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4/18/2021 9:59:29 PM
Posted: 4/14/2017 1:19:18 AM EDT
And I can't get it out of my head that was fucking awesome.  Went to knob creek and shot the following  M-240, G-18, AK-47, MP-5, M-14, Saiga 12 gauge, MG-42, and a PKM.  I mean how do I go about a normal life now knowing the gun of my dreams is like waay out of my budget lol.  Whats the next machinegun shoot? I know theres one in October at knob creek but dunno if I can wait.  What guns would you guys recommend adding to my list? I'm definitely gonna shoot the G-18 and PKM again .  Just for shits and giggles what does a transferable PKM go for?
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 4:48:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 7:38:25 AM EDT
That's an impressive list of MG. I know the feeling though, a few years I started watching people shooting MGs on YouTube and got addicted. With help from nice folks on AR15.com i setup a trust bought an M16 without having ever fired a full auto firearm in my life

I'm not aware of any transferable PKMs on the market, if there are any I'm sure the go for quite and bit.

There might be other MGs within your budget. A Mac 10, sten Or reising can be had for $6k and $12-15k can get you a Transferable lighting link to convert your existing AR15 collection.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 8:27:18 AM EDT
I'm probably gonna shoot some in my budget machineguns next time.  But the way it stands now I really only want a belt fed or a glock 18.  Think I'm just gonna bring a lot of cash and shoot the hell outta that PKM.  I got lucky to shoot the MG-42 they were having trouble with it and I jumped in with I'd test it and they let me run a belt and that was freaking awesome as well.  Feel like I owe that old dude a beer he was cool as hell.  I got done shooting the PKM and said it was way cooler than the M-240 and he just agreed and started bragging about the PKM.  M-14 was the only one I thought was kinda hard to control.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 9:30:13 AM EDT
Come on down to the Oklahoma full auto shoot , should be coming up soon .
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 10:04:21 AM EDT
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Quoted:
I'm probably gonna shoot some in my budget machineguns next time.  But the way it stands now I really only want a belt fed or a glock 18.  Think I'm just gonna bring a lot of cash and shoot the hell outta that PKM.  I got lucky to shoot the MG-42 they were having trouble with it and I jumped in with I'd test it and they let me run a belt and that was freaking awesome as well.  Feel like I owe that old dude a beer he was cool as hell.  I got done shooting the PKM and said it was way cooler than the M-240 and he just agreed and started bragging about the PKM.  M-14 was the only one I thought was kinda hard to control.
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Belt fed MGs are very expensive. Even the semi auto versions that don't have NFA/Hughes Amendment rarity are costly

Just off the top of my head:
Semi M1919: $3k
Semi M2 BMG:$6k
Semi M249: $7k
Semi M60: $10k
Semi M240B: $13k
Semi Hk23: $12k
Semi PKM: $9k

As far as transferable models go, here are a few websites to watch for good deals on machine guns:
http://www.sturmgewehr.com
http://www.atfmachinegun.com
http://www.autoweapons.com
http://www.impactguns.com
http://www.subguns.com
http://www.onlythebestfirearms.com
http://www.davidspiwak.com
http://dealernfa.com
http://www.gunbroker.com
http://www.nfasales.com
http://mtmmfg.com
http://www.classiiidealers.com/
http://www.westernfirearms.com/
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/class-iii-full-auto/
http://www.urban-armory.com/
http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_7/118_NFA_Firearms_andamp__Parts.html

Website that tracks machine gun values:
http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/

If you're dead set on a belt fed the most budget friendly options are:

1) RLL with FM9 upper
Freedom Ordnance FM-9 Belt Fed AR-15/M16 upper firing 1000 round 9mm belt


2) Same with a Shrike/MCR upper, either way you're talking $15-20k for the setup.

3) A transferable M1919 can be had for around $15-20k, they aren't quite as "tactical" but still awesome.

The cheapest modern belt fed would probably be a M60E6, but that will run you $35-40k + $5-8k for the E6 kit.

If those numbers are making your head spin, consider building a semi-auto M1919 from spare parts, attach a crank to it and you can easily achive MG rates of fire. Might be enough to scratch that beltfed MG itch, save you tens of thousands of dollars and makes for a awesome display piece.

Also, high capacity drum mags can give you 100 to 150 rounds with a single trigger pull and make for a good LMG setup.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 10:29:22 AM EDT
I've been waiting anxiously for the Oklahoma OFAST shoot. Never fired a MG myself either, but I'm planning on selling some more toys off to fund the future MG collection.

