 1911, and my Smith mod. 5906 9mm (purchased long before Smith caved to the govt.) but for C/C you just cant beat the compact wheel guns.
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 5:19:35 PM EDT
I might be out of the norm but I carry the Ruger P95. Light effective and inexpensive. I paid less than $300 for it brand new. I know what you are thinking, that a 9mm isn't the right caliber but with Black Talons I belive it will work fine.

Bob B
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 5:55:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2002 5:56:22 PM EDT by AJohnston]
Between the two choices you have presented I would pick the Springfield, although I prefer 1911s in a full size all steel version. When I began carrying a firearm on a daily basis I chose a Sig but I soon switched to a 1911. The single action trigger pull of the 1911is far more conducive to precise shooting but any gun can be learned and shot well... it only takes practice.

As far as what gun is best for you no one but yourself can decide that. Any recommendation made to you is nothing but speculation. Go out rent both guns and shoot them both to find out what you really like. Choose the largest gun you can conceal well and shoot effectively. What ever you decide make sure you get a good sturdy carry rig to tote your new blaster and most importantly practice regularly. Far too many people buy a gun and assume they will know how to use it effectively in a fight employing the adage that a personal defense gun is carried allot and shot a little. Not so. Your carry gun is nothing more than an expensive belt ornament if you don’t learn how to use it. So no matter what you buy do your self a favor and practice, practice, practice because for the task at hand the tool is largely inconsequential as long as the shooter knows how to use it. One may shoot gun ’x’ better than gun ’y’ but as long as one knows how to use a weapon in a fight the weapon type won’t make any difference.
Link Posted: 3/19/2002 6:31:57 PM EDT


I also like the higher ammo capacity than a 1911. A compact 1911 with 6+1 or 7+1 capacity just seems too low for me. Why not use a revolver at that point IMHO? So I go for something that I can carry more rounds than I think I might ever possibly need.



Your Glock only holds 10 rounds, is that more than you think you could possibly need? The glock holds two more rounds than the 1911. I always carry an extra mag. Anyone carrying an auto should.


Why not use a revolver at that point IMHO?

Because its allot easier to pop another mag in than pop out the cylinder, drop the empty's, then drop more rounds in.

I'm not trying to flame but everyone complains about mag capacity of the 1911. I think its a empty complaint.

Link Posted: 3/20/2002 5:06:58 AM EDT
Gamesniper, The trick to carrying a gun every day is picking a gun that you will carry every day. I carry a gun every day (NYCPD) on and off duty and have found that it is more important to choose a gun and a method of carry that will ensure that you actually carry the gun each and every day than to have the largest, most powerfull, best, good looking, most accurate, ......... gun that you can buy. Carring a gun is a pain in the ass. But needing a gun and not having one is more of a pain in the ass. Some people can carry a full size auto, I can't. It is too heavy, limited number of ways to conceal. I carry a gun on a ankle holster. Most people will say that is the worst way to carry a gun. But guess what, I always have a gun with me 24X7. During the summer when I wear shorts I go to a belly band holster. I have a locker full of holsters and have tried everything and found that these two methods of carry are best for me. Over the next several years you will purchase several holsters until you find what works for you. I would rather see someone carry a .25 auto everyday that have the ultimate carry gun protecting the safe every day. Good Luck, MIKE. PS I carried a S&W model 36 .38 special for 15 years and have been carrying a Glock model 26 9mm for the past 5 years.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 5:20:17 AM EDT
I carry a Glock 23 with an ext. ported barrel. I also have a M3 TI around for night time use.

Come Saturday, I will have a 2nd gun as a back-up. That being a Taurus 5-shot .38+P Titanium carried in an ankle rig.

It all comes down to what you like to shoot. Go play with some guns and see what makes you smile the biggest...
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 5:42:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 6:53:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By USMCsilver:
I carry a Glock 23 with an ext. ported barrel. I also have a M3 TI around for night time use.

Come Saturday, I will have a 2nd gun as a back-up. That being a Taurus 5-shot .38+P Titanium carried in an ankle rig.

It all comes down to what you like to shoot. Go play with some guns and see what makes you smile the biggest...



