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Posted: 8/27/2008 12:19:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2008 5:10:09 PM EDT by panther308]
Okay here is the deal
I have only been reloading for a short time and really enjoy it, I started off with 9mm and then moved on up to .308
I have had tons of questions answered here and in the reloading books I have gotten.
I have had very good success working up loads for both but I was at the range today and there were some guys there that shoot high power competition that told me if I seated my bullet deeper my groups would tighten up ?

This is what I have
BH Brass sized and trimmed to 2.005" FL Size
150 H3037 w/ cannelure
43.8 gns of IMR 4895
Federal 210 primer
COAL 2.780" +/- .003

They said if i seated to 2.770" I would have better results as the round was designed to be seated at the cannelure and I would not have to change the load

I had read and heard here the some bullets prefer to be jammed to the lands and some prefer to jump to the lands so I am confused

Thanks
Link Posted: 8/27/2008 2:28:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2008 2:54:31 PM EDT by vernm2]
Since your powder charge is not max according to the Hodgdon Reloading Data Center, IMO you could safely seat the bullet a little deeper without concern.  If you were at max load, I would not seat deeper without dropping the load a little and certainly would drop the load if I were going to now seat into the lands.

I would load 15 rounds at 2.775", 15 more at 2,770 and 15 at 2,765. Shoot three five shot groups with each load and make your own decision.  When it comes to bullet seating depth, there are some general rules that have evolved from experience.  But only your rifle can tell you what it likes best.



Edited for spelling
Link Posted: 8/27/2008 4:56:16 PM EDT
I was thinking about going .010 or each side of the 2.780 but I had heard that the bullet may not be seated deep enough to develop adequate pressure so now i am really confused
Link Posted: 8/27/2008 5:58:05 PM EDT
I want to assume you have a tested load that does not hit the lands of the barrel and magazine length limits you to a max 2.800" OAL.

Given that,

You could try three rounds of each OAL you mentioned (ten thou under, same for control, ten over) and then ten thou more over to 2.80 OAL.  Shoot the short ones first since your pressures will probably be lower with the shorter rounds.  If your OAL gets close to the lands the pressure should go up and you could see signs like flattened primers.  

If pressures don't go up you might see a difference in accuracy that you can work on.

You can use the most accurate OAL to test the powder charge again by varying the powder charge by a tenth of a grain or two with your best OAL.

P.S.
Don't increase the powder charge if you see pressure signs with your accurate OAL.
Link Posted: 8/27/2008 6:04:56 PM EDT
Take a fired case. And then run it up in the sizing die such that only 1/2 of the neck gets sized. Then take the intended bullet and seat said bullet to 3.000" in OAL.

Now take this unpowdered unprimed load and then carefully chamber the case and lock the bolt. FInally, with as much gentleness as you can extract the bullet laden case, and measure the OAL.

Do the above about 10 times and you will have a nice accurate load length that just touches the lands.

My guess is that unless you have a special chamber that the OAL will be above 2.900

It has been my experience that unless you are compressing the powder as the bullet gets rammed home, AND you are far from the lands (above) then little variations (0.005-0.010) in the jump are pretty insigificant wrt group size. Now when you are close to the lands, some bullets like to jump and some don't, and some others don't seem to care.
Link Posted: 8/28/2008 10:25:13 AM EDT
Well after looking at several manuals I have i decided to make (15) of each of the following COAL'S
2.770, 2.780, 2.790 and 2.800 all with Federal 210 and 43.8gns IMR 4895 and a H3037 bullet, I have been looking at the SMK 150's for my next loads to see if they perform better but then it's back to the drawing board
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 3:32:17 PM EDT
Update!!!!!

Well I just got back from the range today and have a question, first off I have only been reloading for a couple of months and still have a ton to learn.
I have a Savage 10 FLP with a 24" bbl and a 1 in 10" twist
I have been reloading in BH brass trimmed to 2.005" and followed all the case prep, I then charged all with 43.8gns of IMR 4895 and used a Fed 210 primer along with a H3037 Hornady bullet from Wideners, this load has done well in my workup (started off at 40.5 and worked up to 46.5) found what I thought was the "sweet" spot at 43.8, actually 43.6 and 44.0 did just as well so I picked the middle
I was pleased with this load until some High Power guys suggested I seat to the cannelure as this would yield better results so I made  up some rounds starting off at 2.740"(Ctr of cannelure) -2.800' going up  .010 at a time and off to the range.
I had heard that there would be minimal differences in accuracy and I had accepted that, I was grouping okay but  my groups had opened up and then I have (5) rounds left of varying OAL (2) at 2.740" (1) at 2.800 and (2) at 2.770
and this is how I finished my day with (5) rounds of what I would call a wide spread of OAL



Can someone explain to me how this happened, I wish i could shoot like this all the time.


I still have quite a few of the 3037's but thought I would switch over to a 150 SMK as these bullets are not perfect but don't look bad and are not match
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 6:02:55 PM EDT
BTT
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 6:22:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2008 6:24:56 PM EDT by innocent_bystander]
Try 168 Sierras or Noslers. I'm sure your groups will shrink some. Although, the rifle isn't shooting too bad now.

Usually, the thicker the bullet jacket the better the bullet wil jump. Sierras are known for their ability to jump.

Lots of guys get caught up in this quest for accuracy out of production rifles. I think it's a waste. Personally, I would find a load that shoots 1/2-3/4 MOA with readily available components and a powder that can be thrown and not trickled and call it a day. Then get off the bench and out in the field with the rifle at extended ranges and have some fun. Learn to call the wind. Learn to shoot well from different positions.
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 6:26:56 PM EDT

I have had very good success working up loads for both but I was at the range today and there were some guys there that shoot high power competition that told me if I seated my bullet deeper my groups would tighten up ?


IMHO.......every rifle is a story unto itself.  

Go ahead and experiment a little.

Aloha, Mark
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 6:52:16 PM EDT
I am shooting this load off of a bipod, prone with no rear support, I just went thru my inventory and found I am getting low on the 3037's so I may try the 150 SMK's but then i get to start the load over
Link Posted: 9/3/2008 6:36:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2008 6:38:01 PM EDT by number40Fan]
You don't want to shoot like that all of the time, you want to shoot better.  

What is the furthest distance you plan to shoot?

Depending on the distance you plan to shoot you can make your bullet choice easier.  If you plan on short range work, I would say to get some 125 grain Speer TNTs.  They are very good short yardage workers in my Savage.

I normally start off working on a powder weight with the bullet .010" off the lands.  Keep that and everything else the same and only change powder weight.

Can I also suggest picking up some RE-15 and/or Varget.  With the bullet weight you are using now, you will be looking in the ~45 grain range for each powder.  Be safe and work up though.
Link Posted: 9/4/2008 4:01:49 AM EDT
Someone else suggested Reloader 15, said it was a excellent powder for .308
In regard to the distance it is mostly 100yrds as the club I belong to only has that and I have to make due
Link Posted: 9/4/2008 8:21:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2008 8:22:51 AM EDT by FriscoPete]
Your "bench" technique (or rather lack of) is impacting your groups more than your reloading tweaks.  You got to get a more solid setup if you want to start testing the load and rifle rather than yourself.
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