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Posted: 7/18/2010 6:14:56 AM EST
New to surplus rifles, shot them plenty, but have never owned, so my knowledge is limited. The Mosin still seems to the best buy, but I'm leaning towards a K-31 or an Enfield. I'm looking for a solid shooter for fun range use, not a safe queen. Is there anything I should know before I take the plunge? Pros/cons/safety issues/ammo availability? Anything else?
Link Posted: 7/18/2010 7:42:38 AM EST
[#1]
I just bought a mosin and it is a ton of fun to shoot.  The one I got is fairly accurate and I've found ammo as cheap as $.27 per round (in spam cans).  And they're definitely not safe queens.
Link Posted: 7/18/2010 7:42:45 AM EST
[#2]
Ammunition for both the K31 and Enfield is going to run you closer to $0.50 per round, compared to maybe $0.20 for the Mosin.  If ammo cost is a concern but you don't want a Mosin, you could also consider a Czech or Yugoslavian Mauser; they are available in the $200+ range and 7.92x57mm ammo costs around the same as 7.62x54R.  All are fine rifles so get whatever makes you happy.
Link Posted: 7/18/2010 8:44:03 AM EST
[#3]
What of the mentioned (Mosin, Enfield, K-31) can handle commercial ammo? I'd be running inexpensive surplus, but I'd still like something that can handle commercial just in case.

J&G has surplus x54 for around $80 per 440 rnds.

Where's the best place to get a clean Mosin without pitting and w/ a clean bore?

Link Posted: 7/18/2010 10:14:39 AM EST
[#4]
Quoted:
What of the mentioned (Mosin, Enfield, K-31) can handle commercial ammo? I'd be running inexpensive surplus, but I'd still like something that can handle commercial just in case.

J&G has surplus x54 for around $80 per 440 rnds.

Where's the best place to get a clean Mosin without pitting and w/ a clean bore?



Assuming the rifle is in good shape, they all can handle commercial ammo.


Availability, on the other hand....



Also, check your local gun shop and gun shows for a Mosin.
Link Posted: 7/18/2010 11:37:59 AM EST
[#5]
I ordered a mosin from aim. Didn't get handpicked...was just under $100 to my door.  Great shape and great bore, etc....  totally awesome.  A little sticky bolt with the lacquer ammo, but I got that ironed out.
Link Posted: 7/18/2010 3:05:54 PM EST
[#6]
I would get a Mauser over a Mosin every day and twice on Sunday!

The Mosin is a crappy rifle in my opinion. Crappy sights, crappy safety ( Does it even really qualify as a safety?),  crummy manufacturing tolerances, clunky bolt operation, 80" barrel- except in the Carbines which are hellacious to shoot.... etc...etc...etc....

The only reason I would buy a Mosin is if I needed a gun to stash someplace where it might get stolen- no great loss. If you were dead ass poor it might also be a viable option, otherwise there is no reason to consider them.
Link Posted: 7/18/2010 5:25:57 PM EST
[#7]
While I agree with Will on the Mauser being better built, I'll have to disagree about the rest of his post. While the Mosin wartime machine work left alot to be desired, you have to remember, the Russians picked up and moved their factories about 1000 miles to the East to evade Nazi bombings. That in itself is reason for owning one.
I have a 1943 M38 that looks worse than a high school shop project, but it's accurate enough for "battle" and a fun rifle to shoot. The Mosin's have been in service for over 100 years and alot of history behind them. There are too many variants to list, proofmarks that remain "unknown" and lots of fun to research if you are into that kind of thing.
Ammo is cheap, and for the price of a decent Mauser, you can buy two Mosins (remember that saying 2 is 1 and 1 is none?) I actually like the Mosin sight picture better than the Mauser and don't find the Mosin carbine recoil any worse than a stout 30-30 load. The Mosin wins hands down in the fireball department too.
ETA–– fireball video
Link Posted: 7/18/2010 6:48:07 PM EST
[#8]
Definitely would suggest a Mosin for a first buy. They are cheap, plentiful, and tough as a rock.
As stated above, there are many variations to choose from. I would recommend shopping around a bit, you can pick up one in excellent shape.
Picked my Mosin up from Classic Arms for just at 90 bucks and its not the best looker but it'll out-shoot the shooter.
As with any surplus rifle, have it checked out by a gunsmith and you should be g2g.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 4:37:22 AM EST
[#9]
What year Mosin should I look for? What year is considered "the best" production quality wise?
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 5:07:47 AM EST
[#10]
Quoted:
What year Mosin should I look for? What year is considered "the best" production quality wise?


