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Posted: 11/17/2008 6:17:54 PM EDT
I know alot of us have been holding out for the ACR, SCAR or both. Does anyone think we will see them in 09?
SO the question is it time to blow our dough?
If so what should I go for STG-556 or POF?
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 6:39:48 PM EDT
SCAR is supposedly shipping mid December, but at a substantially higher price than was anticipated.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 7:01:47 PM EDT
Simple fact is that we will see a SCAR and ACR - the only thing in question is if it will be the proper HSLD version we see now, or a neutered sporterized POS...

I think various Masada funds have been added to this recent tornado of panic buying, but if you want stuff now...

Get a simple LMT/Noveske/Colt/Sabre/BCM M4gery, and get all the accessories and goodies you'll want to put on your SCAR/ACR later (have the optics, BUIS, rail panels and VFGs, Sling, Mags)
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 9:14:24 PM EDT
I was going to buy a SCAR, but the price...  I might was well buy another SIG 556.  Just as good of a weapon.

FN SCAR's lower seems to be made of plastic.... Sorry but for a 2000+ rifle.. they can keep the plastic parts.  It was bad enough that the bullet feed thingy for the p2000 was plastic.... They should learn by know that sometimes plastic is not all that great. (for the 2000 price tag).

Link Posted: 11/17/2008 9:38:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2008 9:39:18 PM EDT by ALASKANFIRE]
If you dont want to wait buy what you want now.


I really dont understand why everyone is making such a big deal over these delays


I believe that both guns will make it out and unfortuneately they will cost more than 500 bucks which is what all plastic guns are worth

The ACR/SCAR threads are almost getting as bad as the Obama ones
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 7:53:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2008 7:55:30 AM EDT by AK-Joe]
Originally Posted By Crito:
I was going to buy a SCAR, but the price...  I might was well buy another SIG 556.  Just as good of a weapon.

FN SCAR's lower seems to be made of plastic.... Sorry but for a 2000+ rifle.. they can keep the plastic parts.  It was bad enough that the bullet feed thingy for the p2000 was plastic.... They should learn by know that sometimes plastic is not all that great. (for the 2000 price tag).



The AUG is made out of plastic but you don't seem to have a problem with it at $2200 over at that thread.

That is $2200 plus $35 for 30 round mags. At least the SCAR takes AR mags.

An AUG and 10 mags works out to about the same as the SCAR.

Maybe you just can't afford the SCAR and are just looking for excuses to justify hating it.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 8:11:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2008 8:46:20 AM EDT by aimpointed]
I am spending my SCAR money on a SCAR next month, and I have an XCR so I dont dont give a crap what bushmaster does with the ACR
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 8:27:40 AM EDT
The ACR won't come out in 2009, bushmaster/remington is going after .mil contracts and leaving the civies in the dust.  Maybe we will see it in 2010.  If you want a Scar get it asap.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 8:56:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2008 9:05:11 AM EDT by Crito]
yeah, show me another bullpup allowed/made into the USA, I pick that one over the AUG.

I want a Tavor, but that will never happen.   I do need a bullpup in my collection and only info for them is from ar boards.  If you know a better one, pls PM. I would be grateful.  I need it in .223.  


FN SCAR lower is plastic, and I do not feel comfortable that the lower is plastic.  If the lower breaks and there is a gun ban. I would feel S.O.L.   FN SCAR fieldstripping video showed nice guts and very cool design, best internal design for any weapon that can be bought in the civi market. but for over 2000 price range....  I rather buy a SIG.  

I can afford it, but I rather wait and see what people think of the lowers.  Maybe they can change my mind, hehehe.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 9:16:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2008 9:20:53 AM EDT by Lympago]
There's nothing stopping you if you can afford it to buying a couple spare AUG/STG-556 stocks and find them.
If I was interested in one myself I'd look and if I could buy atleast a spare than it wouldn't be a worry. I'd have a black and od green one.
I'm not in love with polymer parts either, but depending on where there used they are strong enough for the job and it's not like many people don't love their plastic Glocks. Strangely enough many don't have a problem with that.
The AR itself runs polymer furniture as do many rifles these days with little trouble unless there very heavily abused.
The AUG design has shown itself in service anyways, so it's not worth worrying about too much in my opinion.