MG42, Thompson M1A1, MP40, 1919A4, MP5, M16, M2 50BMG, Sten, Grease gun, PPSH, UZI. That's my list/order I'm hoping to get to try out and potentially acquire.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 10:41:15 AM EDT
what about those 08-15 german guns from WWI ?

I think those are around $12k


OP, you should try out some of the low cost options.

Once the initial novelty of shooting full auto wears off, you're going to want to do some target shooting with your full auto gun.

plus you're going to need a place to shoot.

So you should think along those lines, sort of zero in on guns that can be shot accurately, have a lot of spare parts and magazine availability, shoot cheap ammo, can be shot at a local range, etc.

That's the beauty of a gun like the UZI, M16 or Thompson.  They are very accurate guns, you can shoot at targets 150 yards out with them and make hits.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 10:46:05 AM EDT
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Quoted:
I've been waiting anxiously for the Oklahoma OFAST shoot. Never fired a MG myself either, but I'm planning on selling some more toys off to fund the future MG collection.

MG42, Thompson M1A1, MP40, 1919A4, MP5, M16, M2 50BMG, Sten, Grease gun, PPSH, UZI. That's my list/order I'm hoping to get to try out and potentially acquire.
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Good list.

I cannot say enough good things about the M1A1.  What a bad ass weapon.

There is something hugely gratifying about pouring 45 slugs onto a target.

You can be an expert with that gun the day you buy it, it's one of those guns that points perfectly.

plus it has the WWII pedigree, it's a tip top historic artifact.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 11:08:42 AM EDT
KCR is very worth the trip.  Been multiple times.  

I was there too.  I did not shoot anything though.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 12:36:19 PM EDT
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Quoted:
what about those 08-15 german guns from WWI ?

I think those are around $12k


OP, you should try out some of the low cost options.

Once the initial novelty of shooting full auto wears off, you're going to want to do some target shooting with your full auto gun.

plus you're going to need a place to shoot.

So you should think along those lines, sort of zero in on guns that can be shot accurately, have a lot of spare parts and magazine availability, shoot cheap ammo, can be shot at a local range, etc.

That's the beauty of a gun like the UZI, M16 or Thompson.  They are very accurate guns, you can shoot at targets 150 yards out with them and make hits.
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Agreed, unless you have your own private 100+ yard range in your back yard, owning a belt fed can be a real head ache, especially the larger ones that are fired off tripods. I cant even think of a range near me that would let me setup a large belt fed weapon. Even if you could its pretty much a pray and spray kind of firearm. Then there is the hassle of loading belts, and the cost as you will shoot through way more ammo with a belt fed than a mag fed MG and the larger guns shooting 308, 7.62R, 8MM, 50 cal, etc...that stuff varies from $0.50 to $3.00 a round. Very different than doing a mag dump with say an uzi, which can be as cheap as $0.15 a round for 9mm if you reload it yourself. Once that adrenaline rush of shooting a belt fed you might find that you actually prefer a mag fed firearm that is cheaper to own and easier to transport. Realistically you might only take a M1919 out to shoot once or twice a year but something like a Mac or an M16 can go with you every single trip.

EDIT: @ak47man91  I see youre from Ohio. Im in the Cincinnati area, our range selection is very limited in southwest ohio. Target world and Readyline let you shoot full auto. other than that there is Lake Bailee.

Also, Readyline has a large selection of MGs for rent. Mostly sub machine guns and carbines, might be a good idea to swing by and try a few out if you live in this part of the state.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 2:38:55 PM EDT
Thanks for all the info guys I really appreciate it.  I live by Spencerville, Ohio and I actually have a range like 15 minutes away that allows 50 and full auto lol.  The thought of dropping over $20,000 on a MG is unacceptable.  I may just keep renting from time to time when I get the urge.  I will definitely shoot the tommy, uzi, and mac 10 next time.  How much do thompsons run? Also do those crank triggers work on PKM's? Honestly that PKM made every gun I've ever shot seem lame and I used to own a 82A1.  Definitely should've shot full auto before that 50 cause I woulda never bought it full auto trumps 50 in my book.  Although I would like to shoot a Ma Deuce at some point.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 3:35:51 PM EDT
Fatmacs can be found in the $6k neighborhood. Had I sold off a few AR's back during the 2012/2013 panic I could've easily bought a PS M10. Shoulda, coulda, woulda...the time to buy is always now.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 3:46:26 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Thanks for all the info guys I really appreciate it.  I live by Spencerville, Ohio and I actually have a range like 15 minutes away that allows 50 and full auto lol.  The thought of dropping over $20,000 on a MG is unacceptable.  I may just keep renting from time to time when I get the urge.  I will definitely shoot the tommy, uzi, and mac 10 next time.  How much do thompsons run? Also do those crank triggers work on PKM's? Honestly that PKM made every gun I've ever shot seem lame and I used to own a 82A1.  Definitely should've shot full auto before that 50 cause I woulda never bought it full auto trumps 50 in my book.  Although I would like to shoot a Ma Deuce at some point.
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Thompson will run you $15-30 depending on make, model, conditon, etc...