The pre-war guns usually have a little better fit/finish to the metal. They all shoot the same, given equal condition, however. The hex receiver rifles (built until 1936) are probably a little more desirable, since there are fewer of them and they are older. "Buy the bore" is probably the best advice.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 6:45:09 AM EST
[#11]
There are alot of guys that really like the Mosins. I, myself, owned over a dozen Finnish rifles at one time- they generally had much better barrels etc...than a run of the mill Russian Mosin and I was very interested in the Winter War. Too, lots of variations in those rifles- I still have a 28 built on a Remington receiver.....If only it could talk....Bought mine cheap when they first came in, they got stupid expensive and I sold most of them, retaining the most rare variants for myself.

However, as a "Rifle" they just fall short in so many areas that I can't recommend them. I just don't drink the "cheap = great" Koolaid. I'm past the stage where I buy things just to have them. If I want a rifle, I'm going to buy a rifle that is worth owning-today AND tomorrow.

Mausers, decent ones, will cost more than a Mosin but there are plenty of bargains out there if you are willing to look at all. There are some photos of a nice Gew 98 that a guy bought not long ago for under $200 on this forum for example. Go take a look at the Czech Mausers Aim is selling right now- they are friggen gorgeous, for $209. The Czech VZ rifles are widely regarded as some of the finest Mausers EVER made, their actions highly prized for building sporting rifles due to their strength and precision machining. Have you ever seen a $2,500 custom rifle made out of a Mosin action.....me neither.....?

The Mauser has EVERY bit as much history, variation etc...as the Mosin. In fact, Mausers were made a hell of alot more places than Mosins ever were and probably used more places as well. Mosins were almost never used in South or Central America for example-by the time the insurgencies got started in the 60's the Russians were sending out AK's, not Mosins..... Every place there was a Mosin being used there were Mausers too but the reverse is not true-the Finns used Swede 96's, the Chinese manufactured Mausers LONG before they made Mosins, almost all of Europe (east and west) was armed with Mausers in both World Wars, all of Central and South America, they saw use in Africa with the Boers (Whose motto was "Vertroue in God en die Mauser" ––"Faith in God and the Mauser rifle") and in the German colonies, Rommel in Egypt.... San Juan Hill ring any bells? Hell, the Israelis adopted the Mauser and re barreled some to .308! Many of the rifles available now are Russian capture rifles.....

No shoulder fired arm has more History than the Mauser, none-not even the AK (there are a few "also rans" though- notably the British Enfield and Brown Bess. The Mauser was CHOSEN by many nations....the Mosin was GIVEN to most nations where it served.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 7:01:34 AM EST
[#12]
The Czech Mausers at AIM look really great for the price. Will these handle commercial ammo like S&B, Prvi, etc?
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 7:18:33 AM EST
[#13]
Will these handle commercial ammo like S&B, Prvi, etc?

Yes, they will be fine. The truth about MOST milsurp ammo loaded commercially is that it is under loaded.

They are afraid that somebody is going to throw a hot round in some ancient and much abused specimen and blow the damn thing to pieces. This is why .45-70 ammo was so very tame for so many years- fears that someone would redecorate their face with a Trapdoor Springfield. That has started to change a little bit but for the most part commercial rounds in milsurp calibers are pretty sedate.

That's another virtue of 8mm Mauser. It has been on the American scene in large numbers since the end of the First World War. Every major ammo manufacturer has or does load for it. I have seen 8mm Mauser in Remington and Federal loads at Walmart though not recently.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 11:24:54 AM EST
[#14]
I usually don't advocate a getting a Mosin Nagant, but in your case I think it would be the best surplus rifle to start out with not only because of the price they demand but because of the cost of the ammo.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 5:24:32 PM EST
[#15]
Quoted:
I usually don't advocate a getting a Mosin Nagant, but in your case I think it would be the best surplus rifle to start out with not only because of the price they demand but because of the cost of the ammo.


They only get a bad rap because they're cheap.  People see the $80 price tag and just assume that they can't be very good if that's all they cost.

Mosins are fantastic rifles, especially for the price and there are some really nice ones out there.  Most of the 91/30 stock from AIM, for example, is never-issued, 1930s vintage.  You will likely be the second person in all of history, other than the factory tester, to ever shoot the rifle you buy.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 5:39:47 PM EST
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I usually don't advocate a getting a Mosin Nagant, but in your case I think it would be the best surplus rifle to start out with not only because of the price they demand but because of the cost of the ammo.


They only get a bad rap because they're cheap.  People see the $80 price tag and just assume that they can't be very good if that's all they cost.

Mosins are fantastic rifles, especially for the price and there are some really nice ones out there.  Most of the 91/30 stock from AIM, for example, is never-issued, 1930s vintage.  You will likely be the second person in all of history, other than the factory tester, to ever shoot the rifle you buy.