Having been a POF AR owner there a good AR and system that makes an AR a much nicer running on some of it's most important main componets with the high heat levels removed from the situation and just like other piston action directs hot gases to the gas cylinder and piston which are robust and designed specifically to do that job alone. There also night and day in maintenance.

I'd prefer the STG-556 though if I was going to buy either myself these days. It just handles better to me and I prefer the ergo's.  

STG-556



AUG

Link Posted: 11/18/2008 10:26:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Crito:
yeah, show me another bullpup allowed/made into the USA, I pick that one over the AUG.

I want a Tavor, but that will never happen.   I do need a bullpup in my collection and only info for them is from ar boards.  If you know a better one, pls PM. I would be grateful.  I need it in .223.  

FN SCAR lower is plastic, and I do not feel comfortable that the lower is plastic.  If the lower breaks and there is a gun ban. I would feel S.O.L.   FN SCAR fieldstripping video showed nice guts and very cool design, best internal design for any weapon that can be bought in the civi market. but for over 2000 price range....  I rather buy a SIG.  

I can afford it, but I rather wait and see what people think of the lowers.  Maybe they can change my mind, hehehe.

I'm genuinely curious about all the hate toward the plastic trigger pack on the SCAR.  If you know the history of the SCAR, it was changed from aluminum to plastic at the request of the end-user (SOCOM).

I haven't seen anything similar regarding plastic on the AUG which you just stated interest in (which is used in a much more critical fashion), or the ACR/Masada (almost identical to the SCAR).  Nor have I really heard complaints about plastic Hk trigger packs.

Why do you think you would be SOL in case the trigger pack breaks, versus any other part on the rifle?

Not meaning to pick on you but I can't for the life of me figure this out as many people seem to complain about it, but I haven't seen any similar complaint about the ACR/Masada.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 11:37:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
If you dont want to wait buy what you want now.


I really dont understand why everyone is making such a big deal over these delays


I believe that both guns will make it out and unfortuneately they will cost more than 500 bucks which is what all plastic guns are worth

The ACR/SCAR threads are almost getting as bad as the Obama ones



Maybe because there is a very good chance a new AWB will be here before the guns make it to the market?????

They better get their ass into gear and finish the rifles soon! Even if there are bugs to be worked out at least we have the guns and can tweek them later. If theyare banned before we even can buy them we are fucked!

Magpul/Bushmaster and FN: GET YOUR BUTS MOVING!!!!!! IF YOU DON'T WE MAY NEVER GET A CHANCE TO BUY YOUR RIFLES!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 11:42:34 AM EDT
As far as the SCAR, I don't know. About the ACR, forget about it.

Original post by Magpul:

Everyone needs to relax and take a deep breath.

Bushmaster/Remington is working to get the ACR to compete in the M4 replacement trials and this will mean additional testing and possiable modification to the design to meet specific requests by the military.

Right now no one knows if or when there will be another ban, but the military request for an M4 replacement is real and the ACR needs to be a part of this. The Masada was a concept built to shake up the industry, with Bushmaster/Remington's help the ACR can take the establishment Euro firearms manufactuers on, head to head.

We will do everything in our power to move the timetable up but the rifle will not be released before it is ready.



In other words, "We don't care if there's going to be a civilian ban or not. We can make more money marketing this thing to the military so if you never get to see it that's too bad."
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 3:51:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2008 5:58:11 PM EDT by GLOCKCRAZZ]
$2700 for the SCAR? That can be right is it?
Well Stg-556 might be on the the way then.
Masada 08, Bushmaster ACR 08 ACR 09 before a AWB? Who knows?
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 3:52:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2008 5:58:27 PM EDT by GLOCKCRAZZ]
double tap
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 5:11:36 PM EDT
I spent part of my fund.  After seeing the substantial cost for the SCAR, I decided to help the economy with the Ronnie Barrett stimulus package.  Funny thing, the package comes in a Pelican case.
Link Posted: 11/18/2008 5:36:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
but at a substantially higher price than was anticipated.



This will be the deal with both of these––especially the ACR.  IMHO they were going to over-price them to begin with, but now they have a "plausable" reason to really jack the prices . . . . just you wait and see.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:40:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FaceTime:
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
but at a substantially higher price than was anticipated.



