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Posted: 11/18/2008 2:00:04 PM EDT
I stopped by my CLEO's (Sheriff) office to get a Form 1 signed and print cards made. He asked if the BATF would accept Live Scan prints. I said that I did not know, but as they sent the two cards in the package and Live Scan was not mentioned it would be best to go that route.

Not a problem, they did the cards and the Live Scan as well. So now the Live Scan is in the system and they gave me a printout and suggested including it with my print cards.

Does anyone know if the BATF will accept the live scan product for a Form 1 or Form 4? If they do, will it speed things up any at all?

Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 2:22:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2008 2:23:42 PM EDT by 5150rob]
nope..

ATF (NFA) only excepts the old school ink print cards.  Why?  because they are stuck in the middle ages and they probobly dont want to spend the money to get set up with the livescan system.  Certain depts of the FBI which is where they send them too accepts livescan but apparently not the dept of FBI that does NFA.  Too bad because its a great system.  I have printed people on both.

I handle livescan for our officers and it works GREAT.  Much quicker and more accurate.  Too bad ATF did not except them for NFA tranfers.  It would make life much easier.

Link Posted: 11/18/2008 3:16:40 PM EDT
I thought it might be something like that, otherwise it might have been mentioned in the instructions!

Thanks!
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 5:57:27 PM EDT
Odd. I may be mistaken because I'm not sure of exactly what  is being discussed, but when I go to my local CLEO to drop of my forms for signature, I get my prints done there. It is a machine, essentially like a scanner and that is what I am guessing "live scan" is. If I am wrong I apologize in advance. Having said that, with the little printed cards, I have never had a problem in 6 going on 7 stamps.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 5:59:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2008 6:03:00 PM EDT by Err0r]
There is a guy on here 444 is his name. He says he has done his fingerprinting electronically alot. I assume live scan and what he was talking about is the same thing.





*EDIT nevermind I dont think its the same method.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:14:21 AM EDT
Yes, Live Scan is a specialized scanner and computer program. The operator places your fingers, and hand, on a glass where the image is recorded real time. The program can even determine if the prints are good enough. If not, it tells you to try again. My prints would not even register at first. Hmmm, perhaps I'm in the wrong business. The officer had to wipe my pads with a rag and some Windex to get them to register.

So the prints are now in the system. I'll submit the printed card along with the manual print cards. Nothing to lose as far as I can tell, and it could help.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:30:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GarySTL:
Yes, Live Scan is a specialized scanner and computer program. The operator places your fingers, and hand, on a glass where the image is recorded real time. The program can even determine if the prints are good enough. If not, it tells you to try again. My prints would not even register at first. Hmmm, perhaps I'm in the wrong business. The officer had to wipe my pads with a rag and some Windex to get them to register.

So the prints are now in the system. I'll submit the printed card along with the manual print cards. Nothing to lose as far as I can tell, and it could help.

Thanks.


Yep, exactly my experience. The only thing that sucks is that I have to pay the fee each time but no biggie, the $5 is worth no ink on my fingers. Maybe I just keep getting lucky, maybe because my prints are from such a large department they give them a pass, who knows. They have never given me an issue over it though.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:51:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 5:56:18 AM EDT by 444]
Originally Posted By Err0r:
There is a guy on here 444 is his name. He says he has done his fingerprinting electronically alot. I assume live scan and what he was talking about is the same thing.


*EDIT nevermind I dont think its the same method.


Hey, I know that guy.

Yeah, I have received a total of 19 tax stamps that were all submitted with that type of fingerprint. Our local PD (Las Vegas Metro) dosn't even do ink fingerprints. I asked them the other day what they would do if someone came in with fingerprint cards and told them that they had to be printed the old fashioned ink way and she said she doesn't know what they would do because as far as she knows they have no way to do that.

For those who have never seen what we are talking about. Instead of pressing your fingertips onto ink, you simply put your fingertips on a piece of glass and a computer scans the print. The fingerprint cards you get back are EXACTLY the same cards that ATF requires. The ONLY difference is that the fingerprints are printed onto the card by a computer. The average person probably wouldn't even know the difference unless they were told there was a difference.

