I am ditching the short 556 AR platform.   Hell, I will probably dump all of my ARs.  

For the time being, I am on a search for a non AR platform to suppress with an intermediate cartridge in a compact package.   No DI nor piston AR uppers and no AR lower in the platform.

What platform, that is completely unrelated to the AR platform, uses an intermediate cartridge such as the 5.56 or 7.62X39, is very compact, and is less picky/problematic than the AR platform?



.

A suppressor pressurizes the top of the upper receiver and attempts to blow the charging handle out of the gun.  The only thing keeping it in place is the latch.  Perhaps the latch is worn or improperly fitted?

The appropriate action would be to get a non-goofy charging handle, and also inspect the upper receiver where the charging handle latch hooks onto the notch on the upper.

I did not realize the BCMGUNFIGHTER Charging Handle (5.56mm/.223) w/ Mod 4 (MEDIUM) is considered goofy.

I had one on my ar10 do the same thing. The latch where it meets the receiver had worn. U can replace that piece or like me , grab another charging handle. Mine would only do it on the last round.

To crotchety old geezers like GP it is.

I had a Raptor CH do this almost every shot on a non suppressed rifle. The latch and notch looked fine to me, no excessive wear. I tried an ambi BCM and it stays latched 100%

The funny thing is the Raptor spring is stiffer than the BCM. I just switched them out and forgot about it until I read this.

This topic is essentially "I have a non-standard aftermarket part. It's having problems, what should I do?"

To which the answer is "Use the mil-spec part and see of the problem goes away."

99% of the time this will fix the problem.

"Mil-Spec" isn't all it's cracked up to be.  In fact, it's a marketing gimmick more than anything else.  The 'mil-spec' charging handle latch works fine about 50% and merely adequate the other 50% of the time.  If your upper is mil-spec and your CH latch is Mil-Spec and your CH is mil spec and your CH spring is mil-spec and your bolt carrier is mil-spec and your carrier key is mil-spec... etc.  then everything works fine, right?  AHHHhhhh, but your suppressor certainly isn't Mil-Spec, is it?  The AR-15 was designed for a 20" barrel and rifle-length gas system.  The CAR-15 / XM177 was designed for a vastly different system.  Modern cans have a great deal of back pressure and when the bolt carrier goes back, MUCH of that pressure is blown directly by the carrier key thereby pressurizing the upper to many times what "MIL-SPEC" would have envisioned.

EXACTLY

First make sure your gunworks correctly with standard parts.

I would suspect that your upper receiver's notch is worn where the CH latch grabs onto in order to stay put.  My guess would be that a "mil-spec" CH would NOT cure that issue.  Pics of your shit would be beneficial.

Oh wow.   I honestly had no clue the AR platform was so picky.   I have around a dozen various ARs, but only 2 are close to being mil spec.   Those two are semi only copies of the M16A2 and the M4A1.  The rest are 22s, 9mms, 300 BOs, and various 556 guns including piston guns that are very obviously not mil spec.    But, with this reputation of being non mil spec, I don't want to mess with the non mil spec guns and their associated issues.



I have an acquaintance who has offered to help me sell the 10.5" 556 upper.   If it works out, I am going to try to dump the other non mil spec guns.   I will probably hold onto the copies of the M16A2 and the M4A1.

While  the uppers themselves can be separated and sold on the internet on sites like Armslist, some of the lowers and cans will be a problem to move.   I am sure the optics, mostly Aimpoint T1s, H1s, PROs, Trijicons, and even the EoTech will sell.    I only need to keep one to build some sort of quiet, fast, and reliable home defense gun.

The lower with the 10.5" 556 gun is 7 months into the form 1 process.    I guess I can build other M4 and M16 copies on those.   Other than that, I don't know what to do with lowers with stamps.    As an example, one of the 9mm ARs is also stamped.   Everything about a 9mm AR is a bastardization.  While the Colt 9mm carbine should sell,  I have heard that it is a headache to sell NFA items, and I should expect to take a huge hit.    I can more easily sell the non-NFA lowers or move them as complete guns.