Im not aware of a crank for a PKM, they are not a very common semi-auto, but probably easy enough to make a crank though.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 4:07:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 4:11:31 PM EDT
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Quoted:
FWIW, at James D Julia's MG auction last weekend, an MG08/15 sold for $7k. Can't get much cheaper than that for a transferable belt-fed.
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I looked into these MG08's and it seems the much cheaper price relative to other period belt-feds, or even belt-feds in general, is largely due to the lack of parts.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 4:32:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 6:15:18 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Thanks for all the info guys I really appreciate it.  I live by Spencerville, Ohio and I actually have a range like 15 minutes away that allows 50 and full auto lol.  The thought of dropping over $20,000 on a MG is unacceptable.  I may just keep renting from time to time when I get the urge.  I will definitely shoot the tommy, uzi, and mac 10 next time.  How much do thompsons run? Also do those crank triggers work on PKM's? Honestly that PKM made every gun I've ever shot seem lame and I used to own a 82A1.  Definitely should've shot full auto before that 50 cause I woulda never bought it full auto trumps 50 in my book.  Although I would like to shoot a Ma Deuce at some point.
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Thompsons run 100% all the time, like a sewing machine.  If it doesn't, then you have a bad magazine or some part needs replacement.

The Thompson is made like a metal sculpture from 100% machined billet steel parts.  That's why it cost a fortune to make and weighs 10.5 lbs.  It's the Rolls Royce of MGs.

The original Colt Thompsons came with deeply polished blue finish and the wood was like a fine sporting arm.  

If you want an original pre-1945 Thompson, you are going to pay around $25k.  Unless you get super lucky.

Just a couple of years ago the original WWII M1s and M1A1s were selling for around $18k.  But I guess a few youtube videos got made and everyone decided they had to have one and the price zoomed up to match the WWII 28A1 models.



The knock-offs made in the 1970s (that say West Hurley on the side) are cheaper, they run between $15 to $20k.  The problem with those guns is that they were reverse-engineered and they have dimensional problems.

Like the 28's will eat their blish lock.  And the mag well on the m1 models is cut too shallow.  Generally you end up having some machining done and replacing the WH parts with USGI before they'll run good.

If I was buying a WH, I would get the M1 model and make sure it ran good prior to buying.  




You should consider buying an UZI at around $13k.  That is a fantastic gun, it's a sub-compact gun but it handles like a full sized SMG.  Hard to find anything bad to say about it.  Lots of parts and the magazine is a work of art.

Another good option is the MAC10.  That is actually a really well designed gun.  if you use the stock and you shoot it with both hands on the grip like a handgun, you will be amazed at how accurate it is. Very accurate, rugged and reliable gun.
the MAC suffers from two things:  1. people insisting on shooting it like an UZI, with their weak hand forward near the muzzle.  they do that in movies but it's just a very large handgun.  2. it was made by 2nd and 3rd rate gunmakers.  so sometimes you have to swap out some FCG parts before it runs 100%.  Mine was a 9mm and it was un-jammable.  It never jammed ever.

definitely look over the low cost guns, there are some really good options there.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 6:17:03 PM EDT
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Quoted:

Parts for an MG08/15 are about as common as parts for any other firearm made in 1918. But they are pretty durable and reliable once they are set up right, and it's not like you shoot them every day or use them for home defense. Pretty much anything you need can be found or fabricated ... shooting old guns is like driving old cars: Keeping them running is part of the fun.

Your Mileage May Vary.
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In WWI the german troops thought the 08-15 was mediocre

so calling something an "08-15" became the slang for mediocrity

the germans use that expression to this day

pretty nice gun for 7000


I think they sell for low price because they are a WWI gun and they are ungainly looking

MG prices are all about coolness and bad-assery
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 7:25:09 PM EDT
The Maxim 08-15 is about as un-tacticool as a gun could possibly be. They do look ungainly, have no rails, and contain no MIM or plastic parts. You can't even install a 10 position stock or a GPS-mega beacon on one, anywhere! They are just an indestructible, forged steel and wood, no nonsense, brutally-efficient, lean mean killing machine from a bygone era where results, not fluff mattered.

