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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/22/2005 5:47:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2005 5:47:43 PM EDT by TheKill]
I am currently using no armor and a GI style assault vest to carry AR magazines and assorted other stuff in training. I want to change to a PALS compatible vest that will hold full size plates. Some questions I have:

1. What exactly are the differences between carriers with and without soft armor? How does the soft armor attach, and can it be purchased seperately for (as an example) the Interceptor OTV?

2. Who all makes a PALS compatible vest that will carry plates, and what are the diffences in features and price?

3. What about ability to also use a ruck or pack?

Some of the vests I have seen so far are the Blackhawk STRIKE and an Eagle vest with cummerbund which are on sale at SKD Tactical here at ARFCOM.

Discuss. Thanks in advance!
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 6:38:37 PM EDT
The first thing I'd suggest is to take a look at the selection over at lightfighter.com


The second thing I'd suggest is to register on teh forums at lightfighter.net and have a look in their "Helmets and Armor" forum and their "Second Line Gear" forum. Do a search there before asking questions there and you'll find all the info you are likely to need.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 8:17:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2005 8:27:24 AM EDT by Shooter521]

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:
The second thing I'd suggest is to register on teh forums at lightfighter.net and have a look in their "Helmets and Armor" forum and their "Second Line Gear" forum. Do a search there before asking questions there and you'll find all the info you are likely to need.



If folks can learn everything they need by going to Lightfighter, then why does this forum even exist? Personally, I find LF to be a bit cliqueish and not newbie-friendly. A search may provide some useful information, but a lot of the info will be old, with nonfunctional links and/or images.

The retail side (Lightfighter.com) has a good online catalog, though, and I've included it in my links below.

Link Posted: 9/23/2005 8:26:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheKill:
I am currently using no armor and a GI style assault vest to carry AR magazines and assorted other stuff in training. I want to change to a PALS compatible vest that will hold full size plates.



Do you intend this rig to be used strictly as a means of carrying mags and other necessary gear in training courses, or do you have a real-world application for it (ie duty use) as well?


Who all makes a PALS compatible vest that will carry plates, and what are the diffences in features and price?


Your questions are really too far-reaching to be answered by one person here. I suggest looking around the various retailer and manufacturers' sites to get an idea of the different styles of rigs available. Here's a few to start you off:

www.skdtac.com
www.downrangetatical.com
www.triadtactical.com
www.lightfighter.com
www.tacticaltailor.com
www.eagleindustries.com
www.diamondbacktactical.com
www.tacticalassaultgear.com

Link Posted: 9/23/2005 9:14:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 9:26:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2005 9:31:40 AM EDT by Shooter521]

Originally Posted By brassburn:
Final note: Get what you want for whatever reason you want. It shouldn't matter to anyone else in the least why you need this piece of gear or that.



Of course. But if TheKill lets us know what he's going to be using the rig for, we might better be able to point him to products with features appropriate to those uses. I hate to see folks spend their hard-earned money on features and capabilities they'll never use. I'm just a practical kinda guy, I guess.

<­BR>
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 10:06:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 11:20:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shooter521:
If folks can learn everything they need by going to Lightfighter, then why does this forum even exist? Personally, I find LF to be a bit cliqueish and not newbie-friendly. A search may provide some useful information, but a lot of the info will be old, with nonfunctional links and/or images.

This forum exists because LF is "cliqueish and not newbie-friendly" and just generally not a good place for most of the guys on arfcom to hang out. But they have a good number of guys on there who wear armor on a daily basis who have posted info that is useful to this specific question. They also have people who work for companies like TT and Eagle who have posted info about their company's products.

"Cliqueish and not newbie-friendly" is not completely accurate. They are simply very insistant that people 'stay in their lane'. If your only experience with gear comes from the occasional weekend game of airsoft then you shouldn't be giving gear advice to guys on their way to the sandbox. Be up front about what 'lane' you are qualified to be in and then stay in that lane and LF is a good place with a ton of very good information.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 11:29:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brassburn:
Final note: Get what you want for whatever reason you want. It shouldn't matter to anyone else in the least why you need this piece of gear or that.


Anybody on here who tries to tell anybody else they don't need something beause they are not military or police should be banned. We 'need' tactical gear as much as we 'need' AR15s and all the other cool shit that we waste money on. And there's no shame in being 'just an ordinary guy who likes guns and shit and has enough disposable income to buy cool toys.' Hell, doesn't that describe 99% of the people on this web site?

But the more info the poster provides about projected usage the better an answer they'll get about what will work best for that use. He can't 'need' a plate carrier any less than I need one, but there's a pair of Israeil made SAPI plates sitting in my closet that'll probably (hopefully) never get used for anything except a safe target for dry firing practice.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 4:08:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2005 4:23:19 PM EDT by Shooter521]

Originally Posted By brassburn:
There should be no practical difference between a rig for training and a rig for "duty" use.