One other difference: because I have no intention to stop buying NFA items, when I get fingerprints done I get several sets of cards. The last time I was there (last week) I got six fingerprint cards. Instead of being printed six seperate times, you get printed once and the computer spits out however many cards it is told to spit out. So, for six cards you are printed once and then the computer prints out six copies.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 6:31:28 AM EDT
I don't know what system they have at the CJ, all I know is I went in once, and stuck my hand in a thing like a big photocopier/scanner.

Now I just hand them my DL and the cards.  They put the card type (258) in the machine, and how many to print and it prints the prints, and all my personal info...

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 8:10:35 AM EDT
I did ask if I could get extra cards if I needed them and they said "Sure, no problem!"
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 1:05:31 PM EDT
well if NFA is now accepting livescan prints and it sure sounds like they are according to you guys than I have been missing the boat.

Next NFA transfer I do I will do livescan for sure.  Its certainly much more accurate and convenient.

I just assumed that the cards they send with the F4s are the ones they want printed on with the old fashioned ink prints.  

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:54:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 6:07:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 6:11:04 PM EDT by NorthernBornRebel]
Originally Posted By 5150rob:
nope..

ATF (NFA) only excepts the old school ink print cards.  Why?  because they are stuck in the middle ages and they probobly dont want to spend the money to get set up with the livescan system.  Certain depts of the FBI which is where they send them too accepts livescan but apparently not the dept of FBI that does NFA.  Too bad because its a great system.  I have printed people on both.

I handle livescan for our officers and it works GREAT.  Much quicker and more accurate.  Too bad ATF did not except them for NFA tranfers.  It would make life much easier.




I find it odd that you work with LEOs (I don't know your official status) and yet uor screen name appears to be that of an IPS affiliate.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 10:38:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 444:
Originally Posted By Err0r:
There is a guy on here 444 is his name. He says he has done his fingerprinting electronically alot. I assume live scan and what he was talking about is the same thing.


*EDIT nevermind I dont think its the same method.


Hey, I know that guy.

Yeah, I have received a total of 19 tax stamps that were all submitted with that type of fingerprint. Our local PD (Las Vegas Metro) dosn't even do ink fingerprints. I asked them the other day what they would do if someone came in with fingerprint cards and told them that they had to be printed the old fashioned ink way and she said she doesn't know what they would do because as far as she knows they have no way to do that.

For those who have never seen what we are talking about. Instead of pressing your fingertips onto ink, you simply put your fingertips on a piece of glass and a computer scans the print. The fingerprint cards you get back are EXACTLY the same cards that ATF requires. The ONLY difference is that the fingerprints are printed onto the card by a computer. The average person probably wouldn't even know the difference unless they were told there was a difference.

One other difference: because I have no intention to stop buying NFA items, when I get fingerprints done I get several sets of cards. The last time I was there (last week) I got six fingerprint cards. Instead of being printed six seperate times, you get printed once and the computer spits out however many cards it is told to spit out. So, for six cards you are printed once and then the computer prints out six copies.



Haha, how about the scenery while you wait?
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 3:19:46 AM EDT
My first MG and can was done with live scan and no problems.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 3:33:11 AM EDT
I find it odd that you work with LEOs (I don't know your official status) and yet uor screen name appears to be that of an IPS affiliate.  


I am a Firearms/Training Instructor for the Security Team at a Nuclear Power facility.  Been doing this for 12 years.    I also handle fingerprinting and background checks on our Officers.  If you must know.

My screenname "5150rob" is refective of my love for the rock and roll band "Van Halen."  Have you never heard of Eddie Van Halen and his 5150 songs, guitars or amplifiers?  5150 is his codename.

now next time you question someones background and or screen name, make sure you have your facts straight.  I would not do that to you.  
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 4:38:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 4:40:40 AM EDT by 444]
The scenry makes me wonder why I get more than one set at a time.





For those not from Las Vegas, the LVMPD fingerprint division keeps probably about 20 people working full time, all day, all week. All kinds of jobs in Las Vegas require fingerprints INCLUDING strippers.
So, while you are waiting to turn in your application for a suppressor (or whatever) to the CCW division or waiting to get your fingerprints done, you are sitting in a big waiting room with everybody else waiting to get fingerprints INCLUDING all the new strippers begining their facinating and rewarding career in the adult entertainment industry.