I am not sure what to do with the Gemtech TREK.     It is a direct thread can.    I'm not particularly interested in  getting a 556 bolt gun to suppress.   That can, just like the stamped 9mm lower (a redheaded step child), is going to be a loss.   The other suppressors are more flexible and can be used on my other handguns and non-AR rifles.   I think I can hold onto the other suppressors and find uses for them.

I am open to advice on getting rid of the AR NFA lowers and than TREK.

Another big issue is finding a good home defense platform.     What is a good platform around which to build a quiet, fast, and reliable home defense gun without running into issues of the setup not being mil spec?  

Thanks for your input!

Hahaha. 

OP have you tried other charging handles with the upper?

I have two completed Noveske 10.5" uppers that came from the factory with BCM handles with the medium latch. Both function suppressed with no issues. 

So you really take honest advice to try a standard part instead of a third-party component and respond like a douche?



ETA: I gave you technical advice on a technical problem in a technical forum. What do you want?

It's bouncing and unlocking. No flaw, no mil spec issue, don't over think it. Try ANY different handle as long as your upper isn't worn. No big deal.

If it's indeed a gas issue, try a buster handle. Or remove your forward assist insert with silicone a spent .45 cartrage with a small hole in the primer or primer removed and proceed.

Give the pressure somewhere to go and you'll be fine.

Attached File


I looked up my old archived thread where I did this and photofucket lost all my pics but trust me, it works.

Attached File

I had the same issue with my Griffin Arnament CH. They sent me a stronger spring for the latch and it has worked perfect since

Excellent data point. It's almost...exactly what I was saying...hmm, fancy that...

The aftermarket charging handles have a little more surface area and are shaped to redirect gas. Anyone with a brain realizes that this will also increase pressure on the handle and could cause it to pop out of position when combined with a silencer. You could use a milspec CH, or tune the gas port or block to match the increased backpressure.

You can't always pick and choose what you replace and what you don't. Just like giving a car more horsepower.

OP, If you didn't want to hear the opinions and the advice of others, you shouldn't have asked the question... especially since you so obviously already know the answer...

Btw, the list is long, and you can start with the MK 18....

JPK

Nm 

I run Raptors on all of my suppressed ARs in 223, 300blk, 9mm, and 22lr. I have fired thousands and thousands of suppressed rounds through these rifles. I have had zero problems with the Raptors. Or anything else for that matter.

I had the extract thing happen with the same can and CH. I switched to a Freedom Bone CH and now it stays latched... but ever since I put the can on the BHO doesn't work on the last round; can off it does... but that's for a different thread.

Personsl attack reported.

I don't understand your  point.    People provided input.   Some made needless/pointless personal attacks .

I want a better platform to suppress.  The mk18 is about what I have set up.   Is just another AR.    I need a non picky platform.   Evidently, the AR platform isn't doing it for me.   I want a no BS gun.

Is that allowed here?   Is a person allowed to go to a non AR platform as a suppressed weapon?   If so, I would like to go to with a platform that does not have to be mil spec to run.

That is fucking priceless.  I like it. 

Do you understand root cause analysis?  What have you done to troubleshoot your issue?  People take their time to try and help you, whether or not it's done in the most delicate manner is insignificant, and you do nothing to try and help yourself?  You reject everything anyone suggests. You have over 5000 posts, which, judging by the difficulty you're having with a very simple issue, I'd say you've spent most of that time in GD.  Yet, you run and report someone for using "douche".  Very cute.  Why don't you try using some of those parts from the multitude of other AR's you have in your possession to troubleshoot your issue?

ETA:  Buddy said "like a douche". Therefore, he didn't call you a douche.  He was saying that your reaction was douche-like.  Where I come from that's not a personal attack.  That's a reminder to be cool at worst.

Well said!! Thank You!!!

I suggest others chill out.   I'm tired of the platform and playing games.  

I am moving on to another platform.   Keep suggesting otherwise and wasting time.

How about this.   Stop being offensive.   Stop jerking me around.   I've had enough of the suppressed short AR and having to bite my tongue here.
Just stop.
I will find some other platform to suppress with an intermediate cartridge in a compact package.    

.