If your rig has a duty use, I agree totally. However, I wear load-bearing equipment solely as a means to haul mags, water and other bits of relevant gear onto the range when I take training courses or shoot matches with my long guns. In real-world use, my long guns are static home-defense weapons, and as such, do not require the support gear necessary for a class or a match. Aside from maybe an extra mag, of course, which is kept stored on the gun itself.

So a rig like mine, used solely for training, would probably look very different from one worn every day in the performance of LE or military duties, or even one kept ready for the dreaded "SHTF".


ETA: I apologize for jacking TheKill's topic; this could turn into an interesting discussion but might be more appropriate as its own thread.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 4:49:38 PM EDT
Fellas,

Use would be primarily training and for SHTF use. I shoot and train with LE and .mil although I aren't one, yet. However, there is an outside chance I may become certified as a peace officer in the future and become responsible for patrolling and protecting infrastructure during a terrorist threat or incident.

Our training group trains in tac rifle, tac pistol, vehicle fighting, and will also be doing some survival forum related training (bug out kit test runs) and team tactics.

I think it's a good idea to wear armor in group training. I have plates, just no carrier yet. Ideally, I could set it up with additional side armor, mag pouches, radio pouch, etc. and be compatible with a 3 day ruck. I am currently using the Spec Ops THE pack.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 6:38:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 7:58:05 AM EDT
i have an Eagle plate carrier with cumberbund and it's the best piece of 2nd line gear i've ever owned/used. i'm comparing this only to other pieces of gear that i've owned or issued which include; 782/duece gear, Eagle TAC-V1-N, BHI commando harness, SoTech hellcat w/hydro harness, SoTech Callahan and TT 2 piece Mav. Eagles PC has them beat in comfort/fit(with or w/out plates), vesatility, function, craftsmanship and value. drawbacks- when compared to the 2piece Mav or 782 gear, the PC is hotter and it's not as comfortable under a ruck .
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 8:15:39 AM EDT
Kill get out to BC's at the end of October. There will be plenty to check out and play with so you can get a feel of different setups. BC was kind enough to let me use a couple of his plates in my Callahan to check it out. And he let PX try on some stuff too so he could figure out the right size vest/carrier system for him.

Or if your off of work tomarrow and can make it some of us will be out shooting at RCLRC and you can check out my stuff then. Granted I don't have plates but you said you do so bring them with and you can see what the rig is like with plates in it. As you know anything we got you are more then welcome to check out, it makes it a hell of a lot easier when buying. I know it helped me out a lot on finding what style of plate I wanted.

Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:41:47 PM EDT
fellas , i'm not no hsld operator. but recently i have noticed that the plate carriers were designed for use with plates. duh??????? with that in mind, the plate carriers work better with plates in them. if you have no use for plates or never intend to train with the plates get a hellcat or some mag carriers instead. but if you buy a plate carrier and plates .. train with them on. the functionalility of the plate carriers with plates. the differene is night and day. i used to run my plate carrier without plates. got some plates recently and it changed the weight , balance and feel of the carrier. got em use em. really i know if i had to use my m4gery as a home defense weapon . i will never have the time to put my carrier on and strap it on. but, look at new orleans , is that an ideal situation to have time to put your full gear on and defend your familiy and property? no electrticity or water, knuckleheads running wild, looting and shooting at the leo's and rescue personnel , who are trying to help the people in need??? i've heard it here on arfcom before... pray for the best, but prepare for the worst... i thought when the new millenium came , we would be in a better place , but unfortunatley the start of the new millenium has started out with a f*(king "BANG"
and if you ahve the funds available .. why not get it ??? just my .02 pesos.


meat
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:05:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By meateater:
fellas , i'm not no hsld operator. but recently i have noticed that the plate carriers were designed for use with plates. duh??????? with that in mind, the plate carriers work better with plates in them.
meat



Couldn't agree more with that. I ran my Callahan with out plates last saturday, and then with plates all day last Sunday and it just doesn't feel the same without plates. Not that it's a bad thing mind you, but it just felt "right" with the plates. I'll still run it without till I can get some pates. But I definetly plan to get plates.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:00:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By meateater:
fellas , i'm not no hsld operator. but recently i have noticed that the plate carriers were designed for use with plates. duh??????? with that in mind, the plate carriers work better with plates in them.
meat



Couldn't agree more with that. I ran my Callahan with out plates last saturday, and then with plates all day last Sunday and it just doesn't feel the same without plates. Not that it's a bad thing mind you, but it just felt "right" with the plates. I'll still run it without till I can get some pates. But I definetly plan to get plates.



