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Posted: 1/16/2011 11:11:16 AM EDT



Are there any standard upgrade for M1A's

What kind of accuracy can be expected for Scout models.

Cheapest place for surplus ammo / magizines.

Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 1/16/2011 11:25:55 AM EDT
Mags, ammo and range time for now; get to the upgrades when you feel it needs more; don't go "Botasky" just yet...



Link Posted: 1/16/2011 11:41:13 AM EDT
Don't ever forget it's just an improved Garand in .308.
It's a combat rifle made to hit a minute o' man out to about 600 yards or more.
If you bought it to be an uber-sniper capable of sub-moa performance at hundreds of yards, you'll be disappointed.
Fed'l Gold Metal Match will give you the best performance, imho, to see the limitations of your rifle and you.
Don't be disappointed if it doesn't group 1MOA at 100 yards or even worse with mil-spec/non-match ammo.

You can add unitized gas systems, tweak the trigger and bed the stock or replace it with a match-grade stock.
But when all is done, you'll just be a little poorer with the best combat gun made years ago. But most much cheaper bolt guns will outperform it in the hands of most shooters, imho.
Link Posted: 1/16/2011 11:54:12 AM EDT
I'm switching over from using my 5.56 AR to Heavy Metal class using this platform for 3 gun matches.

Most targets will be inside of 150 yards fired standing and or on the move shooting plates, poppers, and IDPA style targets. I don't need super duper accuracy, I just didn't know if there was some universal accuracy upgrade that everyone did.

I'm just trying to find where "the place" to get the cheapest USGI / curent contract magizines are and where cheap ammo sources are. I've seen good prices at AIM but they don't have much right now.
Link Posted: 1/16/2011 12:35:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2011 12:39:06 PM EDT by 50-140]
+1 To the points drshame has made.

As far as magazines, 44 mag, has good mags at a good price, the ones I've gotten have never given me any problems.

After firing it enough to see if you want to pursue making it more accurate, a good book is written by Scott Duff, "the owners guide and match conditioning", you can find it online easily.

ETA. More gratuitous M1A Porn

Link Posted: 1/16/2011 1:19:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2011 1:34:48 PM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 1/16/2011 7:57:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2011 8:00:22 PM EDT by Torment]
Originally Posted By haydendavid380:
I'm switching over from using my 5.56 AR to Heavy Metal class using this platform for 3 gun matches.

Most targets will be inside of 150 yards fired standing and or on the move shooting plates, poppers, and IDPA style targets. I don't need super duper accuracy, I just didn't know if there was some universal accuracy upgrade that everyone did.

I'm just trying to find where "the place" to get the cheapest USGI / current contract magazines are and where cheap ammo sources are. I've seen good prices at AIM but they don't have much right now.


I would imagine out of box it will shoot as accurate as you need for 3-gun. Not like you pin point for that game. But you'd be well served with a tactical mag release from Sadlak. M44mag.com is you resource for magazines. They sell CMI at a good price. CMI current Gi contract. Trigger work probably wouldn't hurt. Springfield themselves can hook you up. Otherwise simple drop in parts would Include Sadlak NM spring guide, and gas piston is a start till you want to go further.

Just me but I'd use a light weight Aimpoint T1 on the scout rail to compliment the speed of the rifle.
Link Posted: 1/16/2011 8:03:24 PM EDT
Proper accessories are mandatory...



Now, quit reading and go shoot the thing!

Matt
Link Posted: 1/18/2011 1:40:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2011 1:44:45 PM EDT by haydendavid380]
Originally Posted By raf:
Get a good owner's/operator's manual from Fulton Armory or on amazon. Don't get a manual that is for collectors or such right now.

Read the manual, but good, and buy any special tools you might need/want. At minimum, a coated cleaning rod of correct length, muzzle guide for same, bolt roller lubing tool, and bolt assy/dis-assy tool. Get a GI buttstock cleaning kit for your rifle (not a Garand), wipe it with oil, and stash it in the buttstock whehre it can never be lost, and will always be available. The added recoil-damping mass also changes the center of gravity a bit, and makes the rifle feel a bit more "lively".