Sorry, but this is not true, at all. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE Mosins and consider myself to be quite the collector of them (having over twenty with 11 of them being original snipers). BUT, the guns that are currently being sold by AIM are refurbished rifles (as are probably 99% of the 91/30s being sold in the U.S. today). They are not "unissued" and, as nice as they may be, I would hope that nobody buys one with the impression that they're getting a brand new, just off the factory floor, rifle. Not even close.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 5:44:23 PM EST
[#17]
My take on your question. The 91/30 is a good shooter. On occasions you will find one that shoots exceptional. K31 is a great shooter. It will handle all commercail loads and shoot them well. Awesome rifle that rivals my Swedes. VZ24 can be a crapshoot. It is a great rifle, but since most bores were cleaned incorrectly, they are either worn or counterbored. I would be happy to sell a young man such as yourself a perfect 24/47. I have never shot her, but she is a pristine early 24/47.
Send me a PM. Hey, your in Mass! I maybe very close to you. My FFL here in NH does $15.00 transfers unless you have an 03.
Top Rifle.



It is not the TRZ ! Code.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 7:07:11 PM EST
[#18]
Quoted:
(as are probably 99% of the 91/30s being sold in the U.S. today). They are not "unissued" and, as nice as they may be, I would hope that nobody buys one with the impression that they're getting a brand new, just off the factory floor, rifle. Not even close.


Very true. Even so, Mosins are great rifles. I wholeheartedly second the above statement; even though nearly all Mosins are refurbed they perform top notch in respect to the conditions most were produced under and the events they undergo/underwent in their life span. A lot of people neglect that fact.
Do not let anybody talk you out of a Mosin, every collector should have at least one. That being said, you should buy whatever rifle you choose, none of them will be a bad choice.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 7:16:50 PM EST
[#19]
Sound advice, Cliffyy. I love them all, be it Mausers, Mosins, Enfields, Arisakas, Springfields, etc., etc.
Link Posted: 7/19/2010 7:22:52 PM EST
[#20]
Quoted:
I would get a Mauser over a Mosin every day and twice on Sunday!

The Mosin is a crappy rifle in my opinion. Crappy sights, crappy safety ( Does it even really qualify as a safety?),  /quote]

It's a "Garrison Safety".  You don't use it in the field, you only use it when you get back to camp.

Link Posted: 7/20/2010 4:14:51 AM EST
[#21]
It's a "Garrison Safety". You don't use it in the field, you only use it when you get back to camp.


That was kinda my point, basically, useless. You don't shoot rifles in "the garrison" (The wife would take a rather dim view of my taking pot shots at her spoon collection. No, our "garrison" is off limits for shooting as I suspect most users is). You shoot rifles on the range or in the field. When you are shooting them you have need of a safety from time to time having a live round chambered.....I have found that rifles that are truly empty-"garrison" storage condition, rarely discharge..... Condition three is no way to carry a rifle in the field.

There is no arguing that the Mosin is a historically significant firearm. That doesn't make it a "great" firearm from the modern users perspective. Also, there are MANY historically significant firearms, many of which served in the same conflicts with the Mosin, on the same or the opposite side. At this stage in history though, from a shooting perspective, with so many better weapons available it's only virtue is it's low cost.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 4:20:10 AM EST
[#22]
Lots of great info, guys, thanks.

jpattersonnh, IM sent.

Link Posted: 7/20/2010 7:35:51 AM EST
[#23]
TW52 - a fellow People's Republic of MA resident, I see.  Welcome.

My hex 91/30 shoots 10-round 8" groups @ 100 yards with milsurp.  Cheap, tho.
My K31 will put 10 rounds of Prvi into a 4-5" group, or 10 handloads into 2-3".

Guess which one gets taken to the range more?

55_grain
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 11:09:39 AM EST
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I usually don't advocate a getting a Mosin Nagant, but in your case I think it would be the best surplus rifle to start out with not only because of the price they demand but because of the cost of the ammo.


They only get a bad rap because they're cheap.  People see the $80 price tag and just assume that they can't be very good if that's all they cost.

Mosins are fantastic rifles, especially for the price and there are some really nice ones out there.  Most of the 91/30 stock from AIM, for example, is never-issued, 1930s vintage.  You will likely be the second person in all of history, other than the factory tester, to ever shoot the rifle you buy.


I do understand and can appreciate the place Mosin Nagants hold in the surplus market. I have collected many of them in my years. I just don't usually advocate on behalf of buying one simply because they are cheap to buy. I would rather talk to someone about buying their first Mauser action etc.

But.....in this guys case if he knows nothing about Mil Surp rifles and is going to buy his first and is not worried about #'s matching etc. then the Mosin Nagant fits the bill quite well.

Like another member mentioned above the ones AIM is selling are not "Unissued". Not sure where you got your info from on this.......
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