some kits that carry plates are designed to be worn with or with out plates, one or two plates, with or with out soft armor and still "work" great either way. "work better" at what with plates in them? works better at carrying ammo/gear? fit better? bottom line, Kill, buy what will suit your needs and/or wants. try stuff before buying, different gear manufacturers sizes vary dramatically. if you get something that doesn't work for you sell it fast before it's outdated and worthless then buy something else.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 1:05:28 PM EDT
Any recommendations for a Soft armor carrier along the lines of a wee/waa. I need one preferably with PALS etc for a SHTF/Hurricane type deal(after all im in Florida)
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 2:26:05 PM EDT
I recommend the Interceptor body armor because I know it works. If you can get one I recommend it, complete with plates, collar, throat, and nut protector. Im still trying to get my own, wont be in the Army forever.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:26:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brassburn:
Having said that, your duty in a simple SHTF scenario is to protect yourself and/or your family and property. Duty is what we make of it. Your "duty" to protect yourself and/or your family and property is no less righteous than the duty of a LEO or .mil individuals to protect those assets that their leadership determines.



+1000
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:34:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nf9648:
I recommend the Interceptor body armor because I know it works. If you can get one I recommend it, complete with plates, collar, throat, and nut protector. Im still trying to get my own, wont be in the Army forever.



I will eventually when I can afford a major upgrade like that, but now I need something to put my armor (soft) panels in as I already have those and it needs PALS type attachments
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:45:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 7:47:04 AM EDT by photoman]

Originally Posted By G_MAN:

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By meateater:
fellas , i'm not no hsld operator. but recently i have noticed that the plate carriers were designed for use with plates. duh??????? with that in mind, the plate carriers work better with plates in them.
meat



Couldn't agree more with that. I ran my Callahan with out plates last saturday, and then with plates all day last Sunday and it just doesn't feel the same without plates. Not that it's a bad thing mind you, but it just felt "right" with the plates. I'll still run it without till I can get some pates. But I definetly plan to get plates.



some kits that carry plates are designed to be worn with or with out plates, one or two plates, with or with out soft armor and still "work" great either way. "work better" at what with plates in them?

Never said it didn't work as good without the plates, just that it didn't "feel right" without them after running it with them, over all I just liked the feel of it with the plates vs without them it will run either way and work just fine either way. There were some issues that people brought up to me with the callahan that I don't feel are major issues. One of them was that as you start pulling mags out of the internal pouches that the set felt odd in that you lose some of the rigedness that you have with the mags in the pouches. Without plates it's not a big issue for me, it doesn't bug me at all. With the plates you don't even notice it as the plate obviously add to how ridged the set up is so you don't notice anything. It still works just as well for me without plates as it does with. One other thing that running it with plates does is keep it from bouncing a round alot when running and such. even with a full camelback and 6 mags on the front it bounced around alot, the plates kept that from happening.

Thats why I offered to let Kill play with it if he comes out to BC's place for the DE alumni shoot at the end of Oct. So he could get hands on with it and evaluate it himself based on what his neds are.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 10:18:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By G_MAN:

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By meateater:
fellas , i'm not no hsld operator. but recently i have noticed that the plate carriers were designed for use with plates. duh??????? with that in mind, the plate carriers work better with plates in them.
meat



Couldn't agree more with that. I ran my Callahan with out plates last saturday, and then with plates all day last Sunday and it just doesn't feel the same without plates. Not that it's a bad thing mind you, but it just felt "right" with the plates. I'll still run it without till I can get some pates. But I definetly plan to get plates.



some kits that carry plates are designed to be worn with or with out plates, one or two plates, with or with out soft armor and still "work" great either way. "work better" at what with plates in them?

Never said it didn't work as good without the plates, just that it didn't "feel right" without them after running it with them, over all I just liked the feel of it with the plates vs without them it will run either way and work just fine either way. There were some issues that people brought up to me with the callahan that I don't feel are major issues. One of them was that as you start pulling mags out of the internal pouches that the set felt odd in that you lose some of the rigedness that you have with the mags in the pouches. Without plates it's not a big issue for me, it doesn't bug me at all. With the plates you don't even notice it as the plate obviously add to how ridged the set up is so you don't notice anything. It still works just as well for me without plates as it does with. One other thing that running it with plates does is keep it from bouncing a round alot when running and such. even with a full camelback and 6 mags on the front it bounced around alot, the plates kept that from happening.

Thats why I offered to let Kill play with it if he comes out to BC's place for the DE alumni shoot at the end of Oct. So he could get hands on with it and evaluate it himself based on what his neds are.



good points for him to consider, FYI i was refering to the quote you quoted just above yours.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 10:35:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By G_MAN:
good points for him to consider, FYI i was refering to the quote you quoted just above yours.



Ahhhh ok

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