Take the rifle apart, clean every bit of it, lube it right, and go shoot it. Take an Appleseed course, they will show you how to do it right. also see my thread in .22 RF forum here on inexpensive 10-22 Training rifles, which you can use to save $$$$ while training to shoot your M1A. I take my 10-22 out 3X more than my M1A, and all the training I do is directly transferable.

DO NOT modify your new rifle (and mebbe void warranty) until you have put several hundred rounds through it to confirm reliability, unless an obvious problem crops up sooner. Test each mag, and mark them individually so as to be able to ID problem mags. Buy good quality web gear to carry your mags, water, and so forth. GI loadout was 5 mags, and maybe a bandolier or two. If you find it worthwhile, have SA do a trigger job on your trigger group. Most folks start there with mods, and having them do it will not void your warranty, either. Probably the most cost-effective mod you can do.

Spare parts to obtain, either NOS GI, or well-made civvy, are firing pin, hammer and trigger pins, all springs, extractor, and ejector. Buy a GI synthetic stock to save your new wooden unit. Syn stocks can be easily painted, and do not warp due to humidity, unlike wood. Many say the tighter fit of GI syn stocks enhances accuracy.

Using decent (not new, fresh) GI milsurp ammo, your rifle should group within 4 MOA, that is to say, if you are a good shooter, the rifle should group within either an inch at 25M, or 4" at 100 yds. You can get great ammo for your rifle, but it is expensive, even if you re-load. See my thread on the 10-22 mentioned above, and start saving all your boxer-primed (reloadable) brass.

Some Burris pistol scopes are seemingly made for your rifle, and give reticular hold-overs out to 500M. Save up for such, and in the meantime calibrate your iron sights at 25M, setting the index on elevation to "2" when you are right-on. Confirm zero at actual range ASAP.

Above all, do not rush out and try to expensively modify your rifle. Spend time and effort in learning how to use it right, and by the time you decide some mods might be in order, you will have had the chance to save up for them, and will have also had the benefit of time to ask other owners their opinions. You will have plenty to do if you follow my suggestions. As the owner of a SM M1A, they are all made from experience.


My rifle came came with the Army M14 tech manual, but it doesn't show the lube points, and detail strip. Is there somewhere online with this information? I was planning on going out with it this weekend to the range, and wanted to go over the internals before I did.


Eta- Is there a place to pick up beater GI sythetic stocks?
Link Posted: 1/18/2011 1:47:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2011 1:52:31 PM EDT by nmmi9100]
Accuracy: Figure 3 MOA with US ball ammo most the time.

Mags. Lots of Mags. 20 minimum.

Go for the Checkmate Industries version, aka CMI.

www.44mag.com is my source.

FredsM14stocks used to be the source for fiberglass stocks. They're about out these days. You'll have to do some looking around on Gunbroker, the EE here, etc, etc.

And use GREASE to Lube an M14. Oil is for the bore. GREASE is for everything else, most importatly the bolt roller, oprod, oprod guide, and locking lug recesses.

-David
Edgewood, NM
Link Posted: 1/18/2011 1:49:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/18/2011 2:01:22 PM EDT
Go buy some ammo, 3 mags, a good sling, a handful of targets, and them go to range.


Then say this:
This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will...

My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit...

My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my eyes and my heart against damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will...

Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life. So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace!


Zero then work on your skills.



Link Posted: 1/18/2011 2:07:22 PM EDT
And get to an Appleseed as soon as you can.

-David
Edgewood, NM
Link Posted: 1/18/2011 2:30:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2011 2:36:41 PM EDT by haydendavid380]
I took some proper non-cell phone pictures too:





and my favorite




ETA - Closest Appleseed is 3 hours away
Link Posted: 1/18/2011 4:47:27 PM EDT
Nice Rifle.

Appleseeds are scheduled all the time. Check back often. I've driven as far as 8 hours to teach an Appleseed...we're all volunteers. But learning about your revolutionary war heritage and learning how to shoot without a crutch (rest, sandbag, bipod, whatever) is worth it.

Hope to see you an Appleseed SOON!

