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Posted: 1/24/2009 7:26:54 PM EST
I am just starting to FL resize my first batch of 223.  I have only neck sized rifle cartridges in the past so this is my first time with FL sizing any bottle neck brass.  I am using a Lee classic cast SS press and Lee FL resizing die.  The dies are new, I disassembled and cleaned everything prior to starting.  

As per the Lee instructions I raise the ram and lower the die until it makes contact, lower the ram and screw the die in an additional 1/4 turn.  I'm using Imperial die sizing wax on the case body and Imperial neck sizing lube inside the neck.  Just a light coat with my fingers as I have always done with my pistol brass in the past.  The cases are all Winchester brass, once fired, tumbled clean.

OK, here is my question.  I am getting a slight ring aroung the base of the shoulder as seen at the red arrows in the pictures below.  Is this normal for my set up?  I have ran the die out a little and in a little and that seems to make no difference.  The ring is mostly cosmetic and doesn't appear to be so bad that you could actually feel it with your finger nail.  Is this normal?  I am doing something wrong, or do I need to get back to work sizing brass and quit knitpicking?




Link Posted: 1/24/2009 7:47:17 PM EST
[#1]
I have seen that on some of my brass. I have shot it without a broblem.
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 7:56:23 PM EST
[#2]
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 8:23:14 PM EST
[#3]
You've buckled those cases. Some rifles will chamber them, others won't.  Are you over lubing the cases? If not, try backing your FL die out a turn and see what happens.
I use a Wilson Case Gage to set my .223 FL die.
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 8:38:37 PM EST
[#4]
Quoted:
You've buckled those cases. Some rifles will chamber them, others won't.  Are you over lubing the cases? If not, try backing your FL die out a turn and see what happens.
I use a Wilson Case Gage to set my .223 FL die.


I fully agree. If you want to be sure your ammo is always going to chamber spend $20-$25 for a case gauge.
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 9:45:23 PM EST
[#5]
OK, I was able to back the die out slightly (~1/16 of a turn from where I was originally) and the cases look better now.  

Prior to that I backed the die out to the point that it was just barely contacting the shell holder and I ran a few through the press to see if they would look better.  The marks were gone but those empty cases will not chamber in my Savage bolt gun, which is the rifle I am reloading for. (the brass is from my AR)  The bolt would probably close if I forced it but I wasn't going to try.  I checked the headspace on the rifle when I bought it so I know it is OK.  

The case in the picture chambers and the bolt will close just like there is nothing in the chamber.  I trashed those few pieces of brass anyway.  Once I worked the die in to the point it would size a case that would chamber in the rifle I found that the ring is gone and the die is about a 16th of a turn out from Lee's recommended starting point.  I also have a much better feel for lubing the cases and maintaining a smooth and consistent stroke of the ram.  The ring is gone, there is a slight mark but it is not something you can feel with your fingernail.  It looks like the brass is just barely contacting the die at that point.  

Thanks for the help guys.  Now I'm off to find a case gage.  I can definitely see I'll be needing one if I am going to start loading for the AR.  

Link Posted: 1/25/2009 5:16:41 AM EST
[#6]
I'd remove the die's stem and shine a bright light inside.  See if there is a corresponding ring in the die from the machining process.  If there is contact the maker for replacement.  I've never had a die that would do that but I have had a chamber that would just like that.  I'm supposing they spun a chip around the chamber while reaming or the reamer was chipped at the shoulder.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 5:21:50 AM EST
[#7]
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 5:25:28 AM EST
[#8]
I'm no expert but I just tried to resize somee 5.56 brass using a Lee FLSD without using a case gage to check them, big mistake, I did have a Lee case gage but it only told part of the story. On almost all of them I pushed the shoulder back a hair too much and much to my suprise I had about 20 out of 300 that the head was sticking out of the base of the case gage! I'll never size a shouldered case without a case gage again.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 7:55:30 AM EST
[#9]
Quoted:
Why buy a case gage?  You used the perfect gage, the rifle's chamber and bolt.

A fixed case gage will cause a poorer fit.  An adjustable case gage such as the Hornady/Stoney point type allows a measurement of fired cases from which to set the sizer to produce sized cases with some minimal headspace.

But it's not necessary in your situation.


I can see your point above for reloading for the Savage.  

I was thinking that if I were going to load for my AR's I would want to ensure that the cases were within factory/SAMMI specs so they would reliably feed and function no matter which gun they were used in.  I could even use that ammo in my Savage too, if I needed more fire formed brass for it.

I was looking at the Wilson, Dillon, and Lyman case/headspace gauges and I see that some of them are for fired brass and some are for resized brass, and now I am more confused???

The adjustable one makes sense to me but would that be the best one for trying to reload for multiple AR's or other rifles?  