When I bought my machinegun, I lived in Pahrump.
When I went there to do my paperwork and fingerprints all the new hookers for the brothels were gettting fingerprinted.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 8:33:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5150rob:
I find it odd that you work with LEOs (I don't know your official status) and yet uor screen name appears to be that of an IPS affiliate.  


I am a Firearms/Training Instructor for the Security Team at a Nuclear Power facility.  Been doing this for 12 years.    I also handle fingerprinting and background checks on our Officers.  If you must know.

My screenname "5150rob" is refective of my love for the rock and roll band "Van Halen."  Have you never heard of Eddie Van Halen and his 5150 songs, guitars or amplifiers?  5150 is his codename.

now next time you question someones background and or screen name, make sure you have your facts straight.  I would not do that to you.  



Fair enough. Apologies.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 8:44:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 8:44:34 AM EDT by 5150rob]
Fair enough. Apologies.




LOL  no problems my friend    no problems at all.  Maybe I should not have taken offense to it in the first place.  Sometimes I jump the gun a bit.

you are not the first person to ask me that either BTW  



Link Posted: 11/20/2008 8:57:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5150rob:
Fair enough. Apologies.




LOL  no problems my friend    no problems at all.  Maybe I should not have taken offense to it in the first place.  Sometimes I jump the gun a bit.

you are not the first person to ask me that either BTW  






When you have to deal with IPS members everyday who have 5150 tattooed on legs, arms, necks etc., "5150" ends up meaning just one thing: . Sorry to jump the gun.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 10:20:08 AM EDT
What's an "IPS member"?  
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 10:45:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By wdlsguy:
What's an "IPS member"?  


International Peckerwood Syndicate

It's a white power gang. Members usually have 5150 tattooed on themselves somewhere, usually on the neck but can be most anywhere. I have seen them on forearms, hands, shins etc..... I see these shitbirds all the time, and unfortunately I forgot to leave work at work and when I saw 5150 in the posters name above, I reacted inappropriately.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:12:59 AM EDT
International Peckerwood Syndicate

It's a white power gang. Members usually have 5150 tattooed on themselves somewhere, usually on the neck but can be most anywhere. I have seen them on forearms, hands, shins etc..... I see these shitbirds all the time, and unfortunately I forgot to leave work at work and when I saw 5150 in the posters name above, I reacted inappropriately.


really????  

I did not know that.  That is good to know though.  Even as a Van Halen fan I guess I will be a little more careful throwing around that 5150 thing  
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 11:36:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5150rob:
International Peckerwood Syndicate

It's a white power gang. Members usually have 5150 tattooed on themselves somewhere, usually on the neck but can be most anywhere. I have seen them on forearms, hands, shins etc..... I see these shitbirds all the time, and unfortunately I forgot to leave work at work and when I saw 5150 in the posters name above, I reacted inappropriately.


really????  

I did not know that.  That is good to know though.  Even as a Van Halen fan I guess I will be a little more careful throwing around that 5150 thing  



Yeah, and I guess I need to remember to keep work at work.

Link Posted: 11/21/2008 6:42:35 AM EDT
People get way too carried away with these internet names: whatever they are called.

You say 5150 to me and the first thing I think of is the address to the county mental health facility. Since that was the address, that is what we called it.

I have had a lot of people comment on my name: 444.
I guess it is a police code for "officer down".
They never consider that being on a gun forum, that it might be gun related. I acutally came up with that name the first time I was ever on a gun forum because I was trying to research a new rifle that I got. A 444 Marlin. I went to a guy's house who was selling a few guns to buy a .22-250. Turned out, I bought like 3-4 guns for a couple hundred bucks off him including a .444 Marlin which I didn't really know anything about.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 6:46:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 444:
People get way too carried away with these internet names: whatever they are called./div]

.......Drdoolittle_1............. don't even ask
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 9:55:03 AM EDT
With that name, I would assume, that you can communicate with animals in English and they answer you back in English.

But what do I know ?
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