-David
Edgewood, NM
Link Posted: 1/18/2011 7:52:50 PM EDT
Put a sling on it, and go shoot the damn thing. And don't stop until it's cleaning time. (or until you run out of $ @ .42 a round )
Link Posted: 1/19/2011 12:33:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2011 12:40:55 PM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 1/19/2011 2:51:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2011 2:53:03 PM EDT by stevelish]
Shim the gas cylinder if the front band is loose, make sure the handguard is not touching the receiver or stock, make sure the scout mount doesn't contact the op rod, make sure the gas cylinder doesn't contact the stock, make sure the op rod doesn't contact the stock. Lots of good info here, but go here: http://m14tfl.com/upload/ All the info you will ever need.

Link Posted: 1/21/2011 3:04:00 AM EDT
All good advice already given, so there isn't much more that I could add.


But she is an awesome looking rifle
Link Posted: 1/21/2011 7:48:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2011 7:51:10 PM EDT by xk319]
Get "Fred's Guide to Becoming a Rifleman", some targets, and a very good copy of the GI shooter's coat in a package deal from fredsm14stocks.com


And after you finish that transaction prepare to wait a year. I don't want to derail the thread, but please buy your initial m14 items from a more reputable source. Fred use to be great, but he's now extremely sketchy on delivering the product you paid for. I'm not talking about you got the wrong thing or in bad condition, I mean it's just never shipped. I don't want you to have a bad experience right off the bat. Do a search and you'll see there have been many problems with his service, and to be fair some good experiences still. Even if they are about equal, that's still horrendous service. 50/50 whether your items come is not what you want to deal with right now. I remember a sticky about it.
Link Posted: 1/25/2011 6:45:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2011 6:53:35 AM EDT by haydendavid380]
Originally Posted By raf:


Having been to an Appleseed, let me assure you that it will be worth your while. I drove about that distance, and rented a cheap motel room to boot. Worth every penny I spent, and more.

I practiced beforehand, mostly in the snow, and I made Rifleman on the first try. Some folks didn't, but that is not unusual, either.

Get "Fred's Guide to Becoming a Rifleman", some targets, and a very good copy of the GI shooter's coat in a package deal from fredsm14stocks.com––Click on "Latest" on the left of the page and scroll down a ways.. The Guide contains a LOT of info on the M1A rifle, and a ton of shooting tips. I bought the package, and it is a great deal if you read the Guide and PRACTICE. The shooting coat comes in mighty handy, and you can take that to the bank, too.






Just did some checking, and there is an Appleseed event about an hour away in Michigan. I plan on heading up there once the weather warms up a bit

ETA- What are the requirements for rifleman? Also is there higher levels, i.e. Sharpshooter and or Expert?
Link Posted: 1/25/2011 6:50:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/25/2011 8:44:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By haydendavid380:
Originally Posted By raf:


Having been to an Appleseed, let me assure you that it will be worth your while. I drove about that distance, and rented a cheap motel room to boot. Worth every penny I spent, and more.

I practiced beforehand, mostly in the snow, and I made Rifleman on the first try. Some folks didn't, but that is not unusual, either.

Get "Fred's Guide to Becoming a Rifleman", some targets, and a very good copy of the GI shooter's coat in a package deal from fredsm14stocks.com––Click on "Latest" on the left of the page and scroll down a ways.. The Guide contains a LOT of info on the M1A rifle, and a ton of shooting tips. I bought the package, and it is a great deal if you read the Guide and PRACTICE. The shooting coat comes in mighty handy, and you can take that to the bank, too.






Just did some checking, and there is an Appleseed event about an hour away in Michigan. I plan on heading up there once the weather warms up a bit

ETA- What are the requirements for rifleman? Also is there higher levels, i.e. Sharpshooter and or Expert?


As far as Appleseed is concerned, Rifleman is the highest; its anything over 210 out of a possible 250.
And its is tough goal for some, but well worth the effort it took to get there.
Rob

Link Posted: 1/27/2011 4:09:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2011 4:11:00 AM EDT by HaveBlue83]
NICE pickup. I am looking to grab up a scout soon. I will have to trade in my standard for it.

One day, when you have $750 and feel like going EVIL, pick up the EBR stock like I wanna do



Link Posted: 1/27/2011 5:49:48 AM EDT
With regard to Appleseed, there is only one level...Rifleman. Rifleman is equivalent to an expert score on the Army Qualification Test of the 1950's.

Appleseed is really about 3 things.