Check out the Model 105 by Daisy. It's a intermediate compact package that you shouldn't have any issues with. It should work out well for you. Non-milspec as well.

I got a suggestion for you too...

Valentines Day!

Do you love it when a plan comes together?



I pity the fool that doesn't.

^ what can?

I disagree with your premise but why not like an XCR

What a shit show of a thread.

There are 2 basic proven platforms:  AR-15 and AK-47.  If you cannot understand how the AR-15 works then get an AK-47.  Everything else is newer, less proven, and maybe more complicated.

Get a SCAR, Bren, or the APC 223 if you're tired of ARs.

This! But since you want to shoot suppressed the AK is more or less out (non-concentric bore reputation and gas venting). Now you're back to the platform that nearly every Western nation's special operators utilize.
We call that a 'clue'...

HK53 clone. 8-9" barrel. 5.56. 25-40rd magazines. Able to suppress.

What else is going on with your ARs that is causing you to dump around a dozen of them? Hopefully not just a charging handle issue. My suppressed SBRs all have a Sentry 7 adjustable gas block to reduce blowback and the issues it causes. Maybe I'm just lucky but with a small amount of lubing and infrequent cleaning they run well.

Regarding your request for other platform suggestions here are my experiences with suppressing non-AR centerfire rifles. Maybe not what you are looking for but at least you will be better informed of what's out there:

Mini-14 / Mini-30: The Mini-14 was not factory threaded so I had to have it done by Chris at Aquila Firearms. The thread job and sight relocation are perfect. The factory thread job on my Mini-30 Tactical was not good enough for suppressor use (bullets grazing endcap) so I had Morgan at Class III Machining fix it for me, it is perfect now. While I enjoy shooting them suppressed, they are not as gas-free as any of my ARs with an adjustable block. I use a 30 caliber can on the Mini-14 to help reduce blowback. I also run a Wolff extra power spring in each to help reduce the increased bolt speed. Adjusting the gas is not easy on the Mini platform and can require some trial and error with different bushings. I'm fine with them as is. The Ruger factory magazines also tend to foul out faster than the Lancer or MagPul mags I use in my ARs. The rounds will start dragging and won't get picked up by the bolt. Magazine maintenance is important for my suppressed Minis, not so much for my ARs.

M1A: The M1A uses a front sight block that is grooved onto the barrel but is also threaded for the flash hider. This is a problem due to the sight block threads not being machined aligned to the bore of the barrel as well as the thread pattern being different than standard 5/8x24. I replaced my sight block with a Delta P block. The verdict is still out as to whether or not I'll scrap it and have the barrel chopped and threaded to remove the block altogether. I also have installed an adjustable gas plug (Schuster) which seems to work alright but I need more trigger time with this setup. This is not easily suppressible platform.

Browning BAR ShortTrac: I love this gun, it is my go-to hunting rifle. The BAR has an adjustable gas block from the factory so decreasing blowback is relatively simple. The hard part is stripping the rifle and sending it to Morgan at Class III Machining to thread it for you. I've already done all of the homework documented here. The downside of the ShortTrac is you are limited to the factory flush magazine (3, 4, or 5 rounds depending on caliber). There are no options for larger capacity magazines at this time, nor do I expect there ever will be.

AK-47: The AK has less blowback than expected but it is somewhat louder than the others with the gas piston being mounted above the barrel outside of any handguard. Right now I'm running a 30 caliber can but will be testing a Hybrid with a 46 caliber bore to determine if the blowback is further reduced (at the expense of suppression). Other than that it is an AK with normal AK features, awkward optics mounting, no bolt hold open, and short sight radius.

AHAHAHA Great idea!

I don't know.  If you want a fun rifle to shoot.  Try an encore receiver.  Have a barrel made in the caliber of your choosing and suppress it.    I love this rig.  Very light weight and very compact.  But it doesn't go PEW PEW PEW.   It goes swap......than you hear a pig crying.

MGM 16.5 inch 300 blackout barrel
encore pro hunter frame
ACE socom stock
PST 1-4
AAC SDN6

I think this one ran its course, plus the OP was edited and title changed once thread got going.