This will be the deal with both of these––especially the ACR.  IMHO they were going to over-price them to begin with, but now they have a "plausable" reason to really jack the prices . . . . just you wait and see.


Yep!
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 9:28:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 9:34:13 AM EDT by SilentType]
It's a gamble right now.

Sort of like taking insurance in Blackjack when the dealer shows an ACE even though you've got a good face card on the table.  

We've go the dealer "the Anti-Gun Lobby" showing an ACE with the Democratic majority (perhaps filibuster proof if Coleman and Chambliss lose) and a President Obama.

We've got a good face card on the table with the decision in Heller and the growth of the Second Amendment movement through the internet since 1994.  

So you can do the safe thing and insure that you use your money to max effect now by purchasing a currently available rifle and you get a nice new rifle, but not the one you've been waiting for.  OR you can let that money ride and hope that the dealer doesn't pull 21.  Risky? You bet.  Bigger Pay Off? Sure.

If no AWB comes down the pipe in 2009 though with the economy the way that it is heading you're going to see demand slip and with that price will start to come down on some of the more expensive rifles. You'll also see folks get overextended with this panic buying and end up having to sell like new rifles back on gun broker and the E&E here.

Other flip side if an AWB does pass (and it is only a matter of time before they make the push for one) you'll be screwed BIG time waiting for the court challenge to it that could take years to get infront of the Supreme Court.

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 3:23:16 PM EDT
Well put SilentType I never heard it put like a card game.
I understand what we are all faced with here. I guess I'm tring to get a feel for what everbody else is doing.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 3:52:04 PM EDT
OP, you really ought to look at the XCR. Unlike the SCAR, it's made by Americans, and the XCR does everything the SCAR and ACR do.

And it's available, right now, at a price that is significantly less than the Projected price of the SCAR, AUG, or ACR.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:21:28 PM EDT
I agree my 556 with 551 forends is good enough, might get a rail for it but who know?  I found a LMT piston I picked up and to be honest, it is more than I can ask for so you could say I decided to quit waiting and went LMT which has retired my 556 to the safe.  Another point on the SCAR, what will the price be in stores?  We have all seen what the other prices have done, I see allot of gouging going on with the SCAR.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:36:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
OP, you really ought to look at the XCR. Unlike the SCAR, it's made by Americans, and the XCR does everything the SCAR and ACR do.

And it's available, right now, at a price that is significantly less than the Projected price of the SCAR, AUG, or ACR.


+1 on that.  I had money put away for SCAR or ACR but decided it was time to direct it at something that was available now.  If the others come out I'll just have to save again I guess.

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 6:18:37 PM EDT
Guys who are waiting........get an XCR now! It is a sweet shooter!
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 7:13:30 PM EDT
I already have a the XCR and the SIG 556. Both are great shooters.
With the Scar at 2700 and the ACR still vaporware at this point the STG-556 seems to be my next rifle. I guess I'll have the save up for the ACR if ever comes out.
Who is really knowingly going to get price gouged for the Scar?
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 7:30:33 PM EDT
A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

Buy now - Sig 556, XCR, STG-556, POF, AR-180.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 9:10:27 AM EDT
I would imagine that it isn't availability issues most are worried about on the SCAR but rather that silly price.  There is no reason that gun can't be made with a good profit margin for $1,600 MSRP.  A grand over that is just dumb.
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 10:05:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Accomplice1:
I would imagine that it isn't availability issues most are worried about on the SCAR but rather that silly price.  There is no reason that gun can't be made with a good profit margin for $1,600 MSRP.  A grand over that is just dumb.


Exactly!
It's called price gouging which some folks on here insists does not exist.

Link Posted: 11/20/2008 2:24:16 PM EDT
I dont know which one I will buy at this point...........
Link Posted: 11/20/2008 3:33:03 PM EDT
I dont' suppose anyone has any idea just how many FNH SCAR L rifles are being released for initial distribution?

If they plan to do a very limited civilian production at first I might be able to buy the SCARL MSRP even if I still will not like it.  However, if they've are churning out rifles like crazy then what is it the fact that the U.S. Dollar is weak and they have to make the a lot of the parts over in Europe? IF that is the case FNH might want to do all their production here in the US and take advantage of the cheaper labor costs.

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