Link Posted: 1/25/2009 8:04:56 AM EST
[#10]
My first I reloaded .308 I did the same thing, and it didnt chamber in my M1A. Luckily I only did 10 rounds, then manually loaded one into the chamber, but it didnt fully slide in like a normal factory would. It stuck out into the chamber by about an inch, deffinitly not putting that through my rifle.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 8:10:41 AM EST
[#11]
1.  Scrap out this brass.

2.  Buy Hornady stoney point case gauge.

3.  Bump shoulders back .002 or .003".

Link Posted: 1/25/2009 8:12:19 AM EST
[#12]
Case Gauge Explained (pics)

http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=246702

and........

For those who don't know about it.........IMHO…………"the secret" to re-loading a bottle neck cartridge for a gas gun is to gauge your re-sized brass. There are many different brands and ways to gauge your re-loads.  

Examples……..

http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=REMTHT&type=store

This is how I do mine.

6) I use a single station press (RCBS Rock Chucker). You could use a progressive Dillon IF you wanted to. It's a personal choice. But, with whatever press you choose, consider shell plate/shell holder and/or press "flex.”  I use a regular FL size/de-capper die, NOT the small base dies. To begin, lube your cases.  Then, FL size and de-cap, 1 or 2 cases for a test. Gauge the re-sized case(s), to confirm that the "correct size" has been achieved.   I use a Forster Products case gauge (the Wilson or Dillon case gauges are also popular choices).  Insert a case into the case gauge.  The headstamped end of the case, needs to be at or between the high and low cuts on the gauge, to pass. This checks the headspace.  While the other end, is used to check if the case will need to be trimmed (a job for later on).   IF, it’s not the “correct size,” your die setting will need adjustment. Lower the ram and simply screw the die in or out a little. Don’t forget about the lock nut. Then, re-size another couple of test cases and check your work again. Repeat the test and adjustments, as needed.  When you're satisfied that your test cases are properly re-sized, do the entire lot (remember to test some cases throughout the run).


HTH.

Aloha, Mark



Link Posted: 1/25/2009 8:48:21 AM EST
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why buy a case gage?  You used the perfect gage, the rifle's chamber and bolt.

A fixed case gage will cause a poorer fit.  An adjustable case gage such as the Hornady/Stoney point type allows a measurement of fired cases from which to set the sizer to produce sized cases with some minimal headspace.

But it's not necessary in your situation.


I can see your point above for reloading for the Savage.  

I was thinking that if I were going to load for my AR's I would want to ensure that the cases were within factory/SAMMI specs so they would reliably feed and function no matter which gun they were used in.  I could even use that ammo in my Savage too, if I needed more fire formed brass for it.

I was looking at the Wilson, Dillon, and Lyman case/headspace gauges and I see that some of them are for fired brass and some are for resized brass, and now I am more confused???

The adjustable one makes sense to me but would that be the best one for trying to reload for multiple AR's or other rifles?  




If you where going to fire your ammo in multiple guns,or reload once fired brass not fired in your gun. That is why I would use a non adjustable gauge such as Wilson/Dillon. I would rather have faith that every round is going to function, and possibly sacrifice some accuracy.  
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 12:20:05 PM EST
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why buy a case gage?  You used the perfect gage, the rifle's chamber and bolt.

A fixed case gage will cause a poorer fit.  An adjustable case gage such as the Hornady/Stoney point type allows a measurement of fired cases from which to set the sizer to produce sized cases with some minimal headspace.

But it's not necessary in your situation.


I can see your point above for reloading for the Savage.  

I was thinking that if I were going to load for my AR's I would want to ensure that the cases were within factory/SAMMI specs so they would reliably feed and function no matter which gun they were used in.  I could even use that ammo in my Savage too, if I needed more fire formed brass for it.

I was looking at the Wilson, Dillon, and Lyman case/headspace gauges and I see that some of them are for fired brass and some are for resized brass, and now I am more confused???

The adjustable one makes sense to me but would that be the best one for trying to reload for multiple AR's or other rifles?  




If you where going to fire your ammo in multiple guns,or reload once fired brass not fired in your gun. That is why I would use a non adjustable gauge such as Wilson/Dillon. I would rather have faith that every round is going to function, and possibly sacrifice some accuracy.  


If I reload for one rifle only then I reload for that particular chamber. However I don't waste money on a gage for bolt actions. I use the chamber of that rifle.

When it comes to reloading for multiple rifles in the same caliber a fixed gage is the only way to go. It puts you back to SAAMI specs. I use a Wilson for my .223 and my ammo has chambered and functioned perfectly in at least a half dozen different AR's.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 2:23:11 PM EST
[#15]
If you decide to get a case gauge, look in the Tutorials for the case sizing thread.

A case gauge is used and explained there.

The difference between the Dillon and other case gauges is the Dillon is stainless steel, and the others aren't.
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