The ported barrel is an awful idea for a defensive firearm. Most likely in its intended role, this weapon will be deployed at night, and as such the flames shooting directly into your line of sight WILL hurt you follow up ability far more than the muzzle flip reduction afforded by this modification. (I realize that it is a factory mod.) Just something to consider.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 7:50:55 AM EDT
Another day, and another round of thanks!
Mike: I agreee wholeheartedly. What I'm looking for is EXACTLY what you refer to-a sidearm I can carry EVERY DAY, no problem. What led me to this was that I've already tried 1) 1911 type, full sized 2) S&W 686 .357 4" bbl and 3) Beretta 92FS 9mm. Problems encountered were: 1911-just too heavy right now, can't get used to it. But few things get someone's attention like pulling that big, honkin' SOB out and letting someone look into that CAVE at the end. S&W 686-OK on weight, but the grip is too obvious under a jacket or sweatshirt. Beretta-Also good on weight, but a little long on length. As I mentioned, the end of the barrel/holster stick out from under my jackets or sweatshirts. The Sig I've got my eye on fits my hand really well,I like the .40S&W, it's great on weight, and looks as though it will be truly easy to conceal. Besides, when I get another 1911 type, I want to go full sized again.
USP: I have to concur with you on this. My CCW instructor has a ported Glock, and although he said he loves to shoot it, he said he NEVER carries it because of the flash/blinding problem. He said he tried it just to make sure. And this guy CAN SHOOT. I believe him.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 8:36:01 AM EDT
You guys might not agree with me,But As far as a ccw I like a small frame revolver.My weapon of choice is a S&W Model 60 with 2 1/8 bbl.Cal.357.It small enough to carry in about any type wardrobe and still packs a pretty good punch.I usually don't plan on getting into an all out firefight when I leave the house( But sometimes shit happens)so I guess 5 rounds in and a speedloader will do.And I have never had a wheel gun jam.BTW I have several semi-autos.The 60 is like my favorite deer rifle ,it may be 4 or 5 laying there but that is the one i am going to grab.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 9:18:09 AM EDT
Swampdog, In this day and age, and especially with this group it is hard to advocate for revolvers (most of us like auto everything) but you are right. The only failure I every experienced with a revolver was getting a spent cartridge caught under the star when reloading. Very hard to fix in the field. Most gun fights occur under 7 yards and last 2-3 shots for both parties. Rather than carrying a speed loader I carried one of those small six shot leather cartridge holders on my belt. Even if the holder is in plain view most people do not know what it is. I would still carry a revolver at times but I have to choose one or the other I cannot have two off duty guns. I think a five shot revolver worth having no matter what your primary carry gun is. Small enough to stick in your pants pocket, front waist band or if you are fat like me on your strong shooting side, inside your waist band, butt foward, no holster. Your fat roll holds it in place. Mike.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 1:40:59 PM EDT
Mike 103,HA! HA! man you hit the nail on the head.I have several holsters for my little model 60 ,But like you said us fat boys know how to carry it.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 4:04:56 PM EDT
where were you guys yesterday, when I was singing the praises of the small frame wheele gun. I thought I was all alone in my carry preference. although I am not that ...shall we say... large around the middle (I am by no means in the greatest shape circumfrance wise.) small frames are the best for C/C

Link Posted: 3/20/2002 5:10:16 PM EDT
S&W 686+, (7 "lives") 3.5" bbl. Usually use a fanny pack because it offers a pretty quick draw. Inside the jacket holster or pocket is also an option, but I have been happy with the fanny pack so far. I also definitely think wheelguns are the way to go.

You need to train, using your carry mode of choice, so I'd recommend avoiding the superlight wheelguns for 2 reasons:
1) They sting like hell when firing anything hotter than a .38 cal. Though porting reduces recoil bite some, but if you ever need to actually fire it in a life threatening scenario, you'll most likely not be aiming it as you do at the range. More than likely, you'll just get it out & have it close to you. Consider the fire shooting from those bbl. ports. They'll cause flash disorientation and maybe even give you a slight burn if really close.
2) Because they are effected differently by inertial recoil forces, lightwheels must be restricted in the types of bullets they can reliably shoot. Generally, with these guns, light grained loads can actually get jarred loose enough from their casings that they will protrude out beyond the cylinder bore and impede the cylinder from spinning. Mfg's do warn of this in owners manuals, but you still have to keep it in mind. Generally, light wieght & non-jacketted/lead loads are verbotten for use in lightweight wheelguns.

In sum, stick with heavier, tamer, steel wheels.

Now you might ask, "So why go with revolvers?" The tried-&-true steel revolvers are great CCW tools. For me, revolvers get the nod for 3 reasons:
1) They're generally smaller than similar cal. autos.
2) Reliability. Though many autos today are as reliable as wheelguns (my USP has yet to hiccup), the trusty wheelgun only fails if something breaks internally. It's a simple design, so the're less to go wrong. No funky safety/decocker, to fiddle with - they're always ready.
3) No spent brass.

Now, there are some quality, CCW-worthy semi's out there. I'd carry my own Tactical if it weren't so big. H&K, Glock, Khar are noteable (Yes, I know there are others as well).

Good luck.
Link Posted: 3/20/2002 6:33:25 PM EDT
Haven't thought about an H&K P7M8 have ya ?
Won't see one every day. Looks : love/hate...
your call. Same light single action pull, EVERY time. Fastest auto to get back in battery. Completely ambi. Costs a "bit". Stay safe
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