I don't own one, but do admire them...
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 7:25:59 PM EDT
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Quoted:



Good list.

I cannot say enough good things about the M1A1.  What a bad ass weapon.

There is something hugely gratifying about pouring 45 slugs onto a target.

You can be an expert with that gun the day you buy it, it's one of those guns that points perfectly.

plus it has the WWII pedigree, it's a tip top historic artifact.
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Trouble is finding a M1A1 for sale. Most I've seen recently are M1 Thompsons. Going to hold judgment until the Oklahoma full auto shoot, but unless I find a MG42 in the $40k range, it'll probably be a Thompson for me!
Seems MG42s are very rarely up for sale. To the point where I think I may have to sell some other toys/properties and just keep $40k on hand for one.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 7:58:13 PM EDT
If the two you are considering buying are the Thompson and the MG-42, I would definitely recommend firing both before buying either.

The Thompson is a heavy, controllable "bullet-broom" firing pistol cartridges. They are what I call a "popper", due to the low power/relatively low cyclic rate/high weight making it very tame and controllable. They are almost peaceful to shoot.

The MG-42 is an insane, sensory-overload, "high-horsepower", light weight "universal" belt fed machine gun. They fire the full power 8x57mm Mauser round at an extremely high cyclic rate. The MG-42 is NOT a "popper", it is a "shredder".

There really aren't two machine guns more different from one another than these two are. Not that there is anything wrong with either one, they're just very different in every way possible. It all comes down to what you want to own, what is available when you want to buy, and what you can afford with your MG budget.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 8:11:13 PM EDT
I'm going to be the odd man out, and recommend that OP buy a bumpfire stock

They're not a whole lot of money, are very easy to use, and will get you a similar end result to an MG without costing as much as a new truck.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 8:17:39 PM EDT
The only way I would ever buy a new truck would be if I won the lottery. I just can't afford to blow that much money on an object that will lose such a large percentage of its value so quickly.

Machine guns, on the other hand, just keep going up, Up, UP in price.
Link Posted: 4/14/2017 9:17:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 1:41:25 AM EDT
A cheaper alternative to the German 08/15 Maxim is the Russian 1910 Maxim.
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 7:47:10 AM EDT
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Quoted:
A cheaper alternative to the German 08/15 Maxim is the Russian 1910 Maxim.
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Sure, if you buy one in semi-auto.  

Transferrable 1910 Maxims are about $18K+.
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 10:31:08 AM EDT
I'm glad you enjoyed the experience. 

It really is a very addicting hobby.

Btw, there is absolutely no such thing as a factory transferable G18.

Also, until someone presents proof of provenance proving otherwise, I'd also say there is no such thing as a transferable PKM.
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 11:23:23 AM EDT
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Quoted:
FWIW, at James D Julia's MG auction last weekend, an MG08/15 sold for $6.9k. Can't get much cheaper than that for a transferable belt-fed.

Link to the auction item
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While that particular example is indeed below the bottom of the price range for those guns, I took a closer look and it seems a bit misrepresented.  I have the feeling that is was minimally an S&H parts kit used to restore a different gun or perhaps even something else.  In any event, I'd say the final price says that I'm not the only one to see something off.  My copy of The Devil's Paintbrush is in storage somewhere after my last move and there aren't enough pictures to see what's really going on, so I'll leave it there.  These guns would normally go for several thousand more, but are still the cheapest belt feds around.

I do expect the 08/15s, particularly those left in 8mm, to have low cost appreciation rates.  The cheap 8mm is gone and the Russian parts needed to easily swap them to 7.62x54r are no longer sold on the retail market.

And OP, don't make a belt fed your first gun.  Pay close attention to where you can shoot and make your choice based on that.  When I lived in Nevada, I had open desert to shoot whatever, whenever 2 miles from my house.  Now that I live in Florida, ranges that allow these guns are 1-1.5 hours away, so they don't get shot to the same degree.
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 12:39:38 PM EDT
Stone Mountain MG Shoot

Here is the next shoot, eastern PA.
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 4:27:06 PM EDT
I have a Vector Uzi SMG in 22lr, 9mm and 45 acp and live about 30 or so miles from you. If you can shoot at your range might be able to let you try something different than the beltfeds. What range are you shooting at that allows select fire? I always shoot suppressed and find myself shooting my 300 blackout and 308 bolt guns more lately!
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 4:55:13 PM EDT
Get a Mac 11/9, Mac11a1 or Mac 10

They are the best bang for the buck when combined with Lage uppers and are a blast to shoot.

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