1. Learn to shoot, safely and accurately, regardless of your equipment.
2. Learn about your heritage as it relates to April 19, 1775
3. Help spread items 1 and 2 throughout the nation.

If you shoot 2 Appleseeds and show you can consistently shoot a Rifleman score, you will be invited to be an instructor-in-training. If you accept this responsibility, you'll be trained OTJ at Appleseeds in your area to spread the AS message.

Look forward to having you at a shoot soon.

-David
Edgewood, NM
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 5:52:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HaveBlue83:
NICE pickup. I am looking to grab up a scout soon. I will have to trade in my standard for it.

One day, when you have $750 and feel like going EVIL, pick up the EBR stock like I wanna do

<a href="http://img233.imageshack.us/i/p478876365.jpg/" target="_blank">http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8819/p478876365.jpg</a>



Man...those EBR things are an abomination. Why would you want one? If you want a pistol gripped 308 battle rifle, get an FAL, an AR10, or a SCAR 17. The AR10 and SCAR will both be much more accurate with glass and easier to mount a scope on.

An M14 is for shooting with IRON sights. Best iron sights ever devised, in my opinion, and plenty accurate for iron. Love my LRB M14SA.

-David
Edgewood, NM
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 6:03:49 AM EDT
You got you rifle now forget that a bench and sandbags exist and learn to shoot your rifle.

I know people who have shot rifles for 50 years or more and spent tons of money on rifles and ammo but unless they have a scope, a 2,000lb concrete bench and sandbags they can't even hit the backstop.

These people know NOTHING about shooting. All they are good for is running their mouth at the gun shop.
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 6:04:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HaveBlue83:
NICE pickup. I am looking to grab up a scout soon. I will have to trade in my standard for it.

One day, when you have $750 and feel like going EVIL, pick up the EBR stock like I wanna do

<a href="http://img233.imageshack.us/i/p478876365.jpg/" target="_blank">http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8819/p478876365.jpg</a>




$750 buys a lot of mags and ammo, er... uh well mabey not a lot, but you get the picture.
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 6:28:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 5:22:32 PM EDT
I've read the sticky with the zeroing information but I'm a little dumbfounded by it. What's the number the start with on the elevation dial? Also, does anyone have ballistic information worked out for the 18 inch barrel?
Link Posted: 1/27/2011 8:02:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By haydendavid380:
I've read the sticky with the zeroing information but I'm a little dumbfounded by it. What's the number the start with on the elevation dial? Also, does anyone have ballistic information worked out for the 18 inch barrel?


Usually the 100 meter zero is about 8 clicks from the bottom. +/-2

Your 25 meter zero is the same as your 250 meter Battlesight zero.

-David
Edgewood, NM
Link Posted: 1/28/2011 12:05:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 11:45:45 AM EDT
I think i found some decent ammo at a local show, $35 a bandolier for Radway Green 7.62x51 with mid 90's headstamp dates.

Can't wait to try it out
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 12:27:31 PM EDT
A wood stock is okay but be on the look out for a good synthetic GI stock. Then you won't have to worry/wonder about moisture affecting your wood stock.

Get a good GI web sling. Some folks like the cotton slings over the nylon slings but either one will work just fine.

If you can use the iron sights then learn to use them first before buying a scope mount and scope for the rifle. If your scope ever fails you'll be glad to know you know how to use the iron sights.

And as suggested above, get to an Appleseed and learn how to use your rifle under field conditions. If you even need to use that rifle to protect yourself/family or to deer/hog hunt with you'll find there's no benches around.

Yes, a good bolt action will usually be more accurate but a good bolt action won't put as many rounds on the target(s) as quickly as your new M1A.

Don't worry about ballistics tables - shoot your rifle at real distances (if you can find a range that has shooting out to 400 or 500 yds) and find out where your rifle hits with the ammo you will use. Nothing like shooting at longer ranges to really give you confidence in your rifle and yourself.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 10:50:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2011 10:53:42 AM EDT by rabidus]
I'd get a NM spring guide, smoothed out my action.

Sadlak industries is great



And their tactical release latch, makes magazine changes a little easier.



I'd also recommend a small replacement parts kit springs etc...

Easy replacements for your rifle.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 1:24:52 PM EDT
Lotta good info in this thread.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:28:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Lotta good info in this thread.


Agreed.
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